[hillbilly]

I know that in Arkansas, some folks are awful excited that Wesley Clark is going to get into the presidential race.

But, here is a quote to judge Clark by:

http://meetclark.com/faq/index.asp?faqid=33

I have got 20 some odd guns in the house. I like to hunt. I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army, we have them.”



Just my two cents worth, as an Arkie who saw Slick Willy develop, I think Clark is even more scary than Clinton.

Clinton was a slimy scum-sucker with few personal core beliefs other than keeping his sorry self in power.

Clark strikes me as the most scary kind of hazy, fuzzy-thinking do-gooder with enough conviction to trample on whomever he deems necessary to accomplish that hazy, fuzzy-thought goodness.

Think of a tree-hugger who has M-1 Abrams tanks and knows how to use them and is willing to use them to accomplish the salvation of the yellow-bellied slit-eared spotted snail darter.

Hopefully, he'll be just the 10th face in an already crowded, and undistinguished field.

hillbilly

[Bruce H]

Just about anybody that makes the rank Clark did is suspect. They have to be very good political operatives to advance to this rank. They also never make a decision without examining the problem from every angle and making sure they have a fall guy if it fails.

[Tamara]

"If you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you -- the United States Army. We have them."

I can like whatever I want to like, wherever I want to like it, and I don't need any permission from you to do it, soldier boy. You ain't the boss of me. :rolleyes:

The problem with having several decades of experience in having people ask "How high?" when you say "Jump!" is that it can give one a skewed idea of the reality that exists outside the microcosm of one's chosen profession. :scrutiny:

[Standing Wolf]

I'd sooner vote for a communist than a representative of the Democratic (sic) party: at least the communist is honest about his tyrannical intentions.

[MicroBalrog]

I'd sooner vote for a communist than a representative of the Democratic (sic) party

Thank you. I will keep it in mind when running for Senate (you have to be a U.S. citizen for 5 years, right?).

[Aces]

The worst part is to a lot of people this makes sense. Ask the average person with no bias either way what an assault weapon is, and a large % will say "machine gun". The antis biggest victory on this matter was introducing the words "assault weapon" into the lexicon.
Even more disgusting are the hunters who agree with this. The "you don't need those guns" attitude, and the more despicable attitude that they can throw other guns and gunners overboard to save their own cowardly asses.

[moa]

And Gen. Clarke supposedly graduated the first in his class at West Point. Standards must have been pretty then.

There is no excuse for an empty headed comment like that from an officer who should be an expert on military firearms versus non-military firearms.

[greyhound]

Ask the average person with no bias either way what an assault weapon is, and a large % will say "machine gun". The antis biggest victory on this matter was introducing the words "assault weapon" into the lexicon.

Yup, I agree 100%. And every day the myth just grows larger and larger.
And we can call 'em "Homeland Defense Rifles" all we want, thanks to the media "Assault Rifle" will always mean "Machine Gun". I've tried to explain to lefties about "semi-auto" versus "auto", you just can see their eyes glazing over......

[Cosmoline]

Now is Clark talking about M16A2's, or is he talking about AR-15's? The former is a true assault rifle, the latter isn't. I can't tell from this blurb which definition he's using--political or real. Anyone have more info on this? Does he support extension of the "assault weapons" ban, or is he just voicing support for the 1934 law?

[Aces]

I don't think it's too much of an assmuption to say it's the '94 law.
The '34 law isn't due to sunset ever, that I'm aware of.

[Cosmoline]

The mind boggles. How can you get four stars and not know what an assault rifle is? Surely he understands the concept of selective fire?

[Standing Wolf]

Surely he understands the concept of selective fire?

He probably delegated that portion of the job to an underling.

[Aces]

I'm sure he does understand. The fact that most people don't is what he's counting on.
He's preparing to move from military man to politician, and profering the "Common sense gun control" line. Actually explaining the difference in the two rifles wouldn't gain any traction with the Dem faithful.

[Mark Tyson]

Another turn coat gun owner who thinks the 2nd amendment is about hunting and recreation. He should pay a visit to Camp Perry sometime. I swear this divide and conquer strategy of the anti-rights people will be the end of us. Then when they've gotton the handguns and "assault weapons" they will reclassify your .300 Win Mag Ed Brown Savanna rifle as a sniper weapon. . . for the children of course.

We shouldn't be too surprised. SSarah Brady bought her kid a rifle after all.

[rick_reno]

Cosmoline posted "Does he support extension of the "assault weapons" ban, or is he just voicing support for the 1934 law?"

They ALL support the existing "assault weapon" law and want it extended. We've got a sitting President - a Republican - who has voiced his support for the law and it's extension.

Clark is one worth watching. He's got the backing and support of the Clinton's. I doubt he'd be any worse than any of the others - when I look at the one occupying the office now and those wanting the office - I don't see any significant differences. They'll wipe their butts with the Bill of Rights for the War on Whatever...and tell us it's good for us.

[lapidator]

Indeed, this is an interesting development...

Clark brings to the table something that the other 9 dwarfs (Democrat party candidates) do not, a bona fide military background AND military victory (albiet from 15,000ft). IMHO -- this makes him the leader of the pack -- it remains to be seen whether the "Angry Left" will continue to drive the Democrat Party Bus and thus keep with Dean.

However -- most disturbingly about Clark's entry to the race now is what it will mean in 4 months. Keep in mind that Hillary still has aspirations to be Ms. President. Right now, Bush is still too strong a candidate for her to jump into the fray. Yet, if Clark steals the show from Dean and Kerry (the other dwarfs are nothing and nowhere), and softens up Bush's armor there is a ripe opening for Hillary to steal the party at the last moment (and then paying Clark off with the #2 job). Remember that Clark and Bill are "great friends" and Bill still wants to be Sec. State or UN President and this will keep him closer to the action.

Remember also that Hillary cannot allow a Dem to win the Presidency in 2004 unless it's she -- because she will not be able to run in 2008 against a sitting Dem President and she'll be too old in 2012. Also, if Rudy decides to try for that Senate seat in 2006, and wins, Hillary would be eliminated from contention in 2008 by default.

As an earlier poster mentions, Clark is a military man -- he's accustomed to taking orders. My money's is on Hillary/Clark 2004 -- which would make for a formidable challenge for Bush/Cheney ... or should I say Bush/Powell.

As for Clark's stance on guns? Who cares -- he's a liberal democrat. Clearly he thinks government, NATO and the UN should be in control of your life -- therefore you don't need guns.

Lapidator

[Telperion]

I have got 20 some odd guns in the house. I like to hunt. I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army, we have them.
Hmm, that sounds familiar. Oh yes, now I recall:

Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State. -- Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS and Gestapo

[Lone_Gunman]

Read this wonderful quote by General Clark:

"Secondly, the tax cuts weren’t fair. I mean, the people that need the money and deserve the money are the people who are paying less, not the people who are paying more. I thought this country was founded on a principle of progressive taxation."

He thinks the country was founded on a principle of progressive taxation.

He thinks our country was founded on a principle of progressive taxation???

What the hell is he talking about ?


Now you may be thinking that no educated man would make such a statement. But he did on national TV, and if thats not bad enough, he even has it up now on his website!

http://www.draftclark2004.com/issues.asp

Go towards the bottom, its under the heading "Sound economic policy..."

[chas_martel]

Uhhhh, I hate to point this out to everyone, but assault rifle means it is fully automatic.

What we call assault rifles in the US is really an improper use of the term.

[sm]

Agree with hillbilly, I'm too close to the central part of AR. I too saw Klinton develop from AG, to Gov, to moving up north and living in a white house.
Yep, the air smells like it did way back then...stinks.

History is a good reminder to NOT repeat mistakes...some sheeple though obviously don't have that part of the brain developed yet...or the gene pool has eradicated it altogether.

No disrespect for Mr. Clark as an individual...just don't care for the principles and the party he represents.

[Seawolf]

What about people unable to join the US Army due to medical issues? He feels they should not posess assault weapons?

[Tamara]

Uhhhh, I hate to point this out to everyone, but assault rifle means it is fully automatic.

What we call assault rifles in the US is really an improper use of the term.

Yeah, a couple of other posts above yours were discussing that.

You may notice, however, that he didn't say "assault rifle", which is a weapon that is defined as a matter of military convention, but rather "assault weapon", which is a legal term defined by 18 USC 922(v).

[greyhound]

I thought this country was founded on a principle of progressive taxation."

No way in h*** would I ever vote for a person who knew so little about his country's history.

Hopefully, next time he's interviewed, someone will ask him when the income tax started, and doofus will bleat out, "1776!":cuss:

[Old Fuff]

I own some guns .......

These are good guns because I like them and I sometimes go hunting ......

This makes me feel all warm and fuzzy ........

But I don't think people should own guns, if I don't think they should ......

I spent my whole adult life telling people what they should and shouldn't do, and that's the way it should be .......

What Militia? You must mean the National Guard .....

He should make a good Democrat.

[Bruce H]

Hillary Clintons running mate just announced. Watch carefully, this is the super dream team.

[MuzzleBlast]

Mind boggling. One doesn't graduate from any college, let alone West Point, without studying history. I would think history would be a really big thing at West Point.
One doesn't get stars on one's shoulders in the Army without doing time in the infantry. While not all grunts are gun nuts, a pretty good percentage of them are, even officers.
Being a USMA graduate Army officer, one would expect Clark to have had some exposure to concepts like integrity, responsibility, accountability, honor, and hokey stuff like that. How such a person could willingly ally themselves with the likes of the Clintons, Shumer, Kennedy, Gephardt, the BoxStein twins, Dashle, etc. is truly mind boggling.

[Mark Tyson]

You can become a general without going through the infantry - there's plenty of support fields that breed officers too. But I think Clark was a combat arms officer. Once you get above a certain level of course, you become less involved in things like weapons qualification and become more of a manager. Clark has been removed from the field for a long time like most high ranking officers. Eventually a gun is just a heavy weight you wear on your pistol belt.

[hillbilly]

The following piece from Front Page Magazine has an overt, obvious right-wing, anti-Clark slant.

But it does contain some facts which are verifiable, as in the following link to a British news story.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9889

And the Brit news story with the "World War III" quip in it....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/671495.stm

[hillbilly]

More on Clark, including Moore!

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059479880384


http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/5962.htm

[BigG]

He has about the same chance as the other nine dwarfs. What were their names again? :confused:

[Skunkabilly]

I have got 20 some odd guns in the house. I like to hunt. I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army, we have them.”

Great. And people who like cars should be cab drivers :rolleyes:

[Sean Smith]

As a fellow graduate of West Point, I have to say that Clark is a twisted, degenerate freak... and I thought so before I had any idea he would try to run for office. A self-serving "political general" in the worst possible sense, and a real scumbag independent of his political "ideas." He did such a bad job in Kosovo that Clinton fired him, which pretty much says it all in my opinion.

[seeker_two]

Sean Smith: He wasn't fired b/c he messed up in Kosovo. He was fired b/c he was taking air time away from the SECDEF and the other cronies in the Clinton cabinet. And it was SECDEF (Cohen--I think) who fired him b/c Clark kept doing end runs around him to Clinton for "favors".

Clark is Clinton's "ideal" general. Keep that in mind when you look at his military career....:barf:

[telewinz]

"He has about the same chance as the other nine dwarfs. What were their names again?"

I don't think Clark should be taken lightly, I think he will be the most serious threat to Brush's re-election. If Clark turns out to be a "moderate" in most of his political beliefs and there is still an "Iraq problem", with his military record he could defeat Bush in a landslide a year from now. I am waiting to hear what his announced stance is on gun control, that may be the deciding factor for my vote.

[No4Mk1]

I thought his announced stance on gun control was the point of this thread.

[Waitone]

He's all in favor of guns in the hands of the right people.

One little historical event will be examined at least in the alternative media now that Gen. Clark announced.

Seems the good general was the commanding general of the facilities that provided armored vehicles, troops, and training to Reno during the Waco Siege. Lots and lots of questions have yet to be answered. Inteestingly enough the good general was a so-so ossifer headed no where in particular until his cooperation with the Waco Siege then his star took off. Truly astounding things happen.

I'm working up a list or URL's.

[Skunkabilly]

I think Chuck Yeager should run against him :cool:

[Dilettante]

(MicroBalrog)
I will keep it in mind when running for Senate (you have to be a U.S. citizen for 5 years, right?).

Sorry, it's 9. :(

In there an old thread (or a FAQ) that explains what the different legal definitions of "assault rifle" are?

Technically speaking, is there any such thing as an "assault rifle", or does it just mean whatever they're banning this year?

[Mark Tyson]

Assault rifles are capable of fully automatic fire.

Assault weapon was a term dreamed up by the anti rights people to demonize scary guns with two or more of the Five Deadly Features of Assault Weapons: pistol grip, grenade launcher, collapsing stock, flash hider and bayonet lug (gasp!).

[Dilettante]

The NY Post article has at least one mistake in it. Clark never said he got a call "from the White House" about Iraq and 9/11. He said that he got calls from "people around the White House" which could mean anyone vaguely affilliated with the administration.

By the way, I think he was right about the Kosovo airport: we have let Russia get away with way, way too much crap over the last 12 years. In going into Kosovo they were violating the terms of earlier agreements. If Gen. Jackson had followed Clark's order, maybe there wouldn't have been a mystery Russian convoy pulling out of Iraq at the end of the war this year. :fire:

I'm going to wait and see what other stories come out.

[GSB]

This morning on the radio (not sure if it was NPR or local news, as I switch between them), the newscaster was summing up Clark's positions and said he "supports the right to keep and bear arms".

Yeah, as long as you're in the military or are a hunter.

The disinformation campaign has begun in ernest, and it appears to be doubleplusgood.

[MuzzleBlast]

This morning on the radio (not sure if it was NPR or local news, as I switch between them), the newscaster was summing up Clark's positions and said he "supports the right to keep and bear arms".
Daniel Shorr on NPR summed him up as being "in favor of abortion rights, affirmative action, and gun control." NPR in general is pretty pumped about him getting in the race.

[Sean Smith]

NPR... all the way to the left on your radio dial! :rolleyes:

[GSB]

Daniel Shorr on NPR summed him up as being "in favor of abortion rights, affirmative action, and gun control."

Wow, he's both pro gun control and a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms at the same time!

The news media are great, aren't they?

[Tamara]

Doubting the pronouncements of MiniTru is doubleplusungood. I think you are an oldthinker who unbellyfeels AmSoc. :scrutiny:

[sw442642]

Clark is the typical politician who goes off on the surface validity of the assault rifle claims but has never really studied the issue. All modern scholarship shows that the banning of the 19 weapons, features, mag capcity limits, etc. have had no effect on crime.

Thus, he thinks he can suck up to the ducky wucky hunters or drunk morons who go out for a couple of days at deer season as his show of support to "gun folks". Clinton did that too!

He has no chance anyway. There was an interesting column by David Broder that said it was too bad that Al Sharpton was Al Sharpton because he was the only one of the dwarfs that had any balls.

If your house is attacked by skeet then Clark is your guy.

[alan]

The following quote is attributed to Mr., formerly General Clark, lately candidate for high public office, the highest in this country.

"I have got 20 some odd guns in the house. I like to hunt. I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army, we have them.”

Letting slide, this perhaps a major error on my part, the facts of life re "assult weapoins", real as well as those incorrectly so characterized by some, for emotional appeal value, the following thoughts come to mind.

1. Re promotions in the military (Army), it has been alleged, perhaps correctly, that promotions up to and including the rank of Colonel can be obtained on the basis of demonstrated ability. Promotions to General Officer Rank, while ability hopefully figures therein, are essentially political in nature. One needs the proverbial "rabbi", possibly more than one "rabbi" being necessary.

2. Green, inexperienced Second Lt's. are more of less expected to say and within certain limits, to do dumb things. I have been told that such is more or less, the nature of the beast, as Second Lt's. usually don't know much about anything.

General Clark is neither stupid, nor has he, for a great many years, been a green, inexperienced Second Lt., so one wonders as to exactly why he made the above quoted, really dumb statement? Could it possibly that the "rabbi(s)" that pushed him to four star rank, deserted him, having failed to innoculate him against that most serious of political diseases, the Hoof In Mouth Syndrome? One wonders.

[waynzwld]

Has anyone else ever seen this?

http://johntitor.com/

I know it is all far fetched and it seems like a crazy hoax from a few years back, but read the part on the revolt and war told by this "time traveler".
With all this talk about ******* and Clark, this is beginning to not seem so far fetched. Coincedence? You decide.

Please don't call me a nut or one of the black helicopter crowd, because I usually dismiss these kind of things as very creative writting or escaped psycho patients, but with what is going on recently, it made me think of this again. I have a friend that is really into this weird stuff and I avoid talking with him about things like this. Usually, I just laugh at his wild rantings and accusations, but this time it made me do a double take.

[MeekandMild]

IIRC Hitler liked guns.

[benewton]

Isn't there a way the republicrats can lose?

'cause, if not, the path down the tubes seems really clear to me!