Missouri companies run scared from concealed weapons


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campergeek
September 16, 2003, 12:26 AM
I would be concerned about the way this article misrepresents the penalty for carrying at a prohibited/posted location (it's only punishable with a fine if you are found out, asked to leave and refuse), if that wasn't so overshadowed by the way the companies show a distrust for their own employees and/or those visiting the company.

St. Louis Post Dispatch - Companies Prepare Weapons Policies (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/St.+Louis+City+/+County/4A6955C82C7DC00286256DA0005DF35D?OpenDocument&Headline=Companies+prepare+weapons+policies&highlight=2%2CConcealed%2Ccarry)

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sturmruger
September 16, 2003, 12:36 AM
That sounds like MN. THey have been freaking out here for 3 months now!!!

Futo Inu
September 16, 2003, 01:07 AM
Oh good, now I'm glad I switched from SBC to Ionex/Birch at the office.

Pumpkinheaver
September 16, 2003, 06:23 AM
I have a plan, when I get my permit and I see a store that tells me I can't carry there I will put my gun under the front sseat of my car and enter the store. I will then politely ask for the manager and proceed to tell him I was going to spend x amount of dollars here but you deny me my right to carry my weapon so I will be going to your compeditor even if I have to drive for 20 miles. Something along those lines.

OEF_VET
September 16, 2003, 07:59 AM
Anna Crosslin, president of the International Institute, which aids many immigrants in St. Louis, was only half-joking when she agreed the nonprofit agency might have to post "Firearms Prohibited" signs in many languages.

I see no reason why people will need to be carrying guns on the premises," Crosslin said.

Maybe because of this:

According to the most recent Bureau of Labor Statistics report, half the workplace deaths in the retail industry in 2001 were homicides, and a large majority of those - 233- were fatal shootings.

Maybe if one of those 233 people would have been armed, they'd still be alive. Or maybe so that criminals won't think that your employees are safe targets to car-jack, kidnap, rape, or murder as they leave work.

I wonder if you could file a wrongful death suit against an employer if your family member were murdered as they left work, and the employer denied them the right to carry a protective tool? Especially if the employer has publicly advertised in a newspaper article that their premises were a gun-free zone, making it a safe haven for criminals to operate. Just a thought.

Frank

El Tejon
September 16, 2003, 08:04 AM
Someone in Missouri needs to make up large "official gun-free slaughter pen area" or "criminals welcome, we're unarmed" signs in bright orange and put them up on these businesses.:cool:

DF357
September 16, 2003, 11:28 AM
"America's Center already posts a sign prohibiting guns and knives. After Sept. 11, 2001, missiles were added to the list. "

What abuncha idjits !!!!!

How about adding atom bombs, anthrax, seran gas, tanks, stealth bombers, grenades and bazookas !

Any other suggestions of what should be added ?????

Futo Inu
September 16, 2003, 11:36 AM
"After Sept. 11, 2001, missiles were added to the list. "

No Missiles Allowed eh? LMFAO! They'd better add nukes too, else some criminal might nuke the joint.

greyhound
September 16, 2003, 11:40 AM
"After Sept. 11, 2001, missiles were added to the list. "

Just to be a wiseacre, anyone in that area wanna go in and tell the manager that since you can't bring in your missle, you'll be shopping elsewhere?:rolleyes:

cordex
September 16, 2003, 11:44 AM
"After Sept. 11, 2001, missiles were added to the list. "
Well guns and knives I can live with, but they're going to make me leave my Redeye in the car?!?

Art Eatman
September 16, 2003, 01:15 PM
Rather than harrumphing, why not make up a flyer?

First, correctly list the pertinent legal requirements as to "trespass" and those on the license holder.

Then, provide some data about CHL behavior in other states where there is some historical record. Florida and Texas are good, since the FDLE and the TX DPS have both issued press releases commending the good behavior of licensees.

Face it: The problem for many is simply ignorance. So, provide some friendly education and relieve their worries.

Art

DorGunR
September 16, 2003, 01:23 PM
I live in Maryland (Kali East) so CCW is out of the question for me but I think Art Eatman has suggested the right approach to this problem.
Good luck to all you new CCW holders in Missouri.:)

Rickstir
September 16, 2003, 03:49 PM
I go to Rams games at the American Center AKA The Ed.

Last year, with hightened security mind you, I walk it with a Blackhawk fanny pack which had my binoculars. I walked right through the turnstyle without even a glance from the ticket taker.

Walked up to the club where we sit and approached two St. Louis police offiers. "Do you know what this is?" I asked. Him, nervous, "yes, but what do you have in it?" I told him about the binoculars and that no one wanted to take a look to see what I was carrying. He was pretty steamed and called his captain on his cell phone.

They still don't check everyone.

jdege
September 16, 2003, 04:07 PM
In Minnesota, all the businesses that the reporters from the Strib and the PPress seem to be hysterical, but 99.5% of businesses haven't felt the need to post.

At this point, the greatest success the repeal-conceal crowd can claim, in their effort to convince Minnesota businesses to post, is that after a long and hard fight, they won over the Linden Hills Coop - all three employees and 47 customers of them.

The "concern" exists solely in the minds of the press.

Standing Wolf
September 16, 2003, 04:46 PM
I have a plan, when I get my permit and I see a store that tells me I can't carry there I will put my gun under the front sseat of my car and enter the store. I will then politely ask for the manager and proceed to tell him I was going to spend x amount of dollars here but you deny me my right to carry my weapon so I will be going to your compeditor even if I have to drive for 20 miles. Something along those lines.

Good for you!

I'd do the same thing, except I've never seen a business in Colorado that openly displays anti-Second Amendment bigotry. I'm sure there must be some in Denver, but I don't care for the city.

Andrew Rothman
September 16, 2003, 05:08 PM
jdege covered Minnesota's situation pretty well. It's worth noting that while local store managers tend to panic, large companies at the national level have already realized that CCW doesn't pose a threat.

In Minnesota, the Target empire (Target, Marshall Fields, Mervyn's) doesn't post. Neither does KMart, Wal-Mart, any major grocery store, nor most chain restaurants like Applebee's, Friday's or the Macaroni Grill.

Many hospitals and health clinics are posted.

Very few banks posted, and several of those have since changed their mind.

Some local bars and restaurants in St. Paul posted for a while, but a string of armed robberies helped convince them that disarming the place -- and then advertising it -- was not a good idea.

Let people wail in Missouri. Pass out the "no guns/no money" cards. Be polite when you explain to managers that the sign will only keep out paying, law-abiding customers, not bad guys. Send a short, polite, well-reasoned email to corporate HQ.

You'll soon see the rest of the state realize, in the words of our local wag, Joel Rosenberg, "The sky isn't falling." In time people will wonder what all the fuss is about.

And if you feel you need to go into a posted place, go in. The worst that can happen, in the unlikely event that you don't conceal well enough, is that they ask you to leave, and you cheerfully comply. No laws broken.

Matt

TrapperReady
September 16, 2003, 05:10 PM
jdege - I think your estimate may be off. I was in Minneapolis this past summer (a month or so after the CCW change took place), and there were signs all through the downtown. I'd bet close to 50% of the businesses had some sort of sign up.

In fact, the hotel we were staying at had a sign posted about no firearms being allowed on the premises. This was a problem, as my wife and I were in town to shoot clays at the Horse and Hunt Club. After explaining the situation for the night manager, he gave me access to an appropriate safe inside the building. After talking to him for a few minutes, it became apparent that he was very much pro-CCW.

jdege
September 16, 2003, 05:32 PM
TrapperReady - where were you?

I've been all over town, and I can think of few places where there are two businesses within walking distance of each other that are posted.

TrapperReady
September 16, 2003, 06:53 PM
jdege - We were at the end of the mall (or whatever you guys call that strip downtown that limits car traffic). Our hotel was posted, as was the Marshall Fields building. When we went to dinner one night, we walked the entire length of the street (8 or 10 blocks) and the signs were fairly commonplace.

I also saw them at a couple restaurants we stopped at on the southern edge of town. Also, the entire Mall of (The) America(s) deal...

Perhaps I gained the wrong impression, but those darned signs seemed to be all over the place.

jdege
September 16, 2003, 08:53 PM
I have to say you probably did gain the wrong impression.

There were only a few areas in town where there were multiple businesses posted. Minneapolis downtown is one of them.

In all of the areas except for downtown, most of the signs have come down. Downtown, some still remain.

Yes, the Mall of America posts. As does the other two Simon Properties malls in the state.

Thinking about it, I'd say that the places a tourist is going to visit are more likely to post. Some of the restaurants downtown post, most of the nightclubs. Few of the restaurants outside downtown do.

The places locals go generally don't.

There's one small chain of convenience stores that is posting, all the others do not. None of the malls that locals go to post, the only grocery stores that post are a couple of leftist coops.

Few of the banks have posted, none of the major retailers.

The movies theaters aren't, the bookstores aren't, except for the marxist/feminist ones.

There's only one business I used to frequent that has posted - a local camera store.

I carry around the no-guns=no-money cards, but never have a chance to use them.

JohnKSa
September 16, 2003, 10:43 PM
When the TX law passed, there were signs all over the place, overnight.

Then they started disappearing. I haven't seen one for awhile except at hospitals.

Businesses who fail to see the logic of self-defense see the logic of cash.

Harold Mayo
September 16, 2003, 11:43 PM
a quote from the article:

"It's the same (policy), I suspect, of any ethical company - we prevent firearms on our site," said Mike Montague, spokesman for the drug giant Pfizer Inc.


Any ethical company will prohibit firearms, huh? What a fool. What an idiot.

Any ethical company would allow firearms to be carried by any and all who wished.

jdege
September 16, 2003, 11:54 PM
They prevent firearms?

How exactly do they do that?

Posting signs forbids firearms, but it doesn't prevent them.

sm
September 16, 2003, 11:57 PM
Standing Wolf
Art

I have done as you suggested here. Across the river they just passed a city law to ban CCW in certain portions of municipal parks. There is a 'fancy resturant' on my side of the river that is anti gun and supported openly the objection to CCW in resturants which passed here.

Ok I informed with references the various CCW from other states. I also informed said park that as is their right to inform and publicize I too can inform and suggest persons NOT frequent these places also. Many persons rent pavillions for various activities...these CAN and WILL be held elsewhere.
The resturant was also informed that as spokesperson for a party of twenty we would enjoy our meals, whilst armed at another restuarant.

Matter of principle, just educated with facts, and money not spent.

Art Eatman
September 17, 2003, 07:48 AM
I need to get some more cards made with the "No Guins" = "No $" on one side, and on the other, the info about FBI checks, training, and the question about other customers being that "certified".

Art

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