LEO's and CCW's


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dfunde01
November 7, 2008, 08:14 PM
Why is it that so many law enforcement personnel are opposed to issuing CCW permits to private citizens?

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Larry Ashcraft
November 7, 2008, 08:18 PM
I didn't know "so many" were.

Care to cite some numbers?

Frog48
November 7, 2008, 08:40 PM
Depends alot on the political climate of your area. In my neck of the woods, most cops dont care one way or the other.

And there are quite a few that do strongly support concealed-carry, and they usually cite the fact that CHL holders are subject to background checks and firearms proficiency testing, so the odds are high that the CHL holder is a "good guy".

gunseller2
November 7, 2008, 08:42 PM
Not in my neck of the woods! What part of the country to you live in dfunde01. I suppose it depends on the political bent of the chief
LEO.

tpaw
November 7, 2008, 08:48 PM
Why is it that so many law enforcement personnel are opposed to issuing CCW permits to private citizens?

I don't think it's the mass's of LEO's that are opposed. It's more likely the stars and bars in the department who have to kiss political a$$ in order to keep their job.
The average LEO's don't get to vote on things like that, it's the higher ups who rub shoulders with the mayors, congressman, senators, etc., who sing with the Brady bunch.
All the LEO's that I know are pro CCW, provided that a background check is done, and that the individual is proficiency tested. Doing so will hopefully weed out those who should not have a CCW for various reasons, felon, mentally unstabe, etc.
Whatever process the LEO has to go through to carry a firearm is probably what they would like to see of everyone seeking a CCW. That's only my guess?
However, after Jan. 20th, 09', CCW's may become a whole different story.

heavyshooter
November 7, 2008, 09:13 PM
I am in a line of work that puts me in regular contact with LEO's. Without exception they recommend CCW. Many of them have wives that have CCW's and it was at the behest of the local officers that I sought out my own license.

On the flip side, my father in Texas was telling me that many of the officers are opposed to their "closet law." I believe it allows all felony free adults to carry in their car as long as it is in a "closet" (i.e. console or glove compartment). Many of the officers are saying that they are going to arrest anyone with a gun even if they are complying with the law. My guess is that they are unhappy with the lack of backgroung checks. This would not apply to CCW or CHL.

distra
November 7, 2008, 09:20 PM
Most of the officers I shoot with recommend carrying. They know they cannot be everywhere all the time. Average PD arrival time in my area ~20min. That's a long time when trouble comes knocking.

Treo
November 7, 2008, 09:31 PM
Our local sherrif is one of the most pro-gun politicians I know of.
When Colorado was a may issue state he made it county policy that all CHP was shall issue.

CSPD .on the other hand, is institutionally anti armed citizen

Deanimator
November 7, 2008, 09:32 PM
Ohio's a shall issue state. Doesn't matter what anybody thinks.

dfunde01
November 7, 2008, 09:46 PM
"Larry Ashcraft -I didn't know "so many" were. Care to cite some numbers? "

Please note that I did not say "the majority" or "most". I have seen and read of examples such as Richmond County GA where the sheriff was opposed and as a result his deputies have been documented harassing CCW permit holders and holding their weapons for no reasonable or legal reason. In a thread on THR concerning the Parks Service upcoming ruling on CCW's on federal land the retired rangers association (or some such group) weighed in against allowing CCW's. I have seen public statements from some LEO organizations that were negative re: CCW's. It may be that the brass is diving for political cover. In the recent legislation in Georgia to expand CCW rights a number of LEO's and related organizations, not just brass, were making statement in opposition.

I am surprised that I have seen as much opposition from LEO's, a minority I am sure, but I am curious why the LEO's that do oppose private citizen CCW's feel that way since their stated reasons are always vague and non specific.

I will add, that most of the negative attitudes I have seen seem to come from the top and bottom of the LEO food chain. For example the top brass and groups such a transit police.

MT GUNNY
November 7, 2008, 10:09 PM
I will step out on a limb and say 90% of sheriffs in rural areas are pro 2nd and pro CCP. Especially in Montana.

Johnny Guest
November 7, 2008, 10:14 PM
I retired from a full career as a peace officer at the end of 2004. Most of the agency heads and almost all individual officers I knew were okay with legal carry by private persons. My sheriff was pro-guns and hunting, and he did a lot to promote my activity as a CHL instructor. I could always arrange my schedule to attend retraining or to conduct a class. One class I taught included five members of the sheriff's family, and family members of the chief deputy and other deputies.

Also, when the Texas CHL law was new, there was a lot of discussion about the provision allowing officers to disarm licensees. It soon became SOP with Texas Department of Public Safety and MOST agencies, that licensees would NOT be disarmed so long as there were no unusual circumstances.

Typical traffic stop dialogue:

Officer: Good afternoon, sir. I'm Deputy Jones with Roosevelt County Sheriff's Office. May I see your operator license and proof of insurance?

Motorist: Sure. And here's my concealed handgun license, too.

Ofcr: Thank you. Are you carrying your handgun now? Where is it?

Mtrst: Yes, in a holster on my right side.

Ofcr: That's fine, sir. Please just leave it in place while we do a little paper work.

The general idea is that only persons with a clean record qualify for a CHL. There's no reason to complicate a routine traffic matter by handling a (presumably) loaded firearm. The licensee is aware the officer may disarm him if he wishes, and doesn't want to aggravate the transaction.

It works out well.

BullfrogKen
November 7, 2008, 10:18 PM
So many?

Where do you live, and how many Officers do you actually know?

Blacksmoke
November 7, 2008, 10:24 PM
Our District Attorney is 100% for CCW. He used to give talks at the NRA CCW class in town. We had a big shoot out here in June. He came up for a community meeting and said he was all for citizens defending themselves even if it meant firing an AK down the road at badguys in a car.

Our Sheriff? He is never in the paper and is never seen by anyone. So, I have no idea what his opinion is. He is an improvement over his predecessor. That guy locked himself out of the Sheriff's office while I was with him to get fingerprints for my application. We had to wait for one of his deputies to return from his meal break to be let into the building. Then there was his predecessor who shot himself in the butt while taking a dump- he was unfamiar with how Glocks operate.

What this tells me is that their opinions do not matter much.

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 7, 2008, 10:47 PM
I've never met a LEO in my life who cared whatsoever about CCWs. The one's I know personally actually endorse it. And when I've been pulled over, they didn't care in the least. Methinks the OP needs to cite some sources.

Flatbedder
November 7, 2008, 11:14 PM
Anti LEO troll. I meet alot of LEO everyday ....DOT inspections and the like.
They all support CCW. The are glad that individuals are taking responsibility for their own safety.

devilc
November 7, 2008, 11:21 PM
Many police chiefs are appointed by their liberal mayors and city councils.
The National Association of Chiefs of Police is a VERY progressive body that is often at odds with the FOP.
Liberals use endorsements from them to claim cops support various schemes that most cops bristle at.
Most cops, even federal ones, love guns.

jnyork
November 7, 2008, 11:30 PM
This is not a problem at all in Wyoming.

Kind of Blued
November 8, 2008, 12:53 AM
Our local sherrif is one of the most pro-gun politicians I know of.
When Colorado was a may issue state he made it county policy that all CHP was shall issue.

I'm up north a bit, but I appreciate you mentioning this fellow. It's nice to see a politician or two still standing strong around here these days.

My best guess on the LEO/CCW issue is that it isn't really an issue, and has nothing to do with them being Police Officers. The same LEOs that think you shouldn't be carrying would feel the same way if they worked for an insurance company. They're probably not "gun people", and if it made sense to NOT carry a gun on their job, they'd be the first one's the leave it behind.

Now, as mentioned, depending on where you live, "people" (in general) tend to have a different majority opinion about private gun ownership.

biggiesmalls
November 8, 2008, 05:48 AM
here in texas a lot of leos have chls. don't know why, since they don't really need one. but i've know 4 leos who have chls. of course 1 of them was an instructor, but still... anyone care to chime in on why they would need one?

WC145
November 8, 2008, 06:10 AM
I'm an LEO and I'm all for concealed carry for law abiding citizens, especially since I live and work in a very rural area. Out here when the SHTF and seconds count the cops are only minutes away, you need to be able to hold your own for a little while until we can get there.

Blacksmoke
November 8, 2008, 06:59 AM
I once spent about three hours on the side of a rural highway with a Colorado State Trooper, an older veteran of many years on the job. I had roped an elk bull calf orphan that was sick and would not get off the black-top of the highway. A neighbor lady wanted to take the elk calf home for adoption. So, we all had to wait for the local game warden so show up and spent the morning sitting on the shoulder of the highway with the calf who by this time just laid down on the grass. Anyway, the point is I was packing a side arm concealed (with NM permit). The holster had to be visible from undey my coat. The Trooper never said a word about it during the time we talked while waiting. I never thought to bring it up as it seemed irrlevent to the situation.

The point is why bring up a concealed weapon during a routine traffic stop when all I am doing is sitting behind the wheel? The tension level is about zero. I guess if I was ordered out of the car then it would be appropriate to bring it up. There is not specific guidance on this point in the NM codes.

ROKK
November 8, 2008, 07:04 AM
I'm an LEO and have supported CC since before I was. The sheriff in the county I work in issues many CC permits. The sheriff of the county I live in won't issue any. Seems like personal preference.

RKBABob
November 8, 2008, 10:09 AM
The 2nd in command of our city police said he though that all law abiding citizens should carry a firearm. I just about fell off my chair when he said it. :what: Prior to that, I had assumed that the police were largely anti-ccw.

mgkdrgn
November 8, 2008, 10:51 AM
My CCW class here was taught by two former LEO's ... one local and one FBI type.

No one knows better than an LEO how quickly some thug can screw up or take your life, and how little chance the LEO has of preventing that from happening.

That being the case, it wouldn't surprise me that the LEO's that are opposed to citizens being able to protect themselves are the ones on "power ego trips" that we end seeing in the news all the time. The fewer of them we have, the better off we'll all be.

Why is it that so many law enforcement personnel are opposed to issuing CCW permits to private citizens?

bdickens
November 8, 2008, 11:02 AM
On the flip side, my father in Texas was telling me that many of the officers are opposed to their "closet law." I believe it allows all felony free adults to carry in their car as long as it is in a "closet" (i.e. console or glove compartment). Many of the officers are saying that they are going to arrest anyone with a gun even if they are complying with the law. My guess is that they are unhappy with the lack of background checks. This would not apply to CCW or CHL.



1) It is not the place of an LEO to be opposed to or in favor of a particular law. It is the place of an LEO to enforce the law as it stands.


2) The "closet law" you so eloquently refer to is called the Motorist's Protection Act. It came about because for the longest time, it was illegal to carry a handgun in your vehicle unless you were "traveling." The courts were begging the Legislature to define "traveling" and they never would.

Finally in 2005, the Legislature clarified the law and said that if you are in your own car and not otherwise breaking the law, except for traffic violations, you were presumed to be traveling. A small handful of mostly urban District Attorneys, most notably Harris County's Chuck Rosenthal, said that they didn't care what the law was, if you got caught with a gun in your car you were going to jail and the courts would sort it out - "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

The Texas Legislature historically has taken a very dim view of local authorities going off and doing their own thing and ignoring their intent. So the very next session in 2007 (the Legislature meets for only six months every two years. God bless Texas!), they came down and said "Okay, Mr. Rosenthal, since you don't seem to understand our intent, let's see if we can make it even more clear for you." They basically removed the traveling exception and removed the defense to prosecution and just made it legal to go ahead and carry a handgun in your car as long as it is concealed. Thus was born the "Motorist's Protection Act of 2007."


So, if an LEO in Texas were to "arrest anyone with a gun even if they are complying with the law," he would be breaking the law and opening up himself and his department to legal liability. Texas LEOs tend to be well-versed in such laws and the Motorist's Protection Act was so well publicized when it took effect that you would have had to have been under a rock to not know about it.

A-190
November 8, 2008, 11:07 AM
no problems here. People who take the time to get proper CCW will and have never been our problem in the first place.

Besides, the CCW's are making for a more polite society......

jaholder1971
November 8, 2008, 11:24 AM
Most all of the LEOs around here do, too.

I went in to apply for my CHL a year ago, added a memp regarding a previous domestic battery arrest (dismissed) that I thought would hang up my license app.

Sherriff took a look, nodded and said "No Problem".

gbran
November 8, 2008, 11:51 AM
I'm in CA and in one of the most conservative counties. While CA is a "may issue" state, my county (Kern) is nearly "shall issue". As a matter of fact, I'm not sure a person can be elected to the top sheriff spot here unless they are pro CCW.

However, I had one bad incident on an out of town job near the SF bay area. I had to go to a jobsite during the nite to check on our equipment and was confronted by 2 cops. I was on foot BTW. After I told them I was carrying, it really went downhill fast. 3-4 other cruisers were sent and I stayed cuffed in the back of the patrol car while they desparately tried to figure out how to charge me with something. I was polite, but they seemed very confused and disapointed at having to let me go WITH my gun.

BrianB
November 8, 2008, 11:56 AM
Believe it or not, most of the CHICAGO police officers I know are pro-CCW! They know the stats, and are frustrated with the Chicago/Crook County politics.

JustinL
November 8, 2008, 03:25 PM
My CCW instructor was a retired small-town officer. My instructor here in Jacksonville is retired from the Air Force's OSI. According to his experiences, most JSO deputies are fairly pro-CCW, but there are a number who are opposed to any civilian gun ownership at all.

rondog
November 8, 2008, 04:17 PM
Question for all the LEO's.....

When you have a contact with a citizen, would you PREFER to know he/she has a CCW? Should people tell you, or keep it a secret unless you ask or find out on your computer?

I know most of you are pro-CCW, but are you "pro enough" to just "not want to know", or is this info that you want/need right up front?

Personally, I want the LEO to know I'm armed, so there's no surprises. And I'd think most LEO's would want to know, for their own safety and peace of mind.

Just wondering how y'all feel about this, since I've never had the opportunity to have this chat with a LEO in person yet.

Treo
November 8, 2008, 05:06 PM
When you have a contact with a citizen, would you PREFER to know he/she has a CCW? Should people tell you, or keep it a secret unless you ask or find out on your computer?

Interesting question, but with all due respect I don't care what their preference is as long as I'm not required to disclose I won't

ROKK
November 8, 2008, 06:02 PM
When you have a contact with a citizen, would you PREFER to know he/she has a CCW? Should people tell you, or keep it a secret unless you ask or find out on your computer?


I can't really imagine any LEO not wanting to know who is armed in any given situation. I think it would be better to disclose it up front than have them notice it on thier own.

Rodentman
November 8, 2008, 08:01 PM
Every LEO I have asked supports the shall issue CCW in MN. They note that the public thought there would be an increase in crime, but that hasn't happened.

I understand that in MN, a CCW holder is linked to license plates so an LEO will know I am a permit holder by running my plates. Hasn't happened yet.

I am required to disclose if I am carrying if asked.

MedWheeler
November 8, 2008, 10:16 PM
A resounding agreement to those who stated that rank-and-file troops in LE either don't care, or actually support, private carry. I did when I was in LE, and so did most, if not all, my colleagues.
When a post with this ambiguous a question on this matter pops up (this ain't the first by any means), I can only think that the poster is some unfortunate soul that lives in a LE-issue-controlled jurisdiction, and has just been turned down. Fortunately, for me at least, I live in Florida.

Agent-J
November 9, 2008, 12:09 AM
Hah, this post makes me laugh considering I'm in NY. It is for all intents and purposes IMPOSSIBLE to get a CCW permit for use in NYC unless the mayor or chief of police's personal # is in your cell phone... or you are famous and can write checks with 3-4 zero's on it.

I believe in NY it's a class E felony to even mention the word gun.

GRIZ22
November 9, 2008, 12:09 AM
I can't really imagine any LEO not wanting to know who is armed in any given situation. I think it would be better to disclose it up front than have them notice it on thier own.

I agree with this. The law may not require you to tell a LEO but I think any would feel better if you told him. I was a LEO for 31 years and would prefer someone tell me they're carrying. It answers the question before I see it.

Most LEOs are either pro CCW or don't care, if the law says it's legal it's legal. There are a minority of elistists anti-CCW and would be the ones most mass media would quote. Appointed LE officials reflect the opinions of who appointed them to keep their jobs. Elected LE officials usually voice the opinion that will get them re-elected.

Jesse H
November 9, 2008, 09:11 AM
City cop here. I like it when I run into good folks with guns. Most of the time I don't bother writing them tickets or checking for warrants.

David904
November 9, 2008, 10:49 AM
I've never had a negative interaction with an LEO due to carrying a firearm CCW or otherwise.

I did have one sort of incident with a young state trooper in CT. I got pulled over for speeding on the highway (70/55) and he lit into me. He didn't listen to me as I declared my CCW and the firearm on my person. Upon noticing my CCW permit that I handed him with my other paperwork, he checked himself and pulled up short - so to speak. He made a quick statement that I should have notified him right from the beginning that I was carrying.

I replied that I believed that I had but that we must have cross-talked, and that I regretted the confusion.

He said nothing more about it, was professional throughout the rest of the stop, did NOT disarm me, and gave me a ticket for 10 mph less than I was traveling.

I have always notified that I am carrying as a matter of courtesy for the officer.

jaholder1971
November 9, 2008, 11:10 AM
You're better off being up front with the cop and advising him early into the contact, even if you don't have to.

First, carrying with a permit isn't illegal. So telling him you're armed and presenting the permit isn't going to get you into trouble. Besides, most CCW permits are tied into you DL registries, so he'll know once he runs your DL.

Second, traffic stops and domestics are the 2 areas where cops get killed. He's already in a heightened state of awareness (or should be) and is already assuming you may be armed. What informing him does is confirm you might be armed and that you're legal to do so.

He might not lower his guard, but it does drastically reduce the chances that you'll get the officer's gun in your ear and/or yanked out of the car and bounced on the pavement or hood if he sees you armed, not knowing any better at the time.

Deanimator
November 9, 2008, 11:28 AM
Interesting question, but with all due respect I don't care what their preference is as long as I'm not required to disclose I won't
There's no question in Ohio. You HAVE to notify for an official encounter, IF YOU ARE CARRYING. Some officers apparently either don't know the law or try to push the envelope and hassle people for not notifying when they're NOT carrying (It's tied to your DL). I'm for obeying the law. I don't have to like having to notify when I'm carrying. I just have to do it. The cop doesn't have to like my NOT notifying when I'm NOT carrying. He just has to shut up and accept it. There are consequences when either of us decide to BREAK the law in this regard. I shouldn't expect any breaks from him if I don't notify when I'm armed (barring serious injury or the like). He shouldn't expect any breaks from me if he unlawfully hassles me for not doing something I don't have to do in the first place.

Deanimator
November 9, 2008, 01:04 PM
You're better off being up front with the cop and advising him early into the contact, even if you don't have to.
Uh, not so much:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=12577&forum_id=54&highlight=Fairfax

The Virginia Citizens Defense League reports three Fairfax County, VA police officers are involved in a false arrest of a North Carolina man.
**********************************************************

We haven't had any issues with the Fairfax County police in quite a while now. I have found them to be one of the best run police agencies in Virginia, stated Philip Van Cleave.

However, three officers tarnished that image last week when they unlawfully arrested a North Carolina resident who was legally carrying a handgun and had a North Carolina CHP.

Hold on tight - this is a weird story.

The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a charge which the gun owner disputes.

The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC CHP and was indeed armed.

The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more patrol units pulled up. The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.

While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!

The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was under arrested for:

1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in Virginia (!)
2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner was told was a FELONY (!)
3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since he was from North Carolina (!!)

His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.

The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that they had just made a false arrest.

The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

"No," replied on of the officers.

"Then they are legal."

Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North Carolina permit is valid."

The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.

The gun owner was ordered to be released.

After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get it back.

If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red light!

In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax Count for the false arrest!

I have already talked to my high-level contact with the Fairfax County PD about this entire situation and the gun owner has filed a formal complaint.

In the past, Fairfax County PD has been very good when such internal investigations are required. Now we will wait and see what happens.

What is clear is that Fairfax County PD needs to educate its officers on:

1. Possession of hollow point bullets
2. Reciprocity laws
3. Lawful carriage of firearms across state lines
4. Safe gun handling (a few years ago unsafe gun handling by an officer cause a gun to discharge, killing an unarmed, handcuffed man)





-------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
So, would you say that advising when not necessary worked out well for the person noted above?

Deanimator
November 9, 2008, 01:57 PM
Dean, your illustration is the very reason Treo and I don't believe in disclosing unless we have to.
Too much chance for pain,very little chance for gain.
I spent an hour or two looking for that citation, but I think it's so important that it was worth the effort. This is probably the third or fourth time I've quoted it in similar discussions. It certainly bears repeating.

Obeying the law and being polite (proper, NOT obsequious) are all you're required to do and all you SHOULD do. Doing anything else inculcates in the police an expectation that you HAVE to do other things. That's not good for you. In the long run, it's not even good for them.

Harley Quinn
November 9, 2008, 05:20 PM
So Sid do you think all what you mentioned is good for the normal average everyday citizen and their protection from untrained folks, running around carrying a gun...

I mean "like wow even" you need a lic to drive a car?

If there no holding (waiting) period for buying a handgun? Do they have the new and improved computer system? Or is it just a phone call away? And carring one on your hip all over town has to be a real pleasure...especially into banks, post offices and locations that tell you not to (their rights).

This is a list of all the various states and their rules;

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=waitxstate

I think I see a change coming on for some of these states, sorry to say.:confused:
Or is it just better for the citizen that gets hit with the firepower as the crime goes down ,and then who pays for their hospital bills etc.? The city and state they live in?

Yea I am a ccw in CA and a NRA member so just answer the questions.;)

Regards

jaholder1971
November 9, 2008, 05:41 PM
Deanimator,

Respectfully, if their reaction to a CHL was to pull a felony car stop what do you think their reaction would have been had he not ID'd at all and they found his carry piece? They'd have probably blasted the poor SOB all over the sidewalk.

Virginia gunowners have a full on legal/political battle with many of their city's LEOs and I can tell you this isn't happening everywhere.

Deanimator
November 9, 2008, 09:20 PM
Respectfully, if their reaction to a CHL was to pull a felony car stop what do you think their reaction would have been had he not ID'd at all and they found his carry piece?
The same, and equally unlawful.

I'm seeking an update on OCDO. Hopefully he's suing them as individuals as well as suing their agency.

I wonder if they know the sheriff who'll be confiscating their belongings for the auction after the judgement?

Treo
November 9, 2008, 09:58 PM
(most parts of) Arizona also grants the right to (open) carry that weapon with no licensing/training whatsoever.

Governments don't grant rights they acknowledge them.

what do you think their reaction would have been had he not ID'd at all and they found his carry piece?

Better than excellent chance they'd never have found it

dfunde01
November 9, 2008, 10:08 PM
"A resounding agreement to those who stated that rank-and-file troops in LE either don't care, or actually support, private carry. I did when I was in LE, and so did most, if not all, my colleagues.

When a post with this ambiguous a question on this matter pops up (this ain't the first by any means), I can only think that the poster is some unfortunate soul that lives in a LE-issue-controlled jurisdiction, and has just been turned down. Fortunately, for me at least, I live in Florida."

I apologize if my question was ambiguous. I live in GA, a shall issue state, and I have had my CCW permit for over 30 years. Several instances of harassment have been cited on this thread in Richmond County GA, Fairfax County VA, and in Northern CA. I have seen several others recently in Atlanta and am curious as to what, if anything, has changed in the LEO community to cause an apparent increase in the number of LEO's that appear to object to a citizen legally having a CCW. My personal experience has been that LEO's are supportive of CCW permits. At least the dozens I have met over the years have been.

Mr.1973
November 9, 2008, 10:19 PM
Need to know:

Which towns/cities/states have Pro-CCW/personal firearm protection, state legislature/city/county officials?

Question 2: How is your local job market, for say ummmm......a Computer Aided Design/Drafting Technician.

Get back to me, please.

Thanks.

BullfrogKen
November 9, 2008, 11:23 PM
what, if anything, has changed in the LEO community to cause an apparent increase in the number of LEO's that appear to object to a citizen legally having a CCW.

The internet.


I don't believe there are any more anti-gun, anti-carry officers in the ranks than there used to be.

The difference today is when an officer does an inappropriate stop, that interaction is spread all over the internet. 15 years ago we'd just go take care of it with his superiors. Or maybe someone might write a letter to the editor.

I'll tell a story you don't see often, but I have no doubt happens.

Earlier this year I was having a cup of coffee with a good friend who happens to also be a police officer working in Maryland. One morning he stopped a young fellow for speeding on his way to work. PA resident, wearing a 5-11 gun vest, and he was, "nervous as hell, fidgety, and was very obvious in making sure his vest didn't fly open," was the quote as I recall it.

My buddy knew right away he was carrying a gun. He'd ran the guy's license and it came back clean. He really didn't want to "jack this guy up on a gun charge, ruin his life, and take away his right to own a gun." So he figured, "well, I really didn't see it, so I had plausible deniability. I handed him his ticket, told him not to carry his handgun in Maryland again, and I walked back to my car."


I've heard the rants and stories a hundred times about anti-gun cops. But I've never come on the internet and saw a discussion that began, "So . . . a cop caught me illegally carrying my handgun today, but he gave me a pass."

But it happens more often than you realize.

KD5NRH
November 10, 2008, 04:26 AM
So far, every LE contact I've had in Texas, they don't even bother to ask where it is. Most of them compare the DL number on the CHL to the one on the DL, and hand the CHL back without any further comment. At least two didn't even glance at the CHL, just took the DL and called it in.

IMO, they figure if you were planning to do anything, you wouldn't tell them up front.

Deanimator
November 10, 2008, 08:07 AM
I've heard the rants and stories a hundred times about anti-gun cops. But I've never come on the internet and saw a discussion that began, "So . . . a cop caught me illegally carrying my handgun today, but he gave me a pass."
Carrying unlawfully is a choice, just like unlawfully hassling somebody for carrying lawfully. In neither case should the perpetrator expect to be let off.

Harley Quinn
November 10, 2008, 12:02 PM
Sid, Thanks for the reply, and I can see why you want to ccw or open carry, large amounts of cash have a tendency to draw criminals :uhoh:

Regards

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