Does Florida allow long gun sales to out of staters?


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secamp32
November 7, 2008, 03:29 PM
I'm going to be in Orlando the same week as a gun show and I might want to pick up a toy before they are all Obamazied :barf:

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everallm
November 7, 2008, 03:32 PM
It's legal so long as it goes through a Florida FFL and whatever you buy is legal in your home state.

barnetmill
November 7, 2008, 03:41 PM
I have never made an out of state firearm purchase. I was not aware that you had to show or swear that a long gun was legal in your home state prior to buying one out of state.

NavyLCDR
November 8, 2008, 01:08 AM
It's legal so long as it goes through a Florida FFL and whatever you buy is legal in your home state.

There is one addition to that statement... and legal to purchase the long gun from the state the sale is in. Federal law requires the sale meet the conditions of sale as set forth in state law of both the seller and the purchaser. For instance, Florida Law stipulates that the condition of the out of state sale must be the state is contiguous to Florida. So a Florida resident could not buy a long gun from an Oregon FFL, if my memory of geography has not faded :uhoh:

everallm
November 8, 2008, 05:46 PM
NavyLT,

I believe and I'm happy to be shown to be wrong, but this is related to old law, pre NICS checks and specifically about personal FTF purchasing and has no legal relevance if the FFL is involved.

NavyLCDR
November 9, 2008, 02:10 AM
everallm,

Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 922 United States Code, notice the part about comply with the legal conditions of sale in both states:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

States then, in their state laws, set forth the legal conditions of sales. Some states have no further regulation, some states regulate only purchases by their residents, some states regulate whom the dealers in that state can sell to. Here is an example...Florida regulates it's residents to making purchases only in contiguous states:

790.28 Purchase of rifles and shotguns in contiguous states.--A resident of this state may purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state contiguous to this state if he or she conforms to applicable laws and regulations of the United States, of the state where the purchase is made, and of this state.

Many people will then argue, "But the state law doesn't forbid purchasing in other states, it only says may purchase in contiguous states." That argument is false because of the wording of 18 USC 922 - the Federal statute says meets the legal conditions of sale, the statute does NOT say "unless prohibited by state law."

everallm
November 9, 2008, 08:27 AM
Now that really is bizarre law.

An NJ resident can buy in FL but not vice-versa......

vulpro
February 22, 2009, 08:07 PM
I'm an Illinois resident who owns property in Florida. Everyone always told me that I had to have a Florida Drivers License in order to purchase a firearm in FL... although I did purchase an H&K P2000 in Ocala last October and had it shipped o my FFL in Illinois.

Anyway, I was in Bass Pro Shop today and talked with their gun department. They are happy to sell me anything I want if I can produce " a document" that proves "Florida Property Ownership", like a real estate tax bill. I questioned the guy further, and he told me the law was recently amended in November 08 to allow transfers to out-of-state people who own property in Florida. They would accept my Illinois Drivers License and a Florida Tax bill as evidence of that.

And because I have a Florida CCW permit, I can walk out with the gun immediately, same day.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Can anyone confirm this for me or direct us to the proof of this, because I'm guessing a lot of gun shops are unaware of this 'new law'.

Thanks

vulpro
February 22, 2009, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the info.

Bass Pro says the technicality was recently addressed (Nov 08) and they just received all new forms to use when selling firearms.

Like I said, with an Illinois Drivers License and a Florida Real Estate Tax bill, thy will sell me anything in the store. This is certainly different from the info I have previously received from Gun Shops in the area...

Thanks again

jbkebert
February 22, 2009, 08:59 PM
I thought it odd. I took my family to Disney world two years ago. We stayed at shaded of green resort. If you are military check this place out. Anyway My son and I went into the bass pro-shop in Orlando. We were looking around and my son was looking at guns. I made the comment that it didn't do any good to look we could not buy anyway. The clerk ask me as to why that was. I told him I was from Kansas. He replied so what. So I said you can't sell a gun to me if my home is that far away. He said sure he could and check a binder behind the counter and stood by his comment. I know in Kansas you can buy if you live in Kansas, Missouri,Nebraska, Iowa and to my knowledge that is it.

NavyLCDR
February 23, 2009, 01:54 AM
I'm an Illinois resident who owns property in Florida. Everyone always told me that I had to have a Florida Drivers License in order to purchase a firearm in FL... although I did purchase an H&K P2000 in Ocala last October and had it shipped o my FFL in Illinois.

Anyway, I was in Bass Pro Shop today and talked with their gun department. They are happy to sell me anything I want if I can produce " a document" that proves "Florida Property Ownership", like a real estate tax bill. I questioned the guy further, and he told me the law was recently amended in November 08 to allow transfers to out-of-state people who own property in Florida. They would accept my Illinois Drivers License and a Florida Tax bill as evidence of that.

And because I have a Florida CCW permit, I can walk out with the gun immediately, same day.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Can anyone confirm this for me or direct us to the proof of this, because I'm guessing a lot of gun shops are unaware of this 'new law'.

Thanks
What makes you think I might respond to this thread?!? :D

OK. Here's the deal. First of all residency:
Residency is defined in 27 CFR 478.11 as:
State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present in a State
with the intention of making a home in that
State. If an individual is on active duty as a
member of the Armed Forces, the individ-
ual's State of residence is the State in
which his or her permanent duty station is
located.

For the purposes of firearms transactions that requires two things: physical presence in a state and intent to make that state a home. Do you meet both of those? Property ownership itself does not meet both those requirements.

Second. Identification. Proper identification is defined in 27 CFR 478.11 as:
Identification document. A document
containing the name, residence address,
date of birth, and photograph of the holder
and which was made or issued by or un-
der the authority of the United States
Government, a State, political subdivision
of a State, a foreign government, political
subdivision of a foreign government, an
international governmental or an interna-
tional quasi-governmental organization
which, when completed with information
concerning a particular individual, is of a
type intended or commonly accepted for
the purpose of identification of individuals.

Any combination of documents which establishes all of the above may be used. Typically, let's say you reside in Florida part of the year, if you do not have photo ID issued by the state of Florida, an FFL will not accept you as a Florida resident.

Now. regarding handgun sales vs. long gun sales. According to 18 USC 922 (b), a handgun must be purchased from a dealer (or private party) in the same state of residence as the purchaser. IE: NO out of state handgun purchases, period.

According to 18 USC 922(b)(3) as amended in 1984, a long gun may be purchased from an FFL in any state so long as the purchaser's and seller's state laws do not specifically prohibited the sale. All the "contiguous state" requirements went away in the 1984 ammendment.

So, the bottom line is, if you are not present in Florida with the intent of making Florida a home for at least part of the year, you are not, legally, a Florida resident, regardless of property ownership. If you meet the residency criteria, but you cannot prove it to an FFL by a combination of documents, then that FFL will not sell a handgun to you.

Even if you are a Florida resident by legal definition, but you have Indiana state ID and none else, you can still buy long guns in Florida, from dealers, due to the out of state long gun purchase exception in 18 USC 922 (b)(3).

I have no idea what change in law the Bass Pro guy is talking about in November 2008. It certainly was not any changes to the Federal law posted above. But, hey, if the Bass Pro FFL is willing to sell you what you want, based on what ID they ask for, that's entirely on them, regardless of the legality of the transaction. If it is an illegal transaction, but you do not lie on any form or present any false ID, then the penalties for an illegal transaction are on them...not you.

NavyLCDR
February 23, 2009, 02:03 PM
I know in Kansas you can buy if you live in Kansas, Missouri,Nebraska, Iowa and to my knowledge that is it.

All the contiguous states' requirements in Federal law went away with an ammendment in 1986. It only applies to long guns purchased from FFL's, though. Now, a sale in Kansas would be legal to residents of probably 40-45 different states.

NavyLCDR
February 23, 2009, 03:58 PM
There is one addition to that statement... and legal to purchase the long gun from the state the sale is in. Federal law requires the sale meet the conditions of sale as set forth in state law of both the seller and the purchaser. For instance, Florida Law stipulates that the condition of the out of state sale must be the state is contiguous to Florida. So a Florida resident could not buy a long gun from an Oregon FFL, if my memory of geography has not faded

I just realized that this thread was ressurected from November 2008. My statement above was incorrect. That all changed in 1986. The state laws that say "allowed to purchase in contiguous states" now mean "allowed to purchase in any state". August 2004 BATFE FFL Newsletter clears that up.

winston smith
February 23, 2009, 07:30 PM
I am a resident of NY; I went to CT and bought a long gun. I had to wait 14 days to pickup the gun. Thanks, NY.

I once went to VA, turned in my drivers' license for a VA license, and became a resident of the state. For one day. How long do you have to be a resident before you can purchase a gun? Depends on the state law.

crazy-mp
February 23, 2009, 11:31 PM
I once went to VA, turned in my drivers' license for a VA license, and became a resident of the state. For one day. How long do you have to be a resident before you can purchase a gun? Depends on the state law.

And to think they say only gun shows have loopholes :rolleyes:

Babarsac
February 23, 2009, 11:34 PM
I was just up in Norfolk for work and one of the guys in my survey crew left for home with a brand new Bushmaster M-4....I settled for a Mosin sniper.

divemedic
February 24, 2009, 11:05 AM
I once went to VA, turned in my drivers' license for a VA license, and became a resident of the state. For one day. How long do you have to be a resident before you can purchase a gun? Depends on the state law.

my understanding here is that you were in violation of Federal Law. The law doesn't care what your DL says- you are a resident wherever you maintain a home. The fact that you got a drivers license form VA does not change the fact that you are a NY resident- all you did was FALSIFY your residency.

Get caught, Federal felony.

winston smith
February 24, 2009, 02:27 PM
YO!

I didn't buy a gun. That was the '70s man! :cool:

OK, I was in my 20s and looking for work. And that WAS my home for a day; I didn't falsify anything. After I got to the job, the terms changed, and so did I.

All I found was that Gravitons have negative time ordering, and reversed my direction, also.:banghead:

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