Which Intermediate Autoloader in Theory Has a Longer Service Life?


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Texasred
November 8, 2008, 01:49 PM
Which of the given Intermediate autoloading rifles, given spare parts and replacing BBLs, would theoretically last the longest?
When I say theoreutically, I mean how the impact of firing is transmitted to the frame/receiver, parts materials, designs, and durability?

Please no unnecessary criticisms, and I'm not considering ammuntion costs, so don't go shoot back that it would take millions of dollars of ammo to wear so and so out.

As for my choice, it seems the AR-15, or the M1 Carbine in second. What do the more experienced think?

(I know the contreversey surrounding the poor little .30 carbine, but lets give it some attention this time, being such a weak cartridge I can't imagine it hurting a good old fashioned forged receiver)

1. AR-15/M-4
2. Mini 14
3. AK-47 type Milled 7.62x39
4. AK-47 Stamped 1mm
5. Ak-47 Stamped 1.6mm
6. M1 Carbine
7. SIG 556
8. SKS (which kind?)
9. FS 2000
10. Steyr AUG
11. Robinson XCR
12. Armalite 180/ AR-18
13. Heckler and Koch 33 (.223)
14. AK-74 type 5.45x39mm
15. Kel-Tec SU-16
16. Other (please specify)

Disclaimer:
I never said "Assault Rifle", I never said Full Auto, and I mean civilian rifles.
Scenario:
Imagine infinite parts and ammunition and your own personal gunsmith, which lived in a bunker underground and zombies overtook the earth and everyones riding unicorns and you have to select a stock pile of rifles. What would you get and why?

Don't take me so seriously.

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Deer Hunter
November 8, 2008, 01:51 PM
All of them will outlive you. So it's a moot point.

Rubber_Duck
November 8, 2008, 01:51 PM
I would say AK. Many of the ones being used around the world in the various conflicts are decades old, and recieved little/poor maintenence.

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 01:58 PM
Deer hunter can we just pretend please?

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 02:00 PM
thank you rubber duck

pbearperry
November 8, 2008, 02:25 PM
I have been an active shooter for 43 years.Some of my guns are 30-40 years old and I have never had a gun fall apart by use.maybe if we stopped trying to make magnums out of everything we own they would outlast us?

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 02:29 PM
I agree with you on the super ultra mega magnum craze!

Eightball
November 8, 2008, 02:32 PM
As much as I would love to vote for the M1 Carbine.......with the bolt and oprod/handle rubbing against the receiver constantly, I gave the nod to the AR15, since so much less of the actual "receiver" is impinged upon by the moving parts.

The one thing that makes think that the M1 Carbine could last longer is dependent upon the wear patterns of all those pins running through the lower receiver.

RP88
November 8, 2008, 02:48 PM
AKM/AK47

alot of them around the world in use have never been properly or thoroughly cleaned and still have a 1950s time stamps on them, and are still going strong. If a full-auto military use one can live that long, then a civvie one will last much, much longer

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 8, 2008, 02:52 PM
Have no idea, so won't vote, but I'd bet the SKS is in the top 3, if not first - they are built like a tank.

elmerfudd
November 8, 2008, 03:10 PM
One thing I can say with certainty. It's not the AR. Anyone who has fired old, well worn M16 series weapons in basic training or other military training has probably come across these jammomatic armory weapons before.

When I was in basic and AIT a couple decades ago, we had M16A1's, (I actually even had an XM15E5 for awhile and it was the best of the bunch), and they were total pigs. They were kept practically immaculate and were typically checked out of the armory in the morning, marched out to the range, fired, marched back to the armory, cleaned and then thoroughly inspected before we were allowed to turn them back in.

Now, these rifles probably weren't a fair representation of the AR series. They had been used hard by recruits for many years and had been cleaned overly aggressively by those same recruits, but the facts are that they weren't holding up well and I have heard similar stories about M16's in training facilities from many sources.


Those old M16A1's have left a bad taste in my mouth ever since and even after firing newer M16A2's and AR15's that didn't seem to suffer from the same problems, I've never quite gotten over my aversion to the design. If I can scrounge together $1400 however, I might see if a RRA LAR8 can cure me of it.

briansmithwins
November 8, 2008, 03:16 PM
PRK with the 1.6mm stamped receiver.

They were designed as squad support weapons and are basically a ruggedized (talk about overkill) AK: heavier receiver, heavy barrel, oversize front and rear trunnions, even the dustcover is heavier than a standard AK.

BSW

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 03:32 PM
This had been a topic to me after going to a local machine gun rental range here in pasadena tx.

There is an old M16 that has blasted through 30rd mags since the 80s, I shot it a couple times with wolf ammo (YES WOLF EVIL AMMO) and the finish is worn in all places. The gun is just raw aluminum and the gun isn't even a Real Colt. It's some name I can't remember. But obviously a gun with questionable quality and ridiculous abuse has held up fairly well. But the real kicker is the other guns they rent and how they have held up.

1. Uzi- Few problems, they say the receiver is thicker than an AKs and doesn't give them a whole lot of trouble.

2. Thompson- They're favorite, I shot this thing, and I must admit this thing is more solid and tighter than a granite tombstone. Very few problems. Gets rented the most according to the clerk.

3. Grease Gun- This actually is the most trouble free! I expected this thing based on the original design intentions to fall apart after 20 years.

4. HK MP5- The worst! The owner claims that the receiver at it's pinholes is wearing thin and the whole gun is on it's last leg. This gun is regularly out of commision.

5. M-16- Not a Colt, replacing bolts and other parts but the receivers wholes looked the same guage as normal for an M-16 of that era. Plus it gets rented alot.

6. M2 Carbine- Nothing too serious problems wise, but doesn't get rented a whole lot.(hasn't been in enough movies for the ignorant out there I guess)

All in all the shop owners had the ol "don't make'em like they used to" attitude about the MP-5.

Really suprised the heck out of me! NO COMPROMISES HUH?

RP88
November 8, 2008, 03:37 PM
I find it funnyt that the MP5 would be worn without even being more used than the Thompson, because the damn thing weighs alot for what kind of gun it is.

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 03:40 PM
Have you picked up a Thompson before? That thing is like 16, 20 elbows!

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 03:42 PM
But I mean that the Gas systems should relieve some of the stress. Like the AR receiver just kind of floats there.

priler
November 8, 2008, 04:55 PM
this poll is worthless because you specifically said infinite parts and a gunsmith and also people will just vote for there favorite and it is apparent that there are alot of AR lovers on this forum,which is fine by me..that basically means all of these will last forever.however,i will play your game and so i vote AK but it makes no different if it's milled or not but i went milled to accumulate the points as others had already voted that way.

Texasred
November 8, 2008, 10:41 PM
Ok well I mean which receiver will crack first.

Gun Slinger
November 8, 2008, 11:16 PM
Voted for the milled AK-47.

I am certain that there are hundreds, if not thousands of milled AK-47s throughout Africa and across Asia that are at least fifty years of age, that have never seen a moment's care except perhaps to brush off some errant splotch of mud or crud that have fired magazine after magazine of corrosive ammo. Despite remaining propped against a hut wall or a large farm implement, unused, even these will function after kicking their bolts open after being rusted shut due to neglect.

Texasred
November 9, 2008, 11:11 AM
I know once again that the rifles on here will last longer than me in most cases if I lived to be 200 years old. :rolleyes:

But this has been a concern of mine seeing as if they were to make a BAN and registration like they have done in CALIFORNIA, then all those people over there are left with the guns they have legal rights too. Correct?

Now these gun for all intensive purposes (if they never lift the ban) will literally end up shot to the point of complete failure. Right? They can still smith their guns and order parts for them.

The guns legal status makes them worth the constant repair and may as well stretch these guns as thin as possible. I imagine in 30 or 40 years from now we may hear about some receiver failures. In this case, the state won't let the citizen buy a replacement lower for their AR or replacement flat for their AK right?

This is why they even have Magazine overhaul kits for sale. Where as us over in the free states take for granted that we can buy 10 or so of our favorites for less than 150$. To our free minds it is never a concern if an insignificant $10 magazine's springs wear out, we just toss it right? Boy are we spoiled compared to our fellow Americans over in the commie states!

It seems that this question has a real purpose given the circumstances. Or am I just being ridiculous now?

jaholder1971
November 9, 2008, 11:26 AM
To be honest, if receiver cracking was the issue, I can't vote for any of them. Provided standard pressure ammo is run through all of them not one has an advantage over the other.

The Achilles heel for any rifle is breakage of moving parts.

Texasred
November 9, 2008, 11:27 AM
Wells then, I guess we can all rest easy!

GRIZ22
November 9, 2008, 01:57 PM
I picked Mini 14 based on personal experience. The agency I worked for had Mini 14s issued for several years. These weren't issued to individual officers but were pool long guns. We had several kept at the range for qualification. Everyone (about 300 agents) qualified on these 4 times a year. These qualification guns didn't get a lot of maintenance. As long as they functioned and hit the target that was okay. A good shooter would have about a 6-8" group at 100 after firing the course most of which was done standing or kneeling. After several years some of the guns showed rounds keyholing on the target although they still functioned fine otherwise. We called Ruger and they asked how many rounds were through these guns. We fiqured based on the number of shooters and rounds fired per qual each of these Mini 14s had fired about 100,000 rounds. We sent them to Ruger and they totally rebuilt them for free. Changed to AUGs so these rebuilt Rugers never got to go another 100,000 rounds.

Bartkowski
November 9, 2008, 02:21 PM
even these will function after kicking their bolts open after being rusted shut due to neglect.

Why does this get posted. Has anyone seen an AK rusted shut? Has anyone seen one that had to be beat or kicked open?

rangerruck
November 9, 2008, 02:34 PM
there are many armalite ar 180 types, still in service, from the viet nam era...

db_tanker
November 9, 2008, 02:42 PM
1mm stamped AK


I don't have one in that caliber however (own a CUR2 5.45)

But I would still depend on either one to function in any situation.


I voted for it as I felt that it would be, IMO, the perfect post-apocalyptic rifle...with a Kobra scope you can subsistence hunt with it or do a decent job of DM with it. I think you could even do a good job of taking out a unicorn. :D

Of course I will be chided for this choice but hey...its the spice that makes life grand. :)

johnsonrlp
November 9, 2008, 04:46 PM
This thread needs more CZ love.

jeff-10
November 9, 2008, 04:53 PM
The AKs and M-1 carbines have proven already they will last 40+ years. I have a feeling a Mini-14 will last a long time also.

Texasred
November 9, 2008, 05:25 PM
Well I guess we all know now which guns to register later and which ones to "sell" huh!?

R127
November 9, 2008, 09:20 PM
Appropriately heat treated forged and machined steel beats aluminum, plastic or sheet steel in ultimate durability. Except for polymer any of those materials should be able to outlast their original owner.

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