EAA Match or Stock?


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OcelotZ3
November 3, 2008, 11:05 PM
Hi All,

I'm interested in getting a pistol for possible match use. Probably in .45 but I'm open to 9mm.

From inquiries, it seems that the EAA Witness Elite Match is one of the best "bangs for the buck" out there (ha ha). While doing research, the Stock also looked interesting.

Any opinions on these or owners' opinions?

Thanks!

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saturno_v
November 4, 2008, 05:54 AM
Neither

Stay away from EAA, at least in my experience.

Horrible customer service and spotty quality.

They cannot shoot +P rounds and the 10 mm Auto version cannot shoot "real" 10 mm but only the mild loads.

everallm
November 4, 2008, 07:55 AM
EAA has a well deserved reputation for poor customer service.

The Elite range does however have a very loyal following as it appears the QC on these pistols is much better than the standard range.

There have been a number of occasions where 10 mm frames have cracked and it would appear, in general, to avoid that caliber.

The other calibers do not have this problem reported.

You can shoot +P in the pistols (avoiding the 10mm) but as with any pistol a steady diet of +P's is generally not a good idea. The "Cannot shoot +P's" comes from the usual legalese in the manual you get with most manufacturers nowadays.

You do get a lot of bang for your buck with the pistol and caliber changes for about $250 is hard to beat.

tawcat
November 4, 2008, 07:56 AM
I bought one of these a few months ago and like it. The below links show targets with out of the box results.



http://sports.webshots.com/photo/268...37552238jxAyxb

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/297...37552238ugpeZz

floydster
November 4, 2008, 09:55 AM
I have an Elite Match in 38 Super, it is a fantastic gun, as are my CZ's.
The best groups I have ever shot are thru my Elite Match.

saturno_v
November 4, 2008, 04:25 PM
EAA has a well deserved reputation for poor customer service.

The Elite range does however have a very loyal following as it appears the QC on these pistols is much better than the standard range.

There have been a number of occasions where 10 mm frames have cracked and it would appear, in general, to avoid that caliber.

The other calibers do not have this problem reported.

You can shoot +P in the pistols (avoiding the 10mm) but as with any pistol a steady diet of +P's is generally not a good idea. The "Cannot shoot +P's" comes from the usual legalese in the manual you get with most manufacturers nowadays.

You do get a lot of bang for your buck with the pistol and caliber changes for about $250 is hard to beat.


I heard the Elite range is accurate.

However, many other manufacturers, even not premium ones, specify that their products are +P rated or at least just do not say anything about it.

One example is Bersa (definitely not expensive guns)...they even attach a red plastic strip to the trigger guard when you buy them new that says in block letters "tested with overpressure round", they clearly state that their pistols are +P rated in their manuals and if you call Customer Service they confirm that.

When you call Kel-Tech they says +P round are ok occasionally but not a steady diet otherwise the life span of you pistol is significantly shortened.

Glock (manual and CS) says +P is no problem at all

Heck, even Hi-Point has a +P rating for their pistols in their web site.

EAA seems the only company (in my experience) VERY anal about this...no +P at all, otherwise no warranty.....and in their manual they have a rather idiotic blanket statement that doesn't make much sense: "DO NOT USE +P ammo or High Velocity, High Pressure Ammunition"....please define High Velocity or High Pressure...a regular 9 mm or .40 S&W round is already high pressure high velocity (for a handgun) by definition....a 10 mm Auto is high velocity high pressure too....
Their gunsmith specifically warn you against using Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Double Tap and other niche manufacturers ammo in their pistols regardless if they are loaded within SAAMI specs...EAA is the only company I dealt with that single out specific ammo companies.

Their 10 mm offering is a joke...you cannot shoot real 10 mm Auto full specs ammo otherwise you risk cracking the slide....why don't they just retire their 10 and just offer the .40???

Same for their 38 Super...the gunsmith told me "only subsonic ammo for that round"

It's easy to offer several caliber conversion in one platform as EAA does when all you can shoot safely are target loads....

To sum it up, you need to pay for your gun to be shipped back to you even for warranty repair....the only company doing that as far as I know..

All of this at the moment keeps EAA/Tanfoglio products outside of my consideration....maybe in the future if they get their act together....

Walkalong
November 4, 2008, 05:35 PM
The Witness Elite Match is a great gun.

boogalou
November 4, 2008, 08:04 PM
Their "gunsmith" is someone you do not want to take advice from. These guns are just as strong as anything else on the market and fairly easy to take completely apart and put back together. You can buy any part you need from Henning Walgren and bypass the folks at EAA.

http://www.henningshootsguns.com/

If you are the type of person who needs a warranty on a gun or unsure of fixing something yourself, do not buy a EAA product. If you want a pistol that is a great value and capable of out shooting more expensive guns, by all means look into getting one.

saturno_v
November 4, 2008, 11:54 PM
Their "gunsmith" is someone you do not want to take advice from. These guns are just as strong as anything else on the market and fairly easy to take completely apart and put back together. You can buy any part you need from Henning Walgren and bypass the folks at EAA.

http://www.henningshootsguns.com/

If you are the type of person who needs a warranty on a gun or unsure of fixing something yourself, do not buy a EAA product. If you want a pistol that is a great value and capable of out shooting more expensive guns, by all means look into getting one.

Boogalou

Some good gunsmithing can resolve a lot of problems, however, you cannot fix the cracking slides when you shoot full specs 10 mm Auto in a Witness.
It happened to a lot of people.
The slides are just too thin and weak to withstand a lot of full house 10 battering.

I had to get rid of my EAA Witness 10 mm ....

ParaElite
November 5, 2008, 01:00 AM
Don't get the newer Witness Steel in 10mm. Get the Witness Elite Match which are more solid and a lot of gun for the money. If you need work and parts go to Henning Walgren.
The original question though was .45 or 9mm I strongly suggest the Witness Elite Match. That is one heck of a pistol for the money. Got mine from Bud's Gun Shop for $467 including shipping.

OcelotZ3
November 6, 2008, 12:18 AM
So, the consensus seems to be that a Witness Elite Match in 9mm or .45 would be a pretty good deal...

Anyone shoot IPSC or IDPA with one?

browningguy
November 6, 2008, 12:42 AM
I shoot IDPA and sometimes IPSC Three Gun with a Elite Match in .40, if I was only going to shoot IDPA I'd get the 9mm for the lower recoil and faster splits. Mine has a few thousand rounds through it with absolutely no problems, I did change the standard front sight for a factory fiber optic sight though, my old eyes didn't like the black on black. My 16 year old Witness PS in 9mm has held up very well. I changed the magazine springs last year but that is all it has required, of course I don't shoot it as much as the others anymore. I wouldn't even consider using the EAA repair shop, there are plenty of gunsmiths and parts to take care of them for a long time without the hassle of calling EAA. I will say the lady that takes parts orders (mags, sights etc.) is very friendly and competent, if only she was a gunsmith.

I also have 5 BHP's in 9mm and .40, Springfield XD9, CZ 75B among other pistols. The Witness Elite will shoot inside all the others, it is the most accurate pistol you can get for under $1200-1500.

The Stock model has the DA/SA trigger, where the Match has a single action only. While it's a good DA trigger I still don't like it as much as the Match model trigger.

OcelotZ3
November 6, 2008, 02:52 AM
Thanks a lot for the info BrowningGuy!

I had heard good things about the Match but wanted some more opinions...

Would 9mm not be appropriate for IPSC?

Grayrider
November 6, 2008, 09:44 AM
Having owned several of both models, I must say I prefer the Stock to the Match. The Stock has more upgrades, and is closer to a carry sized pistol. I did generally find the Match to be more accurate despite the Stock having a much heavier barrel. I am not sure why this was. The newer Matches I have seen do not have the Super Sight. I much prefer that sight to the "Novak" style sight for range work. It is very easy to pick up, and is fully adjustable. Were I to choose one for overall use, it would be the Stock due to its versatility. If you just want to shoot at the range, the Match is a great value and in my experience a real tack driver.

John

atblis
November 6, 2008, 10:11 AM
Their "gunsmith" is someone you do not want to take advice from. These guns are just as strong as anything else on the market and fairly easy to take completely apart and put back together. You can buy any part you need from Henning Walgren and bypass the folks at EAA.


Their infamous gunsmith is also VP of the company probably part owner too. :(

Sprout
November 6, 2008, 12:23 PM
I don't know about factory CS, but Henning Wallgren (www.henningshootsguns.com) is a great source for factory and aftermarket parts, and he's also a great guy to work with.

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