Should we all be scared?


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RKBABob
November 3, 2008, 12:59 PM
OK, I'll try to keep this as non-political as possible... please do the same.

With all the claims of 'change' coming from both major parties, and rumors of increased sales at gun and ammo dealers... How does everyone feel?

Should we be worried (more than usual) about the right to bear arms?

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BHP FAN
November 3, 2008, 01:02 PM
um,YES....

foghornl
November 3, 2008, 01:05 PM
Not so much the political issue, as the fact that the economy is going very badly right now....businesses closing...layoffs...mergers. I have already seen a major uptick in violent crime here in Greater Cleveland. National City Bank being bought by PNC, deal now (maybe) under Congressional Investigation. Crime usually goes up some in Cleveland every year about this time, but I am talking MAJOR rise.

TWO armed robbery cases on/at the edge of the VA Hospital property (Wade Park Facility) within the last 10 days...Idjit tries robbing a pet store via the knife method...Smash & grabs happening...have heard gunfire in the area around work, but can't identify the exact location, other than nearby.

Things ARE scary right now.

testify4
November 3, 2008, 01:05 PM
I am more concerned about gun and ammo prices going up because of panic buying right now.

I'm hopeful we will have some pro-RKBA leadership. If some less-than 2A friendly candidates make it in, I hope our system balances things out with some NRA A-rating folks.

Went to the range yesterday and there were more people out than usual. That made me feel good.

acn001
November 3, 2008, 01:06 PM
IBTL... If those goes on for more tha a page imma be pissed. This is like the 5th thread asking the same question that I asked first.

98C5
November 3, 2008, 01:06 PM
The gubment has bigger fish to fry right now. Gun control is a back burner issue IMO.

22lr
November 3, 2008, 01:06 PM
Maybe the statements by the two goof balls who are running on the democratic ticket like "the idea of banning guns is an idea whose time has come" um ya lets just say nothing good is going to happen. I bought high cap mags for all my guns last gun show, along with a boat load of 9mm ammo.

Treo
November 3, 2008, 01:09 PM
There's a good book out called You And The Police out from Javelin Press that kind of addresses the issue and lists some references. It was written under the psuedonym Boston T Party.

Good read

Oh, and while I'm at it
IBTL :D

BHP FAN
November 3, 2008, 01:11 PM
Ibtl?

RKBABob
November 3, 2008, 01:13 PM
IBTL... If this goes on for more tha a page imma be pissed. This is like the 5th thread asking the same question that I asked first.

Well, acn001, it was just such a darned good question that its worth repeating!:neener: Seriously, if someone already put up a poll to gauge the panic level of THR members, then I do apologise.

3pairs12
November 3, 2008, 01:13 PM
I voted I don't know what to think because I believe the answer is somewhere between terrified nd no, much closer to terrified though.

rbernie
November 3, 2008, 01:17 PM
Terrified is the wrong word. But yes, your SpideySenses should be tingling pretty good right about now....

RKBABob
November 3, 2008, 01:21 PM
Ibtl?
In Before The Lock?

Uh oh, :uhoh: am I annoying the mods?!?! :neener:

I did add the following disclaimer to my OP:
OK, I'll try to keep this as non-political as possible... please do the same.

Mt Shooter
November 3, 2008, 01:47 PM
ibtl

X-Rap
November 3, 2008, 02:02 PM
The free news is reporting and playing the interview about how one candidate wants to break the coal and power plant industry. I think the main use of our poor economy will be to highlight how they need to disarm the public for the "general welfare" I also expect to hear that phrase often.
Gotta have something for the new Civilian Security Corp to do.

Deanimator
November 3, 2008, 03:19 PM
I voted "don't know what to think", but I DO know what to think and DO. Be prepared, no matter what happens. If you haven't, decide what's REALLY important to you.

And if the worst comes to worst, do not compromise, do not surrender, resist.

CountGlockula
November 3, 2008, 03:29 PM
Let's just say, you'll be kicking yourself a year from now.

Harley Quinn
November 3, 2008, 03:36 PM
Deanimator.
I second that.

HQ

RoosterCT
November 3, 2008, 03:41 PM
Will there be another AWB if BHO is elected? I can't see why not.

Do we have a decent amount of time before it would become law? Yea.

One could only hope that we don't have price gouging BEFORE there is a law.

hso
November 3, 2008, 03:42 PM
Should we be worried (more than usual) about the right to bear arms?


Should we worry more than "normal" about RKBA?

Dunno, I don't have a magic mirror or crystal ball.

These are unsettling times and that makes people worry about a lot of things, but we'll know very soon whether we have less to worry about than we do right now.

ArmedBear
November 3, 2008, 03:44 PM
We should ALWAYS expect that politicians will try to take any and all of our rights away, a bit at a time, or a lot at a time if there's an opportunity.

(That's the 2008 translation of the late-18th-century, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.")

Those in power tend to see personal benefits in amassing more power, and no benefit to giving it up. Politicians are humans, motivated by the same things as any other humans. Sometimes, these are base motivations.

The words "public servant" are a joke. Don't forget it.

RP88
November 3, 2008, 03:45 PM
I don't know what to think, since none of what we're afraid of seems to have been reared yet. No new AWB, no bills against gun rights, nothing against the Heller decision, etc.

It's kind of like waiting in the fog of war after a firefight that you managed to win. You know that they're regrouping, you know that they're still out there, but you don't know how close or far away, or if they'll be coming back at all before you get a foothold.

Time will tell.

I guess the only difference between now and 1994 is just how focused Clinton and the democrats were on gun control. They FORCED the bill through, just to win by one vote. Will BHO - or any others - have the time or see it as worth the effort? Who knows.

once again, time will tell.

RockyMtnTactical
November 3, 2008, 03:56 PM
I am a fairly optimistic person, but I don't want to take any chances. I would error on the side of "we should be scared", or more appropriately, "prepared".

BBQLS1
November 3, 2008, 04:29 PM
voted yes for the hilarity of it.

KINGMAX
November 3, 2008, 04:41 PM
Desperate people do desperate things. Hard times are upon us.

Squeaky Duck
November 3, 2008, 04:46 PM
With all the bad economic events driving crime up and the fact that Democrats have a strong chance of gaining control and taking our guns rights away, you better believe I am scared. Every democracy that has ever existed usually only lasted 200 years or so. That's scary.

Better stock up on all the ammo you can get for your guns.

pbearperry
November 3, 2008, 04:49 PM
I think the next few years will be a challenge for sportsmen and gun owners.Keeping that in mind,I still won't be able to see my neighbors house for all the fence sitters still being there.

pbearperry
November 3, 2008, 04:52 PM
Are the Police here changing?Yes they are,Police Departments always do what the General Public wants for the most part.If we keep voting in Liberal Pinheads,we will continue to have more Govt. control.That's the way it works.

nwilliams
November 3, 2008, 04:57 PM
I'm not worried.

Call me crazy but I just think people are getting too worked up over this whole thing. If Obama wins (which I think is likely) there are going to be more immediate issues for him to deal with than gun control.

I like to maintain an optimistic frame of mind.

Darthbauer
November 3, 2008, 05:06 PM
Someone kinda already asked this but i will ask again since no one said anything,


What kinda time line is there on how long it would take to get another AWB or ammo restrictions passed?

Joe Demko
November 3, 2008, 06:02 PM
No, I'm not scared. Several reasons for that:
1. Being scared is a waste of time; I prefer to take action.
2. I'm not prone to panic buying. If I really wanted it, I already have it. If I don't have it, I can live without it.
3. This isn't 1994. Gun owners are far more active and organized now, thanks largely to the internet. The pols also have an example of how lethal antigun legislation can be to one's political career as a result of the 94 ban.

No matter who is elected, the times ahead are not going to be overly friendly to gun owners. Don't look for any EO's to be rescinded, but that never happened when we had supposedly friendly people in office, either. OTOH, don't look for any sweeping new bans. Things, I believe, will chug along much as they have for the last several years. We need to stay vigilant; but we should always stay vigilant.

ezypikns
November 3, 2008, 06:07 PM
I think the next few years will be a challenge for sportsmen and gun owners.

Join the NRA and local groups which support your 2nd Ammendment rights (or stop cpmplaining), write your U.S. and State representatives to voice your concerns (many of them DO listen), enjoy our not inconsiderable freedoms, and get your panties out of a wad.

CRITGIT
November 3, 2008, 06:12 PM
Desperate people do desperate things. Hard times are upon us.
__________________

The existing morons have created a nightmare in this country.
People aren't about to go down that road again for a long, long time. When ya ride one horse exclusively at the expense of all others you better hope he never loses a race. Did some think that one party would always be in power?:eek:

CRITGIT

daskro
November 3, 2008, 06:20 PM
3. This isn't 1994. Gun owners are far more active and organized now, thanks largely to the internet. The pols also have an example of how lethal antigun legislation can be to one's political career as a result of the 94 ban.
I think this one of the factors many under appreciate. Unlike 14 years ago we now have dozens of online communities & non-hunting shooting sports leagues that are organized and determined to not let these kind of bans to happen. The Zumbo and Cooper incidents occurred with little to no mobilization by the NRA and yet they were resolved by a fervid and active community of gun communities. I for one have faith that these communities will not allow another AWB to pass.

K3
November 3, 2008, 06:22 PM
The existing morons have created a nightmare in this country.
People aren't about to go down that road again for a long, long time. When ya ride one horse exclusively at the expense of all others you better hope he never loses a race. Did some think that one party would always be in power?

CRITGIT

I hope you are including the existing morons that have controlled both houses of Congress since 2006 as well... ;)

Based on the bolded comment, it would seem you are not.

RPCVYemen
November 3, 2008, 06:23 PM
Not worried in the slightest. Howard Dean figured out that pro-gun Democrats could help re-take the Senate.

The mid-term elections proved him right - and every Dem politician knows that.

In America, to do whatever you want to do as a "public servant", you have to win elections. Losing elections doesn't advance any of your causes. The Dems know that they have to win to govern, and they can't win w/o pro-gun Dems in Congress.

You've been listening to the NRA-ILA spin doctors too long. They area about to take a shellacking and are willing to say anything or do anything to prevent that - regardless of the truth.

Mike

ColinthePilot
November 3, 2008, 06:24 PM
I voted "I don't know." I was on the bandwagon to stock up before the election, and I was planning on buying the stuff to complete my AR build before election day. Then an unexpected bill hit on payday and the bank account is not looking good for the AR this month. I'm also staying optimistic about the election and I'm gonna gamble on the parts still being available if B.O. wins.

grilledcheese
November 3, 2008, 06:29 PM
Mai, I ain't scared, me!:cool:


Brought to you by CRAPP
Cajun Revolutionaries Against Pinhead Politicians

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 3, 2008, 06:32 PM
I'm not scared.

I'm only a bit concerned.

Did I "stock up?" Not really.

ezypikns
November 3, 2008, 06:37 PM
Mai, I ain't scared, me!


Right?

mljdeckard
November 3, 2008, 06:49 PM
No.

Think about it. They KNOW, that the single biggest factor that caused the infernal revolution in 1994 was the AWB. They don't want that to happen again. IF they win, they will have a very narrow timeframe to take advantage of the majority in both houses, and they need to choose their fights carefully. If they pick the wrong one, they will FURTHER splinter their own party, and confirm everyone's suspicions about their REAL agenda, thus CONFIRMING what all those who are fooling themselves now are trying to ignore. This will guarantee no second term. I don't think either he or the congress will give guns any more than a cursory look before moving on to 'more important issues' during the first term.

This is an election about fooling enough of the people, for enough of the time. They can't keep the illusion up forever, by sheer nature of the process. Swing voters get buyer's remorse no matter who they vote for.

HE is Jimmy Carter, and that's bad, but just remember, we survived Jimmy Carter too.

I wish I was a gun dealer right about now.

General Geoff
November 3, 2008, 06:57 PM
Should we be scared?


Yes. Yes, we should be. (http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/10/30/obama-audio-i-want-to-ban-concealed-weapons-permits/)

grilledcheese
November 3, 2008, 07:06 PM
I never saw a Cajun scared of anything anyway.

Correct. A true Cajun, like a true Redneck,can most easily be identified just before his death when he can be heard exclaiming something akin to "Hey ya'll, watch this sh**!"




Jeffrey

Hk91-762mm
November 3, 2008, 07:31 PM
Think about it. They KNOW, that the single biggest factor that caused the infernal revolution in 1994 was the AWB. They don't want that to happen again. IF they win, they will have a very narrow timeframe to take advantage of the majority in both houses, and they need to choose their fights carefully.

Yomoma husain and Bidenladen will wait untill after the mid term election to pass any gun bans --THEY learned from the last time ... THEN they will have the full turnout for the second term and can play it over again--I suspect the repubs will put up a bone head again for us to vote for --NOT some young good looking well spoken concervitive to vote for! After Bob Dole they should have learned --Old timeres are not appealing to todays voters!
I have all the guns and ammo I need for shtf times--I just think gun owners will bury there guns and go play golf. Partiots are something this country is very lacking in .

Gottahaveone
November 3, 2008, 07:37 PM
I voted "Yes" but the choices were pretty extreme to one side or the other. I think it's more in line with "worried but not frantic with fear". As a side note, after months of reading post I'm about to do my very first addition to my "Ignore User" list :rolleyes:
The existing morons have created a nightmare in this country.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 3, 2008, 07:38 PM
Hear hear!:)

camslam
November 3, 2008, 07:43 PM
If you are prepared, you shall not fear.

I don't think there are any absolutes coming one way or the other for gun rights, but this next 4 years is going to be a bumpy ride that could have lasting effects for years to come.

That is reason to be a bit nervous. Get it while you can boys and girls. :)

pappy
November 3, 2008, 07:53 PM
I sure wish I could afford to stock up on guns, not because I'm worried about what's going to happen, I just want a bunch more guns! :D

Sepia
November 3, 2008, 08:00 PM
I'm of the belief that while we may not loose our rights, they sure will try to restrict them. I was in my concealed carry course the other day and every person there came for the same reason. They don't think that they will be able to get their license if they wait much longer. The store that I was at also stated that their gun sales have quadrupled in the last 4 months. I am taking the safe route and I will be prepared, but I don't think its immanent, just a good possibility. I think the scariest part of it all is that the peoples rights were stripped so quietly after Katrina, that the majority of people still don't know that anything had happened... When one side controls the media outlet, all voices are squelched.

Sepia

plinky
November 3, 2008, 08:04 PM
Not scared but anyone who has paid attention to BHO's and Biden's feelings on guns knows what he would like to do if elected. And if he were to have a big majority in Congress, we are in for long years of fighting just to slow him down.

I got prepared before the first AWB. Still am.

The media seems to be backing him like I've never seen them with ANY candidate and I'm sure they will help his agenda. Example: Obama and pals are largely responsible for Fannie and Freddie and the largest scandal of my lifetime. They are paying absolutely no price for it and in fact dumping it on Bush and McCain. This takes a near total cooperation from the major media.

Given this, I see the situation as far more dangerous than the last go round. Not to be an alarmist...

Like most liberals, he doesn't give a crap about your guns or crime rates for that matter. But he does want most of your money and he knows he has to take your guns first.

Airman193SOS
November 3, 2008, 08:06 PM
General Geoff, concealed carry permits are not within the purview of the Federal government. They are issued at the state level and at their discretion. I can't think of a way for the Democrats to justify such an intrusion into the affairs of states. Their usual excuse, the Commerce Clause, was gutted by US v. Lopez with regard to guns years ago, and that would be a spurious justification in any case.

In addition, many states have their own version of the 2nd Amendment in their own Constitutions, some of which have even stronger language. For instance, Pennsylvania:

The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

That is unequivocal. I'm interested to see how the Federal government can trump that short of passing a Constitutional amendment, which regardless of whether it makes it out of Congress will never, ever get 38 states on board.

In other words, stop worrying about it. That, at least, seems to be a dead issue.

Sepia
November 3, 2008, 08:23 PM
Airman, you are forgetting one thing.
There is one court of law where the law or your rights don't matter, and that is the Supreme Court. All it would take is a suit to be raised to the level of the Supreme court and they can "re-interpret" the 2nd amendment however they so choose.

Coal Dragger
November 3, 2008, 08:31 PM
I think we as citizens do have to worry about our 2nd Amendment rights with Democrats in control of things. Not that all Democrats are bad on 2nd Amendment issues, it's just that their leadership is.

It will take them some time to get around to doing what they want to. They will spend the first year or two wrecking the economy even more, raising taxes, and trying to socialize everything they can.

In the mean time set aside some money to buy the things you would want to have if you knew it was you last chance.

rugerman07
November 3, 2008, 08:36 PM
The recent supreme court Heller ruling is our ace in the hole. I'm not worried about it.

RX-178
November 3, 2008, 08:38 PM
The AWB isn't the threat here.

The AWB, at this point, is a bill proposed in EVERY single congress since the sunset, that is co-sponsored by no more than 4 people (Republicans, at that), is always referred to the Judicial Committee, and always dies there before even reaching the president.

President Bush even promised to sign it if it reached his desk, and it never reached his desk.

And every time they add more restrictions onto it than they did the last time. The possibility of this particular legislation passing, is essentially the same as Ron Paul's continuous proposals to get our gun rights BACK.

I'm MUCH more worried about tiny little additions to other bills. Like the machinegun ban added onto the gun owners protection act. THAT'S what worries me.

TT
November 3, 2008, 08:38 PM
Airman193SOS: concealed carry permits are not within the purview of the Federal government.

There’s nothing to stop the Feds from making carrying a concealed weapon a Federal crime. Your state permit won’t protect you.

chemist308
November 3, 2008, 08:40 PM
Remember, blackpowder arms are not registered purchases in many states. Many don't even require a drivers liscense for it. Newer blackpowder arms are relatively easy to shoot. You just have to clean them. Get one now, while you can. They can't take what they don't know you got.

.38 Special
November 3, 2008, 09:38 PM
I can't help but feel that the doomsayers must generally be on the young side. History tells us that gun owners need to be on guard during Democrat administrations. History also tells us that any losses suffered by gun owners during Democrat administrations are always incremental -- and some of this history is pretty recent, folks. Those of us who are forecasting sweeping new gun bans within weeks of Obama taking office are being, well, melodramatic, to put it politely.

An Obama win would tell us that it's time to be more vigilant, not to bury our guns and stock up the fallout shelters.

Rossshady120
November 3, 2008, 09:41 PM
****s real safe in the neck of my woods. Sales have not increased at the local wal-mart by me because i seem to be the only one buying ammo there i count the boxes. I saw alot of people at the last ISPC practice but that could of bin because of the past rain we had.

SDC
November 3, 2008, 09:46 PM
As someone from outside of your borders, I'm thinking that there's likely to be a better than even chance of some rioting tomorrow, whether it's "celebratory rioting", or "disappointment rioting"; stay safe everyone.

pyle
November 3, 2008, 09:47 PM
Let's put it like this: now isn't the time to run out of ammo. Hope everyone has been shopping! :eek:

welldoya
November 3, 2008, 11:37 PM
SDC, I'm thinking the same thing. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a big city tomorrow night. I've got a friend who works in downtown Chicago. His company is letting all the employees go early tomorrow. I'm afraid the Wednesday morning paper will be full of "incidents".

jeepmor
November 3, 2008, 11:57 PM
No, we should be prepared, well prepared.

XD-40 Shooter
November 4, 2008, 12:17 AM
I am concerned about an assault on our 2nd Ammendment rights. I give Obama about a year, to get the economy straight and possibly end the Iraq war, then we will see him come after the guns. I think another AWB is guaranteed within the next year. People that believe Obama respect's the 2nd Ammendment, are very, very gullible and ill-informed. Obama wants to regulate guns down to what he thinks we should be allowed to own, single shot 22's with a range of less than 100 yards.

Come January, when Midwayusa does their birthday sale for me, I'm loading up on hi-cap mags for my pistols, and reloading components.:D I don't trust Obama on the 2nd Ammendment as far as I can throw him, or any other issue for that matter, the man is a CON-ARTIST!

GRIZ22
November 4, 2008, 12:39 AM
General Geoff, concealed carry permits are not within the purview of the Federal government. They are issued at the state level and at their discretion. I can't think of a way for the Democrats to justify such an intrusion into the affairs of states.

They can do it the same way they did the 55 speed limit, 21 year old drinking and other things. Just tie it as a requirement to get certain funding.

I give Obama about a year, to get the economy straight and possibly end the Iraq war

His tax plan is the same as Hoover's in 1931 that drove us deeper into the Depression. No one is going to have us out of Iraq in a year. They don't want to be blamed for having to send our troops back the following year.

tribbles
November 4, 2008, 12:45 AM
I'd just like to point out one of my big firearms pet peeves:

It's spelled AMENDMENT, not AMMENDMENT.

How do you expect to persuade antis and fence-sitters if we can't even spell what it is that guarantees our RKBA?

Now, back to the apolitical discussion...

hso
November 4, 2008, 12:46 AM
Ok, this one's gone waaaaayyy off the tracks.

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