Weapons on Military Bases


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buckshott
November 8, 2008, 10:56 AM
Hi Guys,
This might seem like a dumb question, bit I could use some guidance here. I am retired military and my wife is really in bad health. We get her meds at a military base which is about 150 miles from home. We go every 3 months and the savings is over $1000 per month. I have a CCW and almost always carry. I usually carry when I go to the Base and never have any problem. Just before arriving, I put it in the trunk.Id card and vehicle sticker up to date. My question is, can a weapon be checked at the Main Gate and picked up on the way out, or just shut up and keep doing what I'm doing?

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The Bushmaster
November 8, 2008, 11:05 AM
I am also retired military (US Navy). At most of the Naval bases I have been to. Yes they will store your weapon at security if they have facilities to do so. It would pay to ask [by phone].

22lr
November 8, 2008, 11:26 AM
What ever you do, ask before you show up at the gate, with a lot of bases using rent-a-cops you dont what them freaking out about you having a gun. It never hurts to find out before hand.

Bob R
November 8, 2008, 12:23 PM
Most facilities will allow you to drive to security to store your weapon while on the base.

When I lived in Montana, Malmstrom AFB only required you to unload and lock your weapon in a case while you were on base. If you were spending the night on base you had to take your gun to the armory.

Here in Spokane, at Fairchild AFB, if I decide to carry onto the base, I notify the gate guard and then I go straight to security to store my weapon while on base.

Each base is different, some to the point of not allowing guns at all. All you can do is call the security supervisor and ask what their procedures are.

bob

Treo
November 8, 2008, 12:24 PM
Have you considerd getting a lock box installed in your trunk? I can't speak for the Navy but every once in a while the Army gets a wild hair and decides to search every car coming on post. For those who say just decline entry onto the post implies consent

Battlespace
November 8, 2008, 12:55 PM
I work on a military installation (Army) and use the range there quite often. I am required to carry the gun in the trunk and the ammunition inside the passenger compartment. The guards usually just have me open the trunk and glance at the gun(s) to be certain they are unloaded. However, since i work there and go back and forth every day I also know 95% of the guards, both DOD police and the rent-a-cops.

When I go to work next week I will ask and post the reply.

Frog48
November 8, 2008, 06:25 PM
Can local LEO's carry on military bases, while off-duty?

I'd image that more than a few LEO's are in the Reserves or NG.

Treo
November 8, 2008, 07:34 PM
Can local LEO's carry on military bases, while off-duty?

When I was in the guard they said "No" but a few of our guys that were cops did anyway because their Dept. required it. They were discrete.

Mainsail
November 8, 2008, 08:37 PM
McChord AFB is using an X-ray van to scan 'randomly' selected cars on the way in. If you refuse to allow your car, and you since you're driving, to be x-rayed, then you are denied access for one year.

Food for thought.

ilbob
November 8, 2008, 08:51 PM
Hi Guys,
This might seem like a dumb question, bit I could use some guidance here. I am retired military and my wife is really in bad health. We get her meds at a military base which is about 150 miles from home. We go every 3 months and the savings is over $1000 per month. I have a CCW and almost always carry. I usually carry when I go to the Base and never have any problem. Just before arriving, I put it in the trunk.Id card and vehicle sticker up to date. My question is, can a weapon be checked at the Main Gate and picked up on the way out, or just shut up and keep doing what I'm doing?
My dad gets his meds through the VA mail order program he only has to actually go there once a year.

deadin
November 8, 2008, 08:53 PM
Each base is different,

Bob R hit it exactly. I have traveled all over the US, staying on bases in my RV and every one is different. I have found that "generally" the Air Force is the most friendly, then the Army, then Marines and then the Navy being the strictest. There are exceptions to every rule, like March Field (AF Reserve Base) where I had to be escorted by security to take my CO2 pellet gun to the armory.

DMF
November 9, 2008, 12:55 PM
Can local LEO's carry on military bases, while off-duty?Depends on variety of factors, but primarily on whether the officer is carrying in area of concurrent jurisdiction v. exclusive federal jurisdiction. Anyone who gives a blanket yes or no on that question is giving you bad information.

Steve in PA
November 9, 2008, 01:47 PM
For all intents and purposes, no an off-duty LEO will not be allowed to carry on a military base.

Before anyone says anything, I am a LEO and I am also prior military, USMC and NG.

As I said, under very limited circumstances will a LEO, whether on or off-duty be allowed to carry on base.

On duty, if you are following up on an investigation or something of that matter, then yes.....after checking in with the appropriate authorities and being escorted by a member of the base, you will be carrying.

Off-duty, officially the answer again would be no. Of couse if you are not checked at the gate, then who is going to know?

Of course, unless you are military you are not going to get on the base anyway.

The Bushmaster
November 9, 2008, 02:36 PM
Anyone ever hunt on Vandenberg Airforce Base in California? I have. When you go through the gate, the guards see your rifle and only ask if it is loaded. Then tell you to proceed. I've hunted all over that base with a loaded rifle. I've even been seen leaning against the fence that surrounds minuteman and and other defence missles glassing the area for deer and pigs. No big deal there...Even go to the the PX to buy ammunition with the rifle in the vehicle...

They even have camping areas on base for the hunters. Both RV and tent areas...

DMF
November 9, 2008, 02:39 PM
Sorry, but I too was active duty, then a reservist, and am currently an LEO, and disagree. Areas of concurrent jurisdiction are not exclusively controlled by the federal government, and the military cannot arbitrarily keep state and local LE out of those areas. In fact state and local have the authority to enter and enforce state and local law in those areas, often unescorted, and do not require permission to do so. So in areas of concurrent jurisdiction the issue of "off duty" carry can be quite complicated, and certainly is not as simple as saying the military can keep someone out of that area. Some agencies have policies that specifically address "off duty" carry, and in areas of concurrent jurisdiction those policies might authorize the officer to be armed in areas of concurrent jurisdiction when "off duty."

deadin
November 9, 2008, 02:55 PM
DMF,
You might give a definition and examples of the differences between "concurrent jurisdiction" and an actual "military base."

The Bushmaster
November 9, 2008, 05:02 PM
DMF...I served on a lot of U.S. Navy bases in my 22+ years and cilivian LEOs could NOT come on base and arrest someone without probable cause and an escort. Police officers did not have free access to Navy Bases...

DMF
November 9, 2008, 08:01 PM
Well, I worked LE on military bases for several years. In areas of concurrent jurisdiction the local and state LE do NOT need permission to come onto the base and enforce state and local law. Of course they need PC to arrest someone, that's no different on or off base for any LE jurisdiction.

As for a definition of concurrent jurisdiction"

"JURISDICTION
Jurisdiction limits the exercise of authority. The jurisdiction of every offense or incident depends upon the status of the suspect, international agreements and treaties, the "service connection" of the offense, and other factors. The SJA is always consulted where questions exist about jurisdiction.

The term "exclusive jurisdiction" refers to the power granted to Congress by the United States Constitution to exercise legislative authority. It also applies to similar power acquired by the US through cession by a state, or by a reservation made by the US upon the admission of the state into the Union. In the exercise of exclusive jurisdiction, the federal government assumes sole jurisdiction over the designated area. For example, many military installations have exclusive federal jurisdiction. The federal government then exercises its executive, legislative, and judicial authority over that area and the personnel within it. To avoid the difficult task of enacting and maintaining a code of criminal laws appropriate for all areas under its legislative jurisdiction, Congress passed 18 USC 13, commonly referred to as the Assimilative Crimes Act. In this statute, Congress provided that all acts or omissions occurring in an area under federal jurisdiction, which would constitute crimes if the area were under the state jurisdiction, will constitute similar crimes, similarly punishable, under federal law. This act does not assimilate crimes based on state statutes that are contrary to federal policy and law, such as civil rights legislation, nor does it assimilate state law if there is an existing federal statute or law on the subject.

Concurrent jurisdiction exists when the US is granted authority that would otherwise amount to exclusive legislative jurisdiction over an area, but the state in which the area is located retains the right to simultaneously exercise its authority along with that of the federal government. It is an area of dual jurisdiction. Under concurrent jurisdiction, state criminal laws are applicable in the area and can be enforced by the state. The same laws can be enforced by the federal government under the Assimilative Crimes Act, which is applicable to areas under concurrent as well as exclusive jurisdiction of the US. Federal criminal laws also apply. Many crimes fall under both federal and state sanction, and either the federal or state government, or both, may take jurisdiction over a given offense."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/19-10/Ch5.htm

But hey maybe I'm wrong, AND so is the US Army in it's own field manual. Because we all know the Army is so likely to willing cede authority to anyone else on their bases. ;)

Now, as a practical matter most bases draft agreements with local and state LE agencies likely to be enforcing state law on military bases in areas of concurrent jurisdiction on the procedures to be followed when operating on military bases. However, those agreements would not enable a base to stop state and local LE from operating in areas of concurrent jurisdiction on base. If the base chooses not to follow the agreement, the state and local LE has every right to enforce state law on the base in areas of concurrent jurisdiction.

Examples abound, as areas of exclusive federal jurisdiction were the minority of property on military bases, although after 9/11/01 the federal government has moved to get more areas on military bases designated as areas of exclusive federal jurisdiction. This has created the problem of burdening the federal district courts in those areas of dealing with more cases of crimes where civilians are suspects and which must be prosecuted in federal court, because in areas of exclusive federal jurisdiction the state cannot prosecute.

johnsonrlp
November 9, 2008, 11:00 PM
Your best bet would be to call the Provost Marshall's office and ask for a rundown on post weapons policy. Every post is different.

NavyLCDR
November 10, 2008, 04:52 AM
DMF...I served on a lot of U.S. Navy bases in my 22+ years and cilivian LEOs could NOT come on base and arrest someone without probable cause and an escort. Police officers did not have free access to Navy Bases...

I hate to get into pissing contests, but I have to state the Bushmaster is correct on this one. If the US military wants to close the gates to US installations, and even civilian facilities occupied by US military, for any reason, usually due to an escalation in the Force Protection Condition (FPCON), civilian law enforcement can sit outside the gates all they want to, but they are not getting in.

I have very personal knowledge of this policy as I was the Officer in Charge of such a task force, and deadly force, during periods of escalated FPCON was authorized to keep ANYONE out, law enforcement or not. National Security issues take precedence over enforcement of state and/or local laws.

HorseSoldier
November 10, 2008, 05:24 AM
My question is, can a weapon be checked at the Main Gate and picked up on the way out, or just shut up and keep doing what I'm doing?

+1 on calling ahead. The one time I saw something pretty much like this play out (retiree coming onto post, random MP search, he declared he had a handgun in the car) the only thing that happened to him was they did not allow him access to post (and kept a bunch of other people like me waiting in line behind him while they sorted it out) -- but that would not be a good outcome if you're commuting 150 miles to pick up needed prescriptions. (And I'd note that I have no idea if the MPs involved in the scene I witnessed were enforcing a DoD policy, Army policy, local post policy, or just something they made up on the fly to avoid having to do paperwork . . .).

DMF
November 10, 2008, 05:34 AM
Piss all you want, I don't care. I've worked LE on military bases, and dealt with issues related to exclusive federal v. concurrent jurisdiction repeatedly. Areas of concurrent jurisdiction are areas where the state and local LE agencies have the right to enter and enforce state law. This is a long established matter of law. The federal government has absolute control over areas of exclusive federal jurisdiction, but not over areas of concurrent jurisdiction. Again, as I've said the federal government has moved to get more areas on military bases designated areas of exclusive federal jurisdiction since 9/11/01, but this does not change the fact that there are areas of concurrent jurisdiction on military bases, and that the military commanders cannot prohibit the state authorities from enforcing state law in those areas.

The irony of this debate is that I have in the past been wrongly characterized as advocating any position that would support the power of the federal government over state and local authority, however I am now here pointing out a situation where the state and local government have equal footing with the federal government with respect to access to areas of concurrent jurisdiction.

jaholder1971
November 10, 2008, 02:11 PM
I dunno what the policy is now, but years ago McConnell AFB simply passed any LEO car with a wave that came up to the gates.

On or Off-Duty LEO's were welcome. I was a Civil Air Patrol cadet and was on base a lot. A number of Senior members in the area were LEO's and carried on base without issues while off duty.

Then again, about that time there was a big stink over USAF SP's moonlighting as parttime cops for Wichita PD.

The Bushmaster
November 10, 2008, 02:39 PM
NavyLt...I'm a plank owner of the Submarine Base Bangor, Washington. I was there protection the USS Ohio when she came in for the first time. The Bangor Base was split into three parts. The Main Base, Core Area and the Sub Base itself. Believe you me. If you didn't have the right ID you could find yourself shot if attempting to enter the lower area where the Boomers were. And they didn't care who you thought you were...I was incharge of the Oil Spill Team at Marginal Wharf from 1980 to 1983.

mljdeckard
November 10, 2008, 03:10 PM
I was telling my commander this weekend, it's ironic that the only time I don't carry a gun is when I'm on a military post. In the guard, if I were just going to the armory for something, they don't care. But since my unit is currently deployed, we are drilling at the state HQ, which is a secured facility, with gates, rent-a-cops, door locks, etc. If I'm dropping by there, I park in visitor parking out front, and leave it in the car. But when I drill, I have to park inside the gate. If I'm going to the nearby training post, or Hill Air Force Base, I can't have it in my car at all. I asked about gate storage, and they said they couldn't because of liability issues. All vehicles are subject to search.

So, the short version is, if I ever think I might be going on post, I have to leave it home. It's not changing anytime soon. Hill Air Force Base is the largest employer in Utah, and all persons coming and going must do so defenseless.

DMF
November 10, 2008, 06:01 PM
The Bangor Base was split into three parts. The Main Base, Core Area and the Sub Base itself. Believe you me. If you didn't have the right ID you could find yourself shot if attempting to enter the lower area where the Boomers were.Well that proves what? Was the area where the "boomers" were exclusive federal jurisdiction or concurrent jurisdiction? Do you even know?

Certain types of assests are never stored in areas of concurrent jurisdiction, and I'm willing to bet those "boomers" are among those assests.

None of which changes the fact that state and local LE have authority to operate in and enforce state law in areas of concurrent jurisdiction.

ATAShooter
November 10, 2008, 06:08 PM
At Ft. Lee Virginia, you can get on base with a shotgun, so long as you are going to the Skeet - Trap range. If you have a handgun, they make you leave.

Tacbandit
November 11, 2008, 02:53 AM
Quote by johnsonrlp:
"Your best bet would be to call the Provost Marshall's office and ask for a rundown on post weapons policy. Every post is different."


Getting back to the OP's original question....
+1,johnsonrlp...Every post/base is different. What everyone used to do, or maybe could have done at some point in time is worthless in your situation, buckshott. And your question isn't dumb...Not asking it would be...So I would highly suggest that you call the provost marshall, and ask them what THEIR policy is...I wouldn't leave it to chance...the consequences could be grim...
Good luck, hope it works out for you...Let us know what they say...:)

deadin
November 11, 2008, 11:57 AM
the consequences could be grim...

No kidding! I seem to remember the sign on the gate a Whidbey Naval Air Station says "... firearms will be confiscated and destroyed....."

Battlespace
November 12, 2008, 08:53 AM
Is probably the best advice.

I asked the guard at the gate on the way in to work this morning. What I said in an earlier post is the only way to get a weapon on post. Seperate the ammuntiion from the firearm and then tell the guard you have a weapon and are going to the sportsman range for target practice. Failure to do this and you get in deep doo doo (better have a good attorney on retainer).

alsaqr
November 12, 2008, 09:07 AM
I am a retired Army guy who shoots and hunts on Ft. Sill, OK. In order to legally bring any type of gun on Ft. Sill it must be registered with the post vehicle registration branch: No exceptions, Recently there have been some problems when hunters tried to bring unregistered guns on base to hunt and shoot.

Picknlittle
December 5, 2008, 12:08 PM
According to the Military Police on Ft. Campbell Ky, LEO's can only carry when participating in an active investigation on post. Some other bases have a secure check in for weapons, but each is different. I usually stop at my gun shop as I go to Ft. Campbell and leave mine there. It's close, convenient and they are happy to provide the service.

KenW.
December 5, 2008, 02:39 PM
I'm a retiree too, and currently an LEO.
While you might get away with carrying on a base, the base clinic or hospital will $*&t a brick if you're caught carrying in them.

Legacy 6
December 5, 2008, 03:24 PM
Here on Fort Riley, if you bring a weapon onto Post you have to have it registered through the provost Marshal. The policy says that you can put it in your trunk, and the policy is not intended to prevent you from stopping at the PX, hospital or wherever to run an errand.

Whatever you do, I think MOST posts around the CONUS, you cannot carry on Post. I didn't know this either, as I've found out the hard way...

As a young LT, my other LT buddies and I always brought our guns on Post to go to the shooting range after work. It was our understanding that if you lived off Post, you didn't have to register your weapons... this was not the case, but no one ever said anything or looked at us cross ways so as far as I knew, we were good.

Here's my 2 cents: Go on post with the gun in your trunk, and the ammo in the cab. Go to the Provost Marshal building with the seriel # only, and register your weapon. This will probably save you from any potential trouble in the future. Then just go about your business as usual. If they stop you to search your vehicle, you've got nothing to worry about.

Richard

d2wing
December 6, 2008, 04:51 PM
I am a disabled vet and also have stayed at military bases, usually in a rv park, in many bases in the midwest and southwest. Most prohibit firearms and have a sign saying so at the gate.
I have a military id and a vehicle pass. I am usually waived through but always have to show my id. I have never been checked for anything except once when I misplaced my id. And once when I forgot a safety vest riding motorcycle. I doubt you'd be searched but I don't like to push my luck, and I would not do anything to violate military authority, ;),;).

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