RKBA = Politics


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Lonest@r
November 6, 2008, 12:20 PM
From another thread that was CLOSED.

Let's keep the politics out of this one
It is unfortunate about the political affiliations of the sponsor and co-sponsors, but, be that as it may, can we please keep the party politics out of this.

As a recent member, I have noticed several threads closed down at the mere mention of politics and/or party affiliations.

My question to you is: In order to protect our RKBA (2A), how can we inform, or be informed, on how to vote without mentioning politics?

I would like to know politicians views on the issues, even those outside of my voting district, both REP and DEM. As we all know politicians true colors are not portayed accurately in the media.

I understand if it is to get out of hand and result to mud slinging.

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3pairs12
November 6, 2008, 12:32 PM
Typically those type of threads will go down hil fast. Activism isn't really the place to talk who did what or sponsered what. More of a get otu and do something about it rather than complain forum. APS is a good place to learn about the political side of it. Not trying to badger because I do agree with you however rules are rules and it is this set of rules that allow THR to remain friendly and informative.

hso
November 6, 2008, 12:59 PM
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350166 (#5) or any of the other "Why don't we do politics" threads.

The best answer is, we tried, it didn't work because some people couldn't keep from sinking to the lowest level.

MMCSRET
November 6, 2008, 01:03 PM
hso: it has finally come to my attention that politics is the lowest level, bottom feeders, no where to go but up. Looks like a good starting point from up here at your vantage point.

hso
November 6, 2008, 01:20 PM
You should have seen the old Politics forum? Endless chest beating and posturing, flaming, name calling (and that was from folks that were otherwise calm civil folks in other areas). It was bad enough that folks just stayed out of that area and left it to the inmates. Some good folks left over it. Some otherwise good folks got banned for their Hyde personalities in it. It ended up being shut down and restarted more than once and finally shut down for good.

ArfinGreebly had a good post on this so I'll excerpt the best part -
The Great Politics Purge Of 2007
Some of you may not have been here for the Great Politics Purge.

Some of you may not have had time to read Oleg's sticky describing the changes at THR from around that time.

In the brief time I've been a moderator, I've managed to track down the reasons and causes for the migration and the purge. Kind of a self-imposed homework assignment.

One of the principles of The High Road is civility. Passion is fine, argument is fine -- but attack the argument, not the arguer, and spirited discussion is invited -- but not personal attacks and slurs.

Now, that's a bedrock principle here. If you can't be civil in your conduct here, you'll be cautioned and, if you still can't be civil, you'll be gone.

Something we learned the hard way was that -- for whatever reasons -- it is simply too hard for people to be civil in political discussions. Very much like civility in religious discussions. Sooner or later, someone who's a valuable forum member is going to just lose it and brain some complete moron loser idiot waste of oxygen with a frying pan . . . and we wind up having to ban the valued member. Often we wind up banning the oxygen thief, too, but the collateral damage -- to rational, reasonable, experienced, valued members -- is often great and tragic.

Professional trolls -- really well-disciplined provocateurs -- would show up during the run-up to elections and cause havoc. The noise index in politics got to the point where moderators gave up trying to keep order in threads, and just locked them, banning offenders who threw insults or other personal attacks.

After seeing that pattern too many times in the realm of politics, we (actually Oleg and the moderators & admins at the time, I was not yet a mod) decided it would be better for the board to lose the incivility attendant with politics than to continue to lose friends and valued members because they were suckered into a serious rules violation.

I'm sure most of you consider yourselves stable, rational, reasoned people.

In the face of a person whose practiced vocation is provoking others, with seemingly "reasoned" but outrageous premises, politely-stated blatant distortions and falsehoods, it's easier than you might believe to just call the guy the name he really has earned. And suddenly you find yourself banned. For a personal attack.

The other guy might also get the hammer for trolling, but not always. Some of these guys are very smooth.

I've gone back through the archives and seen the frustration and despair among the moderators from that time. I've reviewed some of the material that led, finally, to removing politics in an effort to avoid losing any more long-time members who were, after all, simply calling a spade a spade.

You see, THR is populated largely by self-sufficient folks who don't go running to mommy and daddy every time they see something they don't like. They're more inclined to handle it themselves. They're accustomed to taking out their own trash. So, when they see a troll, they're very likely to pummel him personally rather than "whining" to the moderators.

The professional-grade trolls and provocateurs know this, and it's cake for them to pretend to be earnest and sincere and "misled" as they bait their hooks and trail them in the shallows, patiently waiting for the bite they know will come. Sooner or later, some guy with more than 7,000 posts and four years on the forum will call this troll on it, and speak his name publicly. And then the mods have to issue a warning. And, depending on just how independent the member is, and what his "suffer fools gladly" threshold is, he may simply blow up, and we lose him forever.

So, in consideration of all this, we no longer do religion and politics here.

We have APS for that now. The moderation style there is a little different, and they've adapted to the necessities of dealing with oxygen thieves and trolls.

And, getting killed there doesn't mean getting killed here.

So we continue to have a place here where we can conduct the civil discourse of firearms, their ownership, the rights attendant thereto, their proper use, the development of the skills in their use, and so on.

We do appreciate that activism is a necessary part of retaining the right to keep and bear arms, and the Activism sub-forum was established for that.

We also appreciate the need for a place to discuss the current and pending laws that affect how and where we use firearms, so we have the Legal sub-forum.

What we do NOT have is the place where we can go to rant about politicians, stupid policies, idiotic laws, and the decline and fall of America.

We no longer wish to lose quality members to the inevitable baiting that accompanies these things.

So, really, if you MUST talk politics -- beyond actual activism -- then go to APS. The majority of the membership there are also members here. The moderators are also members here (and some do mod work in both places).

Activism isn't ranting or whining. All ranting and whining about politics and religion has been assigned to APS.

It's a decision that has been long since made and a decision what wasn't lightly made.

Lonest@r
November 6, 2008, 02:10 PM
APS is a good place to learn about the political side of it.

Where is a good place to look/talk/discuss FACTS, as we all know the media does not present facts very well. I'm not into the flaming, name calling and mud slinging, as that is something the media does do well.

For example, where can I find real candidate voting records and beliefs on the issues. Better yet, where can I find personal opinions/arguments from the residents from the area in which the candidate serves. I've heard plenty of anti-gun arguments for Obama, but what I haven't heard, until lately, is that McCains voting record on guns was not much better.

Not to mention, the issue of RKBA, or any hot topic issues for that matter, were not brought up during debates, it was all economy and IRAQ. Sure, no one wants to fight war and everyone would like to have great economy, but what about the 'real' issues, the ones they never talk about.

For example the guy who voted for OBAMA simply because of differences on IRAQ strategy, but is blind to the fact he will have tax increase, and may end up losing 2A rights, while others are granted 'special' civil rights?

EDIT: BTW, I respect your decision to drop the politics forums, nobody wants to participate in a inconsiderate, close-minded forum, however I would expect some political hearsay to occur, especially during a election year.

3pairs12
November 6, 2008, 03:02 PM
APS is not a media site. it Armed Polite Society. Its like the cousin of THR on the very top right corner of your screen there is a hyperlink it says APS.

hso
November 6, 2008, 03:44 PM
I respect your decision to drop the politics forums, nobody wants to participate in a inconsiderate, close-minded forum, however I would expect some political hearsay to occur, especially during a election year.

And that's the unfortunate contradictory problem. We'd like to have a civil political forum with respectful open-minded participation, but what we got, even with loud warnings and mass bannings, was the opposite. BTDT, got monkey poo stains on the T-shirt.

COMPNOR
November 6, 2008, 06:48 PM
http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

Should be a good place to start. Note, this was found in the Activism forum. Just need to do some looking.

hso
November 6, 2008, 09:44 PM
Note, this was found in the Activism forum. Just need to do some looking.

Thanks COMPNOR.

COMPNOR
November 6, 2008, 09:48 PM
No problem. Now I remember!

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