Help me decide which AR to create credit debt with


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RP88
November 5, 2008, 02:08 PM
I'm just about in the clear to make my last big gun purchase. Too bad I couldnt have done it earlier. Nevermind potential bans if I can't freaking find anything to buy, like it's been looking...

two makers: Stag and CMMG

for Stag, I'm thinking a plain M4 model from them. No rails, bells, and whistles.

For CMMG, I'm looking at their mid-length models (both the 14.5" and 16")

I already have a midlength from del-ton, but I don't mind having two midlengths around either - on del-ton and one from someone else.

I would say that price is no object, but i'm really not wanting to go upwards of 15-1600 bucks after buying a few extras, so I'm not really looking into Colt, LMT, or Nov (doesnt matter because finding them are nearly impossible).

all input appreciated. any other tips or advice is welcome too.

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gvnwst
November 5, 2008, 02:12 PM
Stag makes really good guns. (which you allready knew, i assume)
I am not a fan of spending $200 just to chop off 1.5" barrel length, or even having a 14.5" AR. 16" or something shorter than 12" for me.

My $.000002

Timradcliffe345
November 5, 2008, 02:23 PM
None of the above - instead go with S&W for a mid-line AR. S&W offers a superior product at a very reasonable price.

Vermont
November 5, 2008, 02:24 PM
I hope your job is very secure if you are planning to go into debt with the economy like it is.

Maybe I read your title wrong.

proven
November 5, 2008, 02:42 PM
there's a colt 6920 on gunbroker for $1300. worth the extra $ IMHO.

Browning
November 5, 2008, 03:19 PM
If it's going on a card and you're gonna pay it off a bit at a time anyway might as well the the best and buy either a Les Baer or a Wilson Combat.

Wilson Combat Site (wilsoncombat.com)

Les Baer Site (lesbaer.com)

Frog48
November 5, 2008, 03:26 PM
None of the above. I'd go with a S&W M&P-15. I've been kicking around the idea of getting one, to complement my Bushmaster.

I consider the M&P-15 to be the most "bang for the buck" right now.

mp510
November 5, 2008, 03:46 PM
A2 or A4 rifle:)

mr.scott
November 5, 2008, 03:51 PM
Rock River Arms Tactical Entry can be had for $900-$1000. and that's with the match trigger.

RP88
November 5, 2008, 04:31 PM
well, the debt thing was a cynical remark by myself. Honestly, what I'm really waying is "I almost paid off my credit card back down to $0.00, and want one last gun, and want it to be a GOOD one :D". And as for job security, I'm perfectly fine, because my job(s) sucks. Plus I have a good amount of money saved up should things go awry.

and I was thinking SW for a sec, too. I can find assembled lowers by them (or could) locally. The one thing that caught my eye was the difference between CMMG and SW is how 'the chart' makes them excellent in two different areas; the CMMG is near-milspec in all areas other than bolt/FCG testing, while the SW has all milspec tests and assurances done but with a few less milspec things to the body of the gun. The lifetime warranty is also real nice, too.

also, if it helps: the two roles intended are plinking/range shooting and defending the castle walls.

Bartkowski
November 5, 2008, 04:36 PM
You said you didn't want to look in to Colt, LMT, Noveske, but if you did you might find an LMT for around $1000, Or a Colt 6920 for $1200. A week or two ago dansammo.com had 6920's for $1200, then they went to $1250, now they are gone.

Out of the choices in the poll that were specific guns, I would go with either of the CMMG's. Smith and Wesson's are good, but I like the options CMMG offers for about the same price.

SoCalShooter
November 5, 2008, 05:22 PM
You could look at the white oak armament SDMR rifle upper.

rbernie
November 5, 2008, 05:34 PM
I am very partial to the CMMG middie lightweights. I have several, and I reach for them more often than my other ARs.

LTB15J
November 5, 2008, 05:42 PM
hell, if your intentionally gonna put yourself in debt, screw cmmg and stag. first, go with a larue lower, vltor MUR or LMT MRP upper.

then buy yourself a gesseile 2 stage trigger and use only HK mags. buy yourself all the crap you really dont need (5 point sling, anti rotational pins, extended bolt catch, ambi safety, and of course the tactical charging handle) then buy yourself a decent, US optics scope in the 1200 dollar range, a larue one piece mount, and a harris bipod. follow it off with a LMT sopmod stock, a decent pistol grip, a surefure m3 millennium for light, good suppressor, and a larue vfg for support.


that should put you into debt quite nicely.

Tyris
November 5, 2008, 05:47 PM
Do not buy a COLT or any other lower marked "LEO ONLY". At some point in the near future this will bite you in the rear.

Colt's stupidity in needlessly marking the lower astounds me.

-T

UnTainted
November 5, 2008, 07:33 PM
Dude!!!

UnTainted
November 5, 2008, 07:34 PM
AR-10.

'Nuf said.

Seriously, if you're going to do it with a credit card, get the slammer.

Auburn1992
November 5, 2008, 07:43 PM
I would probably just go for a standard Bushmaster a3 w/ a 20 in bbl. Just my personal preference though.

Shade00
November 5, 2008, 09:56 PM
Just get a Colt and be done with it.

KW
November 5, 2008, 09:59 PM
CMMG makes a good gun. If you want, buy one with no bcg and drop in an LMT or BCM bcg. That'll check almost all the boxes on the chart for a fairly low price.

LTB15J
November 5, 2008, 10:04 PM
all those 'boxes on the chart' dont equate to a quality rifle. plus 'the chart' isnt even accurate

RP88
November 6, 2008, 01:33 AM
if anyone knows where to even find Colt/LMT/Nov rifles in stock, then let me know so I can check the price out and see. and considering that alot of milspec stuff - at least the important ones - are found on your high-quality rifles, I'd wager to say that it does matter.

ugaarguy
November 6, 2008, 01:55 AM
if anyone knows where to even find Colt/LMT/Nov rifles in stock, then let me know so I can check the price out and see. and considering that alot of milspec stuff - at least the important ones - are found on your high-quality rifles, I'd wager to say that it does matter.
I own both a LMT and a Charles Daly DM4LE. After inspecting several Daly AR-15s at work and seeing consistent quality, I bought the more available DM4LE and added a LMT BCG, rather than wait and hope for another LMT. The Daly's factory BCG is being kept as a spare. Although they only Batch HPT their barrels, Daly and CMMG are the only companies outside of Colt / Noveske / LMT / BCM to do individual MPI on their barrels. If you can't get a Noveske / Colt / LMT then a Daly DM4LE with either an LMT or BCM brand BCG is the next best thing in a factory built rifle with only one drop in part swap.

nzo012
November 6, 2008, 02:16 AM
I would consider Yankee Hill Machine's rifles, they have made most of the parts that everyone uses to build theirs and they are priced alright.

http://www.yhm.net/

Tarvis
November 6, 2008, 02:31 AM
If you are planning on getting an A2 upper, I say go midlength. Otherwise, I say CMMG M4gery. Or, what mp510 said, get a rifle length with either a flat top or an A2 upper.

Smith
November 6, 2008, 03:08 AM
No Noveske?

hags
November 6, 2008, 03:12 AM
Rock River Arms Tactical Entry can be had for $900-$1000. and that's with the match trigger.


why would you want a NM two stage trigger on a "tactical entry" gun?
what exactly are you entering?

madcratebuilder
November 6, 2008, 09:03 AM
At this point in time, just finding an AR well be difficult. For the budget you have I would buy a Bushmaster M4 and 500 rounds of ammo. I has at my local gun shop yesterday and they where putting out stock and commented on that is the last of the AR's for the foreseeable future. I have been wanting an A2 style for a while, got their last one, 20 " heavy barrel, + two 30rd mags, $800 out he door.

RP88
November 6, 2008, 04:59 PM
I really don't want a match trigger. I'm not going to be shooting at a competition anytime soon. I'm really looking for a high-quality rifle that shoots great and can be trusted for just about anything - without maxing out my credit card.

So far, I'm browsing through the mid-length choices at CMMG, but I'm keeping the Model 1 Stag in mind as well.

also, where can I find these s&Ws in the 900-1100 range? All the ones I saw were upwards of 1300-1400 bucks.

CoRoMo
November 6, 2008, 05:28 PM
I'm in the same boat. Since the "election", the money I've been saving for a good waterfowl gun is going to be used for an AR, and I'm looking at Stag or Colt. Stag will probably win due to the price.

Do not buy a COLT or any other lower marked "LEO ONLY". At some point in the near future this will bite you in the rear.

How?

RP88
November 6, 2008, 05:43 PM
because one day the obamanite will kick your door down and take everything marked LEO omly, because the next AWB will have all EBRs marked that way since they'll only be sold to LEO or military, and you won't be able to prove that you didnt kill a cop to get one. It makes sense, in a world where tin foil hats reign, and where you just CAN'T show proof of purchase before such a farfetched thing via receipts kept by any somewhat smart gun owner.

acn001
November 6, 2008, 05:47 PM
Voted for for the more expensive range... and I paid for all of my weapons cash.

KBintheSLC
November 7, 2008, 06:51 PM
Rock River Arms Tactical Entry can be had for $900-$1000

I second that. The Stag would be good too. I think most rifles in that price range are basically the same. Just pick the configuration you like, and go with a company that has a good customer service record.

ryanl
November 7, 2008, 06:59 PM
Get a Stag and a boatload of ammo and dont look back. You dont have to spend over a grand to get a nice rifle. CMT makes some of the best parts in the industry and have been doing so for a very long time. For a grand you could have a Stag m4 and 1k rounds m193.

Gunnerpalace
November 7, 2008, 08:15 PM
and I paid for all of my weapons cash

Did you get them private sale, if not it does not matter anyway,

In, Before........"The Chart".

Tyris
November 7, 2008, 08:23 PM
It makes sense, in a world where tin foil hats reign, and where you just CAN'T show proof of purchase before such a farfetched thing via receipts kept by any somewhat smart gun owner.

Dont be daft.

It makes sense in a world where police do not understand or know the laws beyond 65 mph > 55 mph = ticket. Dont expect them to believe any BS story about "oh the restricted LEO marked lower was OK before obama! honest! and here's the recipt that I could have easily faked on my printer to prove it!"

-T

possum
November 7, 2008, 08:40 PM
i say go for the stag, cmmg stuff i don't have much experience with but the stags are good to go in my book.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 7, 2008, 09:00 PM
In, Before........"The Chart".

IBTC, lol, nice! :D

RP88
November 7, 2008, 11:45 PM
I've looked over the chart and product reviews and have been reading every AR thread that I can find on brands. Stag gets my attention due to it being a well-built and very affordable AR. CMMG gets my attention because it's just - as others have said - a new bolt drop-in away from being almost completely mil-standard as you can get in the civvie market, and for only about 100-125 bucks more than the Stag.

Also, a good question: how would run-of-the-mill 55gr bullets (say, Wolf or your good ol' PMC bronze) handle in the CMMG's 1x7 barrel? I've heard that such barrels do not take well to lighter and shorter bullets, but would the 55gr be just fine?

And as for me being daft...well, I'm done arguing with the whole sky-is-falling group. If you're right, then I hope you enjoy taking solace in saying 'I told you so' to everyone once the feds come in and gas me. But until then, keep the defeatist attitude and the Ocean's 11 conspiracies to yourself.

ParaElite
November 8, 2008, 12:10 AM
Get an LMT or a Colt or a Noveske. The Sabre folks have an excellent upper if you want a 20 inch barrel or for that matter 16. Look at Charles Daley as well. They have a carbine LE version which is an excellent buy.

ugaarguy
November 8, 2008, 01:00 AM
Also, a good question: how would run-of-the-mill 55gr bullets (say, Wolf or your good ol' PMC bronze) handle in the CMMG's 1x7 barrel? I've heard that such barrels do not take well to lighter and shorter bullets, but would the 55gr be just fine?
55 grain FMJ, and heavy jacket soft points (like Federal Vital Shok Trophy Bonded Bear Claw / Federal LE Bonded Soft Point / Speer Gold Dot Soft Point - all the same ammo under different names). will be fine in 1:7. Some lighter construction varmint bullets may have issues. I've posted this before, but here's what Speer Reloading Manual Number 13 p. 137 has to say:
Although the fast twist works well with military ammo, handloaders ran into a problem. Most 22 caliber centerfire rifle bullets are of light construction for varmint hunting. When fired at 3200 feet/sec in a 1-in-7 twist rifle, the bullet is rotating at over 300,000 rpm when it leaves the muzzle. This rotation is more than most varmint bullets can withstand so they are literally ripped apart as they leave the barrel.

If you have a rifle with the faster 1-in-7 twist, you should limit the muzzle velocity of sporting-type bullets to around 2800 feet/sec.

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