Speer Gold Dot Ripoff


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JGrelle
November 9, 2008, 12:40 PM
I am not sure when it happened but has any noticed that Speer stoped selling the 230 gr .451 Gold Dot in 100 qty boxes & not have them in 50 ct boxes for very nearly the same price. Smells like a scam to me. I have seen this alot before & companies will try stunts like this & if enough of us make some noise with them hopefully we can get them to listen & correct their error. It just bull on their part & makes me mad as h@##. Then will try to claim it is customer demand, lol.

Rant over

If this issue concerns you then please contact Speer & let them know.

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rcmodel
November 9, 2008, 01:11 PM
It's amazing how a plated bullet has gone from the cheapest manufacturing method, to right next to the Barnes solid copper bullets price-wise, in just a few short years!

They should be selling them competitively with Berry & Ranier in 250 bullet boxes!

BTW: I'm still PO'd at Speer for quietly discontinuing the most excellent (and inexpensive) Half-Jacket .357 & .44 HP bullets without telling anyone they were going to do it.

rcmodel

JGrelle
November 9, 2008, 01:15 PM
Nosler did the same thing years back & now their 50 packs cost the same as most other brands 100 ct boxes.

Explorer1
November 9, 2008, 01:23 PM
Face it folks, costs have gone up. The average weekender will not pay the new costs, so by splitting the qty the cost appears the same to the unaware. Its simply marketing, buying habits, and the facts of a global economy.
Given all the environmental crap, its really amazing these companies have not been forced to close their doors and few could move overseas.
We have allowed our hired representatives to do this to us, its time we reign on them not the suppliers!

depoloni
November 9, 2008, 04:02 PM
Holy... Gold Dots are plated? I thought they were a (bonded) cup-and-core jacketed bullet.

I'm an XTP guy, when I'm loading to mean business. Also like Rem/Win/Magtech bullets as far as jackets go. 90% of my pistol shooting is Rainier or cast bullets though, only use jackets for animal-intended bullets and even then I frequently use cast in the 44mag.

Guess my point is to highlight my own ignorance more than anything, but Gold Dots are plated?

HankB
November 9, 2008, 04:43 PM
Speer also discontinued their African Grand Slam rifle bullets - I've used their 300 grain tungsten-core .375 solids in Africa, and found them to be exceptional.

Now they're selling a version of the late Jack Carter's Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solids . . . good, but with a lead rather than tungsten core, they're not the bullet the original AGS was.

MMCSRET
November 9, 2008, 05:32 PM
rcmodel: I'm with you on the half jacket bullets. I do have a supply on the bottom shelf that I will use sparingly.

Walkalong
November 9, 2008, 06:06 PM
It's amazing how a plated bullet has gone from the cheapest manufacturing method, to right next to the Barnes solid copper bullets price-wise, in just a few short years!
Stinks doesn't it. It's too bad everyone discovered plated bullets. If they hadn't I would still be buying them for a bit more than lead, like I used to do.

ants
November 9, 2008, 06:12 PM
You may have paid for the 100-count box but walked out with the 50-count box.

Speer currently makes both size boxes, 50 and 100. At MidwayUSA the $28box of 100 is only $3 more than it was in 2006 (I just looked up the current catalog and the 2006 catalog). The box of 50 is currently $15.99.

rcmodel
November 9, 2008, 06:36 PM
Holy... Gold Dots are plated? I thought they were a (bonded) cup-and-core jacketed bullet.Speer says they are bonded, "one molecule at a time".
That means plated in plain everyday English.

The name Gold-Dot came about because a bullet shaped lead core is electroplated with copper, then the HP cavity is swaged into them.

That leaves a "gold dot" of plating at the bottom of the HP cavity when they expand.

depoloni
November 9, 2008, 06:57 PM
Huh... I (obviously) never knew that about Gold Dots.

And here the Rainier HPs are made the same way, and have a "copper dot" in the bottom of the hollow point too - yet they're not sold as a "premium bonded" HP pistol bullet, they're sold as "do not use with expectation of typical hollow point expansion".

Rainier says their HPs are designed with the intent that some pistols feed/shoot/etc the shape better than a RN but to expect them to fail to mushroom.

Wonder what Speer does different with their Gold Dot that it IS designed to work properly. Not questioning, just curious mind you.

plinky
November 9, 2008, 07:00 PM
Yeah, they are plated then formed in multiple steps. A little more to them than a budget plinking bullet. They are also known as a very effective stopping bullet. Try that with Berry's. :p

Still, sounds like you paid a jacked up price.

rcmodel
November 9, 2008, 07:10 PM
Speer's GD cavity is hexagon? octagnal? and scalloped, which promotes reliable expansion.

There may even be some variation in plating thickness going on front to rear.

Berry just punches a round hole in the SOB and plates it!

No doubt the Gold-Dot is a vastly more refined and better SD bullet, and should cost more.
Just not that much more!

depoloni
November 9, 2008, 08:18 PM
Not sure how Speer would plate different thicknesses, unless they have some way of partially submerging the cast cores during the plating process. That being said, I'm not arguing that the Gold Dots are designed to, and apparently do, perform better in a SD role.

Never shot Berry's, so not sure how they're plated.

Rainier HPs are nose-punched AFTER plating, so the lead is indeed exposed from the punching process like a gold dot. They're hexagonally punched too, so there are indeed weaker "seams" around the HP perimiter.

I'd guess, literally, that the Gold Dots are skived more deeply and/or the jackets are skived to better control/ensure expansion. Probably also a safe guess that the Speer jackets are a hell of a lot thicker than the .003" or so that Rainier plating gives.

I'd never load a Rainier in a SD round, matter of fact I'd only use factory in SD. That being said, I'm now curious enough to put a few Rainier 9mm HPs through a stack of wet news next chance I get and see whether those bullets expand at all. I'd guess the big problem with them would be "controlled" performance - the plating would do little to hold that bullet together for a proper "mushroom" unlike the thicker, presumably, gold dot jackets.

Thanks for filling me in though - learn something new every day.

evan price
November 10, 2008, 05:58 AM
I load Rainier plated HP 124 9mm's for self defense practice over a load of +p approximation to simulate Gold Dots. They do expand, not as thoroughly as Gold Dots.

rhinoh
November 11, 2008, 07:51 PM
Yeah I just posted in another thread how I got ripped at Sportsman's Warehouse on a box of 45 Speer Gold Dot 230 grain bullets....thought it was a box of 100, but found out later it was a box of 50, FOR THE SAME PRICE, and NO RETURNS ON AMMO:fire:

Larry E
November 11, 2008, 08:03 PM
For some reason all Speer bullets have gone up in price in the past few years. They're conventional cup and core bullets are as expensive or more expensive than anyone else's conventional bullets, and the Gold Dots are WAY more expensive. I'd like to try some of their .224 62 gr FMJBT's, but they're more than Sierra's match bullets by quite a bit. If they price 'em high enough they pretty soon won't be selling too many. :confused:

BattleChimp Potemkin
November 12, 2008, 10:53 AM
We have done impromtu testing of Ranier and Berrys. Raniers, in .38 and .45, would NOT expand, unless driven to stripping velocity, then accuracy sucked, even then, expansion was hit and miss. Now, the Berrys are a riot: They expand. I have had the 125gr .357 and the 200gr .451 expand WITH denim in newsprint. I know its not a scientific test, however, the massive amount of each I have loaded up, I do not feel undergunned if I ran out of proper defense loads.

Incidentally: The 125gr HP and 158gr HP from Berrys gives me some ideas: Can anyone say new age Nyclads? Metro loads that dont lead?

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