Sharpening a bullet


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BayouBocephus
November 5, 2008, 03:24 PM
this is probably a ridiculous question and most likely could hurt yourself or something else but....if u sharpen a ball round for a handgun to a point would it aid in penetration or any other side effects??

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R.W.Dale
November 5, 2008, 03:34 PM
the shape of the bullet has little or nothing to do with penetration. If anything sharp edged SWC's penetrate more than anything else

any other side effects?

The jacket could come off and get stuck in the bore possibly causing your firearm to explode on the next shot.

1858rem
November 5, 2008, 03:35 PM
if you reload i dont see harm in trying unless its an auto, less likely to feed well then. factory ammo..... depends on how much material your removing, too much could change pressure significantly when not changing the powder load accordingly, i think:scrutiny:, also.. would it penetrate more b/c its sharper, or less b/c it has less weight/momentum?... do a wet phone book test, or another test is 3/4inch pine slates spaced 1 inch apart

BayouBocephus
November 5, 2008, 03:45 PM
ok...i was thinking it might penetrate more because of the same pressure on a tighter point instead of a flatter,rounded nose

243winxb
November 5, 2008, 03:47 PM
aid in penetration or any other side effects?? It would make the bullet come apart more easly, not penetrate more. The bullet would no longer be accurate, unless turned in a lathe. Ball rounds can have lead exposed on the base, if the nose of the copper bullet is opened up, the pressure on firing can blow the lead out the barrel, leaving the copper jacket lodge in your barrel. IMO just a guess.

rcmodel
November 5, 2008, 03:59 PM
That's not a guess.
That's a fact!

BTW: Years ago they made a .357 Mag load called the Highway-Master.

It was a soft lead swaged bullet with a sharp pointed jacket over the tip. It was supposed to shoot right through an automobile.

It didn't work as well as a hard-cast SWC.

The Bushmaster
November 5, 2008, 04:34 PM
Question...How many of you have degrees in interior and exterior ballistics...I don't. I do read and experiment with the available bullets. I, however, will not redesign the manufactures bullet. In most cases it wouldn't work and in other cases could get someone hurt...To modify a bullet for self defense even if it doesn't work (like the cross or "X" carved across a bullet nose) it indicates you intended to do more harm then the bullet was intended to do.:rolleyes:

spyder1911
November 5, 2008, 06:23 PM
The OP is not as far off as many people think. A normal bullet will not do much good when sharpened since lead is too soft, but using machined brass will have much different results. Enter the world of the THV bullet as pictured. Look it up, but great penetration against steel.

http://www.firearmsid.com/Bullets/images/bt20.jpg

mgregg85
November 5, 2008, 06:35 PM
I always wondered if a sharpened piece of tool steel stuck tightly into a hollowpoint would adequately pierce armor. But I don't have a lathe or a bullet proof to test it on.

Deavis
November 5, 2008, 06:37 PM
the shape of the bullet has little or nothing to do with penetration

that is not correct unless you specifically include a disclaimer that you are talking about a soft metal. Making a point will improve penetration because it concentrates the kenetic energy of the projectile in a very small area. A quick review of physics will tell you why that is a good thing.

Penetrators are not flat and they are not soft.

243winxb
November 5, 2008, 06:42 PM
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/THV.htm THV BULLET link

Larry E
November 5, 2008, 06:54 PM
Many years ago a Canadian Army officer had an article published in Handloader magazine showing lathe turned hard brass or bronze bullets for handgun that were designed to penetrate armor. Of course those are now illegal.

243winxb
November 5, 2008, 06:57 PM
I always wondered if a sharpened piece of tool steel stuck tightly into a hollowpoint would adequately pierce armor. But I don't have a lathe or a bullet proof to test it on.
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/556mm_ammo.html Scroll down , see Armor Piercing. Nothing new.

Remo-99
November 5, 2008, 07:25 PM
A lot of handgun rounds will tend to over penetrate intended targets, as handgun rounds don't have high velocities to distrupt the bullet nose upon impact and travel deep into soft tissue and ballistics gel, before they are stopped.

High velocity rifle bullets on the otherhand, often pointed, deform easily transfering the energy of the bullet into the target causing massive tissue damage and not just push a hole through.

Specialized penetrating bullets use a very hard metal core, so it's not deformed easily, with a long thin profile to use kinetic energy which is focused, like others have said, onto a smaller point.

If you want more penetration in a handgun round, just load the longest/heaviest bullets you can find for it. And a full metal jacket will help to reduce bullet deforming if hard objects are struck on it's path. ( ie large African game bullets are usually not super high velocities, but more of a largebore, heavy fmj roundnose bullet. To give very deep penetration into large game.)

moooose102
November 6, 2008, 06:47 AM
I always wondered if a sharpened piece of tool steel stuck tightly into a hollowpoint would adequately pierce armor. But I don't have a lathe or a bullet proof to test it on.

what that would do is initiate expansion. that is what balistic tip bullets do/use, only they use plastic to push back on the bullet center. now, if you made a solid bullet from copper, and sharpened it to a pint. it should out penetrate a rond nose or semiwadcutter in the same WEIGHT class.

Walkalong
November 6, 2008, 07:07 AM
Tip toeing through a mine field. :uhoh:

everallm
November 6, 2008, 08:48 AM
Assuming this is purely a thought experiment and not advocating what, in and number of states is, or verges on the illegal.

You would have to use a material much harder than lead to prevent plastic deformation on impact

The round if not made of copper or bronze would probably need to have copper driving bands swaged onto the round or be loaded into a sabot to ensure rifling spin up without excessive wear on the lands.

The round by it's nature cannot be a HP and by being made of a hard material would not expand on entry so at best you would get a small through and through injury.

Since the round would be a monolithic piece, fired out of a handgun, at handgun velocities, then the possibility of tumbling and/or fragmentation is as close to zero as makes no difference.

In other words what are you going to get out of it?

rcmodel
November 6, 2008, 11:57 AM
or verges on the illegal.No verging here at all.
It is against the law in all 50 states.

It has been illegal since 1968 to manufacture armor-piercing handgun ammo

Federal Law 921(a)(17)

(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means —

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

GooseGestapo
November 6, 2008, 11:29 PM
Not familiar with "federal law".
If valid, it will be in this format:
xxCFRxx.xx(a)(b)(c) ect........

Not '68, but rather probably circa 1978 if valid.............
Check again, and cite your source correctly, unless that is perhaps Canadian, Australian, law.........ect...

Also; current and valid law stipulates that it has to be "designed" and "intended" to penetrate personal body armor..........

I had a class 1, and class 6 (manufacturer's license) from '83-'92. Never had ATF discuss "armor penetrating bullets" with me. But then, I requested license only for "reloading and remanufacturing" small arms ammunition.

TonyDedo
November 7, 2008, 01:50 AM
any other side effects??

You'll poke your eye out!!!

rcmodel
November 7, 2008, 11:16 AM
Federal Law 921(a)(17)

Gun Control Act of 1968, as modified in 1986, and subsequently in 1994:

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm


.

LTB15J
November 7, 2008, 11:35 AM
you'll be in danger of being labeled a mall ninja. that's about it

jacobhh
November 7, 2008, 12:05 PM
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other

substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron,

brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium;


Note it states beryllium copper. Pure solid copper bullets are OK
and Magtech solid copper bullets are available from Midway for example.
Apparently the purpose is for use on 'lead free' ranges.

I don't know about any state law, but I can envision the EPA jumping on this
and requiring these or some lead-free bullet.

jerkface11
November 7, 2008, 12:53 PM
I think you'd cut thru the jacket before you got it sharp.

Sunray
November 7, 2008, 10:31 PM
"...it should out penetrate a rond(SIC) nose or semiwadcutter in the same WEIGHT class..." It won't make a lick of difference with like velocities. Penetration is about velocity and bullet construction with like weights. Bullet construction is more important.
"...Pure solid copper bullets..." Barnes Bullets are soild copper. They fly differently than a lead core bullet though.

Remo-99
November 8, 2008, 06:45 AM
Velocity is needed to defeat armour, which handgun rounds lack, as well as a specialty hardened metal core penetrator.
As for using hardened/sharpened metal objects in handgun rounds, to use against personal body armour.
I hope your keeping an eye out for the black van out front.
How did this thread degrade into this anyways? lol

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