accuracy; how to's


November 5, 2008, 01:24 PM
so, i was out today sighting in one of my (my wifes) deer rifles. i put a different scope on, and i wanted to zero n @ 150 yards, instead of 100. so i was using some home loads that i just popped out of one of the reloading manuals. i loaded 1/2 way between the start and max load. using remington core locts (30-30) and i was using them just to get close before swithcing to what we usually shoot. which is winchester 150 grain hollow points. anyawy, the accuracy of these re-loads was not really all that great:barf:. and i guess i have just been lucky in the past. because usually, most everything else i have loaded (which admittedly is really not that much) has been fairly accurate. well, at least i thought so. i actually am entering into a whole new world here, as now i have a portable shooting bench, and a solid rifle rest from which to shoot. instead of the old "lay it across the hood of the truck" method. so what is the best way to go about getting great accuracy from my reloads. start at the starting point and work up by 1/2 grains? i really can not afford to work up by 1/10ths of a grain. the cost of bullets would break me very rapidly. especially since now i am going to have to do this for every rifle i own. sometimes i wonder if it all is worth it!?!:banghead::banghead:

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November 5, 2008, 01:51 PM
Since you need to crimp on the cannelure you can throw out adjusting OAL at least. IMO 30-30 is not the easiest cartridge to reload since the brass is thin and it's long neck makes producing concentric cartridges difficult.
Moving around 1/10 grain isn't going to change much. 1/2g increments should work fine to start with. Maybe you can tell us more about what powder primer and charge weights you've tried.
This article has some fine tuning tips along with some basic accuracy hints:

The Bushmaster
November 5, 2008, 04:44 PM
moooose102...Is that for a lever gun? If so...Try 32 grains of W-748 with a 170 grain Speer Hot Core bullet. Or look at a powder charge of W-748 near maximum (but not maximum) with a Speer 150 grain Hot Core FN. I'm getting 1 5/8" three shot spread at 100 yards from an old (1949) Winchester Mod 94.

November 5, 2008, 09:31 PM
i have imr 3031, imr 4198 and reloader 15 (i have more, but it isnt suited for the 30-30). i used 30.0 grains of imr 3031 with 150 grain remington core locts round nose bullets, cci lg rifle primers, rp brass. out of a mid 70's glenfield (marlin) lever gun (microgroove barrel) about 4" groups at 150 yards. not terrible, but certainly nothing to write home about either. the winchester 150 hp's were averageing 2.5-2.75" groups. which is better, but still not great. the barrel was clean just prior to shooting and i am certain there was no copper in the bore. i had a problem with that a while back, and now i am a freak about it. maybe it isnt possible to improve on the factory rounds, but mine need some help.

The Bushmaster
November 5, 2008, 10:32 PM
I'm afraid that is about all you are going to get out of that micro-groove barrel.

I wouldn't have a clue as to how good my Ol' Jack Handle would do out to 150 yards. If I feel I'll be shooting to that range or better I take the .30-06

November 6, 2008, 09:18 AM
Your accuracy is very good at 150 yds. I like IMR 4895 powder in my 30WCF .

November 6, 2008, 05:45 PM
I'm loading a 125 grain Sierra flat nosed hollow pint with 31.5 grains of H322 and I am getting a 1- 1 1/2" group at 100 almost anyday. Usually I am resting on sandbags on the hood of my truck or laying on the groudn with sandbags. If I went to a higher magnification scope I could probably close thar group down some but for what I am using the gun for the low profile straight 3 power is fine.

November 6, 2008, 08:59 PM
I read about a 1" 5 shot 100 yard group ~15 years ago on user groups [on rec.guns before there were gun forums on the WWW].

I was getting 6" groups at the time, and so began my 5 year quest.

Here is some stuff I learned:
I see a few trends in my accuracy quest:
1) There are dozens if not hundreds of variables.
2) Life is too short to test one variable at time on all the variables.
3) Some of those variables can take too much time and money.

This has some implications:
1) Some accuracy folk lore in the gun culture will need to be taken on faith.
2) We each must choose [with science, guessing, and coin flipping] which variables we pay for or include in our rituals.

The hierarchy of accuracy needs:
1) Benchrest 0.2 moa
2) Varmint 1.0 moa
3) Deer hunting 6.0 moa

I can walk into a Sporting Goods store, buy a rifle and factory ammo, go to the range and shoot 6moa.

The trick for me was getting from 6moa to 1moa.
The problem was not discovering which new thing to pay for or work into my rituals, it was knowing which ones were benchrest only, and so a waste of time for me.

Some things not worth the time and money in attaining 1moa:
1) Neck turning
2) flash hole deburring
3) weighing the brass and sorting
4) 20" 5 pound barrels
5) 6mmPPC
6) Gluing the action to the stock
7) Micrometer seating adjustment
8) Target bullets
9) weighing each charge
10) an arbor press
11) Wilson dies
12) strain gauges to measure pressure
13) Chonographs [but they are good for bragging]

Some things worth the money and effort to get 1moa:
1) Concentric ammo
2) Concentric chambers
3) Good bullets
4) 40X scope
5) windless days
6) bullet seated long
7) free floated barrel
8) hair trigger
9) Clean barrel
10) stress relieved and factory hand lapped barrel
11) No AKs, SKSs, or FALS, but ARs and M14s ok, and bolt guns are even better.
11) Glass the action to the stock and the scope mounts to the receiver for a low compliance and low stress connection.
12) Shooting technique with consistent trigger pull and reaction to recoil

I have ~36 calibers I load, and 22 full sets of dies and lots of specialty dies. I have 6 presses and equipment from Redding, RCBS, Lee, Lyman, Forster, Wilson, etc.

I have finally found MY system:
1) Prep the brass
a) flash holes
b) Chamfer inside the mouth. Seat and pull bullets to verify that the mouth will not scratch bullets. Do not cookie cutter mouth.
c) Chamfer outside the mouth
d) De burr the chamfer with steel wool in a cup in the lathe
2) Fireform with 10 gr. Unique and Cream of Wheat if fire forming is needed.
3) De cap spent primers
4) Clean inside necks with steel wool
5) Clean outside the necks with steel wool
6) Clean primer pockets with Lyman pocke uniformer
7) 3/4 neck size with Forster Full length sizing die with decapping stem and expander ball removed. Put Imperial sizing wax on case necks. Never use sizing ball. If bullet will not seat, have Forster lap out the neck.
8) Charge with IMR4895 powder unless there is a reason for another powder. Quickly work up to sticky bolt charge. Reduce to long brass life charge. Reduce to most accurate charge.
9) Seat bullet with Forster Seating Die to depth that gives best accuracy. Measure cartridge length with Sinclair bullet comparitor.
10) Shoot with a rear rabbit eared bag and a benchrest.
11) Rifle must have trued action, chamber must be cut concentric, action must be bedded, Lothar Walther factory hand lapped barrel, trigger must minimize creep, force, and over travel.
12) Hold rifle so reaction [rifle movement] to recoil is consistent. If possible, do not let butt hit shoulder until rifle has moved back enough to let bullet out.
13) Prep bore with Lyman moly bore paste. shoot only moly coated bullets like Honady Vmax, Berger MEF, or get bullets coated by Hayden.
14) Clean the bore with patch, jag, and powder solvent every 10 rounds.
15) 40X Leupold scope, mounts must be glass bedded to receiver with mounts loose and rings tight on scope so mount will align with scope. Tighten mounts when epoxy sets up.
16) At the end of the day, clean bore with caustic solution to get rid of acids.
17) Only shoot on windless days, and early in the morning.
18) Write all over targets. Load at the range. Write up range report as soon as getting home and email buddies.
19) Repair chrono where bullets hit rods.
20) Stick with calibers that Forster makes dies for, and avoid calibers that kick so hard you shoot 3 shot groups instead of 5 shot groups.
21) Go to the range more often. Stick with a gun until it is accurate or decide to sell it.

November 6, 2008, 09:20 PM
I spent a lot of time and money trying to find a 30-30 load that shot as good as the factory Winchester 150gr loads. I finally gave up. I shoot my 94 so seldom now that I just use the off-the-shelf stuff now. It's the only caliber (besides 22LR and 22WMR) that I don't load for.

November 6, 2008, 09:21 PM

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