[Futo Inu]

I've heard it said that the CZs are so strong/tough that they can handle the hottest 9mm, +P+, yada, yada. Well, I'm sure that's true. However, can anyone tell me, are other full-sized pistols just as strong? I'm particularly interested in whether Browning HPs or clones are as strong. Are there any brands that you know for certain that can either definitely, OR, definitely not, hold up to tens of thousands of +P ammo without undue parts breakage or slide cracking, etc.? I'm interested in full-sized 9x19s only for this question. Thank you.

Other CZ-related questions, if anyone knows;

1. Anyone have a Champion model? Is it worth the money? Does porting even offer any discernable muzzle flip difference in 9x19? Or would you have to have a .40 to make the porting worthwhile to have? Are the stock grips on the Champion thin, normal, or particularly thick? These are beautiful pistols to my eye.

2. Is there such a thing (model) that is a "85B *D* Combat" - i.e. an 85B Combat with a decocker instead of a manual safety, like the 75BD?

[Morgan]

HKs are built like tanks. The USP45 can reportedly shoot .45 Super with no modification. I'm sure the 9mm could take a steady diet of proof loads, if that's what you're up to.

The Browning P35 is not as robust as the CZ. Both fine guns, but for lots of +p shooting, I'd certainly use a CZ. I'd definitly go to a higher power recoil spring in the CZ, especially as it has been rumored that some of the stock ones aren't as heavy as they should be, causing some slide stop breakages. See Stephen Camp's excellent CZ75 critique (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ75.htm) for more info.

The Champion sure looks nice, but I doubt porting would do much, if anything, in 9mm.

The standard 75D model is, I think, the closest you'll come to a Combat Decocker. Alas, the decocker is not amidextrous, and I don't know if one is available. I'd call CZ-USA and see what they say.

[Futo Inu]

Thanks Morgan - good info. I'll check S. Camp's info. I'm really not interested in ANYTHING ambidextrous. I just like the left-side de-cocker and like the other features of the Combat and D models when combined (firing pin safety, extended mag release, fully adjustable sights, trigger overtravel adjustment).

[PCRCCW]

Yep the CZ's are built tough. But...there alot of tough guns out here also.
The biggest thing to look for when shooting LOTS of +p is a fully supported chamber. The BHP isnt as tough IMO, as the CZ..but alot of shooters have a bazillion rounds through their BHP's and that says alot about there overall longevity and strength.

The Champion/IPSC models are much different than the 75 models. They are built on a heavier frame much like the 97 B. They do this to use the larger mags for Competition. Also the hammer, sear and trigger are alot different than the 75 series....even the SA version of the gun.
The Comp. guns have OTB 1 1/2# triggers that rival the best on the market.

The compensator does reduce the guns percieved recoil enough to make a difference in 40 Squirrel and Weasel (kidding :rolleyes: ) Its a very popular caliber in Comp. shooting and seems to be gaining popularity. It may make a difference in +p 9mm but in the seemingly medium velocity loads Comp shooters use in 9mm...it may or may not be that helpful.

Shoot well.

[Futo Inu]

Thanks; that's good info - the IPSC/Champion models sound like they'd definitely be too large of grips to be comfortable. Just wish they had a Combat model without ambi stuff, but with a decocker.

[Zak Smith]

FWIW, I put a 9-10 lb recoil springs in my CZ-75B-SA and my 85 Combat. They seem to cycle quicker and "flip" less now shooting standard ammo.

-z

[goon]

I think I need to put a stiffer spring in my CZ. It is reliable and is OK with most factory loads, but certain loads do seem to batter it a little too much.
I am sure that one would stand up pretty well to a steady diet of standard loads with a little hot stuff mixed in once in awhile.
I would think that the CZ would take the beating better than a BHP. The CZ is just beefier and the extra size would make it more pleasant to shoot as well.

On the other hand, a gunsmith that I know once commented to me that in thirty years of smithing he had never had to work on a Hi-Power.
That says something.

[makarov]

The CZ-85 Combat does not have the firing pin safety. It is why it supposedly has a trigger that is better than the standard B (and BD) models. Mine is pretty good. I don't like the decocker models because you cannot shoot them cocked and locked. Get comfortable lowering the hammer and you will gain flexibility in your carry options. Hammer down or cocked and locked. It is one of the things that makes the CZ a great design.

[mr. e]

I load my own ammo and keep pretty careful records about how a pistol behaves with successively powerful loads. One of the problems I noticed with my model year 2000 BHP was that the roll pin from the safety kept working itself loose with more powerful loads. I think it's because frame is hammered by the slide due to a light recoil spring. I haven't had any similar problem with my CZ using the same loads.

[Futo Inu]

There is an 85B Combat ... Why isn't there a 75B Combat?!? Or is there? I don't need the ambi stuff, but I like the other features of the Combat, even if I can't get the decocker..

[Preacherman]

The Hi-Power seems to have difficulty when fed a steady diet of +P or +P+ loads. I've known several gunsmiths who've commented on this. Their recommendation has been to use standard-pressure ammo for practice, and carry the hot stuff for defensive use, firing only enough to remain familiarized with its point of impact compared to standard pressure loads. They also recommend a stronger recoil spring for the hot stuff.