Need some help w posted business


September 16, 2003, 12:45 AM
I have been starting to run into more and more businesses that are attempting to post "No guns allowed" signs. There are a few places that I have spent allot of money and wish that they would change their misguided policy. I would love to see some letters that some of you have written to businesses that posted. I am most likely going to do some cut and paste work to get it just right. Thanks

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September 16, 2003, 01:39 AM
Why not walk in (unarmed, if that's what they insist upon) and ask the manager face to face? Politely inform him that he just lost a customer until or unless the sign comes down.

September 16, 2003, 03:10 AM
What Stickjocky said.
That has worked here, over the last few years, with a couple banks and a major food store. And other smaller businesses.

Polite, and lots of polite helpers.


September 16, 2003, 03:18 AM
Agree, polite with friends.
If a franchise, continue civility, I know a forum that helps its members with letters, email and faxes. ;)

So whom would you like correspondence sent to ? :D

September 16, 2003, 07:48 AM
I think these are a good idea! Sends a simple easy message? Maybe not as good as a personal message to the manager or owner but good!

Carlos Cabeza
September 16, 2003, 11:05 AM
It really bugs me to see the "no-guns" signs when I am shopping or dining.
I simply do not understand the logic behind restricting otherwise law abiding citizens from carrying into these establishments. The fact that the person took the time and training required, put up the "fee":rolleyes: and take the responsibility shows that he/she is of little danger if not provides security for those who choose not to carry.
UN FREAKIN' BELIEVABLE !:scrutiny: A criminal, by definition DO NOT OBEY LAWS ! I was with some co-workers a few days ago. We were out for lunch at a fine oriental pho house. I noticed a couple of plain clothed officers, wearing their weapons in plain veiw of everyone. You would not have known they were LE unless you noticed the rather small badge that was discreetly clipped to their belts. No body freaked out or even missed a bite of lunch. Must be a demographic thing. :barf: Sheep..................HHHmmmpphhh.......:uhoh:

Art Eatman
September 16, 2003, 01:29 PM
The problem is ignorance on the part of management, usually. They just don't have any knowledge of the requirements for a CHL, and no knowledge of what things are like in other states which have licensed concealed carry.

So, make up a flyer with the info: What a licensee goes through. What the track record is in Florida and Texas, whose state law enforcement agencies have lauded the far-better behavior of licensees vs. the rest of the population.

I pointed out in a letter published by the San Antonio Express that "We are your doctors, your engineers, your teachers, your cab-drivers..." or some such list of occupations.

Teach'em, don't fuss at'em. You might find some recruits to our cause.


Standing Wolf
September 16, 2003, 04:52 PM
Why not walk in (unarmed, if that's what they insist upon) and ask the manager face to face? Politely inform him that he just lost a customer until or unless the sign comes down.

Yep. I'd be sure to add that the store's competitors are going to ring up the sales he was going to make, and mention a substantial dollar amount. You can argue ethics all day long, but appeals to business people's profit and loss statements tend to produce results. If they want my dollars, they'll respect our civil rights.

That saidâ„¢, I have to confess I haven't found a business in Colorado with an anti-Second Amendment bigotry sign posted.

September 16, 2003, 06:39 PM
mmmm, I always thought those signs were broken. At least the ones I always walked by weren't working. :)

September 16, 2003, 09:24 PM
Why not explain your concern to the manager, that by posting this sign, you feel more exposed to danger? I might also wonder aloud about the company liability, if bad guys targeted his place of business because of the signs posted.

September 16, 2003, 09:51 PM
I see lots of signs that say, "No illegal or unregistered firearms allowed." Well folks...I ain't illegal. Aside all of that, unless they have the proper, Federally mandated, proper sized sign about "No Firearms," well, screw em'.

Want to see my "permit?" Pull out a copy of the Constitution.

September 17, 2003, 11:25 AM
This is the best I could come up with.

Dear Sir,

I wanted to email you and thank your for the last couple years of excellent service from your company. I have been in your store every couple of months usually buying some cables, or the occasional HD or CPU. My father who lives just a few blocks away also shops there. I regret to inform you that neither my father of I will be visiting your business anymore. On Friday I stopped at your business to purchase a 19-21' monitor. I was looking through the Computer User paper to see what kind of prices I could find on a used monitor. I am happy to report you had some of the best prices around. The good price coupled with the good service I have received in the past, I decided that Que Computers would be the place to shop.

I was disappointed when I arrived at your store because of the sign stating that you would prefer that I stay outside of your store, and not spend my money in your location. Luckily MN allows me enter your store with my protection even if you have put up a sign. I can legally enter your store and browse all day if I want. I have not violated any laws until you have actually asked me to leave. There was a really nice 21' monitor that I liked it was $199. I contemplated buying it, but after the offensive sign on the front door I decided to spend my money someplace that did not mind an upstanding citizen with a carry permit in their store.

I don't know if you understand exactly what a Carry Permit is. To get a carry permit there are many expensive hoops that I need to finish to qualify for a permit in the state of MN. There are also several legal hoops to jump through as well. I have passed a state and federal background check, I have proven my marksmanship abilities, and I have had several hours of classroom training on the laws of personal self-defense. I think one very telling truth is the fact that most large corporate retail providers such as Best Buy CompUSA, Target, Cub Foods, and Walmart all know that posting "No guns" at the entrance to their stores is not needed. In the last 3 years there has never been a permit holder arrested and convicted of a gun related offense in the entire state of Minnesota.

I regret to notify you that in the next week I am adding your business name to IT is a website that helps permit holders know where we are not welcome. Yes we can legally still enter these businesses, but we are all choosing to do business elsewhere. Since I do like to shop at small retail locations like yours I am planning on taking my business to Nano Systems in the future. They do not have much for used items, but they do allow me to legally carry in their location.

If in the next week you would like to rethink your posting please let me know so that I can keep you off the black list. I am also attaching a list that shows conviction rates and other such permit holder information for the entire state of MN. Please read through the pdf file I think you will find it interesting. Look closely at the top of page 6. I am sorry that I have to bring this issue to your attention, but it is not something that I am willing to let slide. People have been letting things go for too long in this country. There are a growing number of gun owners who are not willing to let our 2nd Amendment right be trampled on.

In closing I think the real effect of your sign is this. "No one in this store is armed please feel safe if you choose to rob us"

Norman Walker

Andrew Rothman
September 17, 2003, 11:52 AM

As a Minnesotan computer guy myself, I will be sure to send Mr. Que a note myself.


edit: Here it is!

I was disappointed to see that you have posted a "No Guns" sign at your business.

Although I have purchased several computers from your business in the past, I will not spend a dime there while the sign remains.

As a permit holder, I have had my background investigated by my local sheriff, who has determined that I do not and have never had a problem with drugs, violence or mental health. I have a clean criminal record, I have been trained and certified by state-approved instructors as being competent in the operation of and the legalities surrounding the carry of a concealed weapon.

What do you know about your other customers?

Rest assured, your sign will keep out law-abiding permit holders like myself. (And their money, too!)

It will also send a signal to those who might mean you harm: Unarmed victims within!

Please note that there have been over 12,000 permit holders in the state for years. Have you ever had a problem with any of them?

Please also note that your competitors, such as Tran, GNS, and larger stores like Micro Center, Best Buy and CompUsa are not posting. They are also having no problems with permit holders, and they ARE getting permit holders' business.

Thank you for taking the time to reconsider this policy.


Matt Payne
St. Paul

September 17, 2003, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the back up Matt, I am sure this will help allot. The more the merrier I suppose.

Here is the email i got back thins morning

From Mr. Ying



September 17, 2003, 08:07 PM

ATTABOY Guys... fight the good fight!

People like you make me proud to be an American.

September 17, 2003, 08:28 PM
I saw another thread where a poster priinted up cards (assumed business card size).

Side 1--No guns = No dollars (slash through graphics)

Side 2--Hoops jumped through to gain CCH permit.

The card can deal with a problem on the spot and a letter to follow will reinforce the message.

I wrote a letter the Wendy's corporate because of their insistence on serving only armed felons. No response received.

September 18, 2003, 01:12 PM
i have some of those cards, but sometimes it is better to give them a full explanation of CCW. The cards are kind of brief and don't elaborate as much as you would like.

September 18, 2003, 04:51 PM
couple of things... in sturms letter, i'd rewrite the part about expensive and legal hoops to jump through. you can simply state that you have passed both state and federal criminal background checks and are found to be a lawful individual by them.

also, i'd avoid mentioning 'blacklist'. instead, tell them that other consumers who enjoy exercising their rights will not be spending their money with that particular store. tell them you will encourage your friends and family to shop elsewhere until the signs are taken down.

September 18, 2003, 07:35 PM
Thanks Space, I apreciate the crtique. I never scored very well in writing assignments in college. I guess that is something I need to work on some more. This is going to be my new little form letter so I will make the mentioned changes so people don't feel so threatened.

Andrew Rothman
September 19, 2003, 07:14 PM
Got an email from the store owner today:






September 19, 2003, 07:41 PM
well gawrshdangit! it does us no good to have them cave in so easily! we cant sit and let it stew while we stir up the troops in just a day! someone tell them to put the signs back up until we are ready to unleash the hounds of hell.

:fire: :evil:

September 20, 2003, 12:59 AM
Hey thats great !



Greg L
September 20, 2003, 08:51 AM
That was quick. If you are in the area (and your budget allows) you should stop by and thank him the way he knows best, with a purchase of something. If it isn't too busy you might even be able to engage him in a conversation about the 2A and other things (just mention taxes and paperwork to any small business owner and you may never get him to shut up :D )


Andrew Rothman
September 20, 2003, 10:41 AM
The amazing thing is that this guy is an immigrant - from Vietnam, if I remember right. Here's a guy who should know the value of self defense.

Actually, I strongly suspect from his replies that his managers posted the signs. He found out, got a couple complaints, and set things right.


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