LOL, Obama pulls anti gun page from website


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No Fear
November 9, 2008, 05:06 PM
Today, Tom Gresham (http://www.guntalk.com) went ballistic and full bore. In the process, he mentioned obama's "urban policy" page on change.gov. Oh, about an hour into his show, the page was taken down. http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7144/lollj3.gif You don't think we can make a difference? HA!

Here's a cached version of the page :neener:: http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:lZ5nLB1m2TMJ:www.change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/+gun+site:change.gov&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

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JWarren
November 9, 2008, 05:10 PM
Could this POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with the huge amount of media coverage that has been put out about gun purchases?

If I were an elected official, this would be a wake-up call about what kind of opposition he will face.

1994 mid-term elections, anyone? :) THEY REMEMBER.


-- John

No Fear
November 9, 2008, 05:18 PM
Could this POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with the huge amount of media coverage that has been put out about gun purchases?Most definitely. The timing was funny tho. Tom thought so too ;)

ClonaKilty
November 9, 2008, 05:20 PM
I hope this was a result of Tom's show and not just a planned change or outage.

And if it is a result of hits due to Tom's show, to me it shows that we have them scared. Time to press our advantage, before he even takes office.

hso
November 9, 2008, 06:17 PM
Coincidence and causality are two very different concepts.

The Uban Policy page from the Campaign website was dropped whole cloth onto the change.gov website and within hours it's presence was all over the internet (just like it was on the campaign page) as proof of the contradiction that the president-elect supports the 2A, but somehow also supports a permanent AWB.

If you're looking for a cause you should look at all the newspaper and TV coverage of the current panic buying of the very weapons both sites said the candidate/pres-elect supported being permanently banned. It looks really stupid to have a large number of Americans, those that voted against AND for the president-elect, out there purchasing these guns if they want anyone to believe that the president-elect supports the 2A while supporting a permanent AWB of the weapons tens of thousands of people have started buying the day after the election.

So what do they do, pull the evidence of the contradiction to stay close to the current behavior of the American people.

Let's see if we can't keep them "agreeing" with us.

22-rimfire
November 9, 2008, 06:57 PM
I don't think there is much chance that Obama/Biden will care one squat abut the current surge in firearms purchases. To them and Pelosi, McCarthy, Shumer, Kennedy, and others it just means they have not acted quickly enough. Voters who wanted to know, knew Obama's stand on guns and gun control prior to voting. We'll all mostly be paying higher taxes and his voters will be waiting for their next poverty check.

rbernie
November 9, 2008, 07:10 PM
to me it shows that we have them scared.I don't think that they're *scared* so much as clever. They want to keep devisive issues out of the limelight until the timing suits them better.

All the more reason to shine a light on their past statements and actions; light is fine disinfectant.

armedandsafe
November 9, 2008, 07:24 PM
As of this moment, the Urban Feely...errr...Policy page is missing from his site.

Pops

MT GUNNY
November 9, 2008, 07:40 PM
I urge all to copy the OP Link send it to yourself and email this out to your friends with the explanation that it has been removed. This should be known to all.

green country shooter
November 9, 2008, 07:50 PM
The whole agenda is gone now, not just the urban policy part.

enc0re
November 9, 2008, 07:56 PM
Presidential Candidates must have a stated position on almost everything. That's why he had such a comprehensive agenda on his website before. As he makes the transition to President Elect, he has to prioritize. Otherwise he'd end up like Carter. I expect to see a revised and sharply narrowed agenda.

This is nothing, guys. Just business as usual.

Zane
November 9, 2008, 08:26 PM
The whole "agenda" was removed from his website. There were a few guffaws on other pages, such as requiring students to perform community service. A few of the pages seemed more like fundraising and campaign literature than an actual agenda. One page even compares Obama's tax plan to McCain's.

I suspect that this wasn't really ready for prime time.

You can pull 24 of the 25 pages out of Google cache. Everything except the "ethics" page, seems to have been captured.

Animal Mother
November 9, 2008, 08:30 PM
I expect to see a revised and sharply narrowed agenda.

Lets just hope the sharply narrowed agenda doesn't have any anti-gun elements to it.

Regardless, this is good news.

M203Sniper
November 10, 2008, 12:46 AM
He's going to dance for 4 years people. Pay attention.

Just like that guy in NY this one also bought himself an elected office. Now let's see that he suffers for it. Write a letter.

Prince Yamato
November 10, 2008, 01:02 AM
Regardless of what he has done, let us still keep this fight up. If he can use finances to further his political ambitions (becoming president), so can we use our finances to fight for our civil liberties. Keep buying folks.

Sun195
November 10, 2008, 02:33 AM
...and making guns in this country childproof.

This worries me quite a bit. In the name of "child safety", they'll make guns practically unusable for their intended purpose (whether that's defense, hunting, target shooting - whatever). This is also the type of thing that might come out of an Executive Order. But, they still respect Second Amendment rights...

denfoote
November 10, 2008, 02:45 AM
I just hope that the frightened sheeple have the cajonies to use their new found toys when and if the time comes!!

“The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

Samuel Adams
Brewer, Patriot

Jorg Nysgerrig
November 10, 2008, 02:49 AM
I just hope that the frightened sheeple have the cajonies to use their new found toys when and if the time comes!!

Posts like these make me embarassed to be a member of this board. :rolleyes:

Using terms like "sheeple" makes you sound like an idiot. Perhaps these new gun owners would prefer to be embraced by the shooting community instead being insulted because they may not lay awake in their Red Dawn Underoos plotting for when "the time comes."

Now, more than ever, is the time for gun owners to represent themselves well. Our words, attitudes and actions in the coming months and years will have a profound effect on the future of gun ownership.

MD_Willington
November 10, 2008, 09:08 AM
That section of the website needed to be cached and exposed, the MSM will not help though... need the pajama media to do it...

Mike Sr.
November 10, 2008, 09:13 AM
please post everything here; i can not get the link to open!

NCsmitty
November 10, 2008, 09:36 AM
I don't think that they're *scared* so much as clever. They want to keep divisive issues out of the limelight until the timing suits them better.

You are so right rbernie, my thoughts exactly.

NCsmitty

RPCVYemen
November 10, 2008, 10:41 AM
Using termed like "sheeple" make you sound like an idiot.

I couldn't agree more.

I usually don't comment on spelling, because I am such a bad speller, but "cajonies" sound like little cajones - which is probably not what you meant. :)

Evil

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 10:48 AM
''Sheeple'' offends you guys? .....Really?

Feud
November 10, 2008, 10:49 AM
It may be gone on the change.gov website, but it's still on his other one:

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crime-and-law-enforcement

RPCVYemen
November 10, 2008, 10:54 AM
Oh, about an hour into his show, the page was taken down.

Somehow I doubt that whatever Tom Gresham said made any difference - I had never heard of him before, and I doubt that the maintainers of change.gov have every heard of him, or care what he had to say.

Mike

Highland Ranger
November 10, 2008, 11:06 AM
Halfway down page 4 - I highlighted it for you.

This is the excerpt as well:

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from hildren and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

That last line could imply an expansion of the old AWB if you think about it.

moooose102
November 10, 2008, 11:10 AM
This is also the type of thing that might come out of an Executive Order.
"EXECUTIVE ORDER" those words are the ones i fear the most. partly, because i do not know what type of limitations there are on such an order, and seconly, because i dont know if there is a damned thing we can do about one. i am certain there are some limitations, or it would be just like dictatorship.

retgarr
November 10, 2008, 11:17 AM
Sheeple shows disdain for fellow citizens, who are reticent to support a cause if a representative from that cause is insulting to them.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 11:20 AM
They aren't going to anyway,they're sheeple.

taliv
November 10, 2008, 11:23 AM
''Sheeple'' offends you guys? .....Really?

it's not that it offends me. it just makes me question the education and upbringing of people who use the term.

much like people who watch daytime TV...

SSN Vet
November 10, 2008, 11:23 AM
and the truth has been told...

the rush is on now and for good reason...

They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 11:42 AM
''it's not that it offends me. it just makes me question the education and upbringing of people who use the term.

much like people who watch daytime TV...''

I wish I could take credit for coining the term,[notice my tag line] but I believe it was coined or at least popularised,by Dr. Michael Savage,who is not an uneducated man.it describes,quite well,in my opinion ,the willfully ignorant.

Lookn4Brass
November 10, 2008, 12:17 PM
Folks (pardon, but I'm originally from north AL), remember the line in "The Untouchables" with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery? Elliot Ness was asked "What are you prepared to do?!" as his friend was dying. Well, what ARE you prepared to do? I hope we are all prepared to stick together, make our voice heard as lawfully and vigorously as possible for as long as it takes, even to our own hurt (financially and time-wise) if necessary. Educate your family and those around you as best you can. Be the "better" man. Send e-mails. Make phone calls. Write letters. Even if you don't want to sometimes. As for the call to arms, we had better leave that alone on this forum. I'm not willing to share all my views on that publicly. I have a family and a business to run. I sincerely hope most of you feel the same. We had better keep the "I got your back, brother" mentality if we're going to survive.

I truly believe that those who oppose us are not worthy of my full thoughts. They're not mature enough to handle and respect my opinions OR yours on that, from my experience. But remember this: the REASON our ancestors left England or wherever else and then eventually HAD TO take a stand HERE was because of people who think like moveon.org, HCI, George Soros, and alot of other misguided, socially blind, non-caring dim-wits. These people are not well. They are not interested in "fairness". That's just a catch phrase to cover their militant agenda. Just look what they've done to SanFrancisco and to their behavior at Disney parks and what they tried to do to Tom Selleck. Don't think Rosie O is the only one of her kind. And yes, they are messed up in the head. That's not even worth the time to debate it. You know it, and I know it.

krs
November 10, 2008, 12:23 PM
So...nobody thinks that the page was a fake, eh?

Who's agenda would it serve to plant a page like that? Not people who sell guns , ammo, mags?...................No, couldn't be.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 12:25 PM
''And yes, they are messed up in the head. That's not even worth the time to debate it. You know it, and I know it...''

Reaching across the aisle,holding hands and singing ''Kumbayah'' with the lefties didn't win us any elections,either.

Justin
November 10, 2008, 12:32 PM
it's not that it offends me. it just makes me question the education and upbringing of people who use the term.

much like people who watch daytime TV...

Bingo. I had copied the original quote with the express intent of typing almost exactly the same thing.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 12:36 PM
I don't think Ben Franklin watched much TV....

CSestp
November 10, 2008, 12:37 PM
Alright I want to post this here because it will receive the most flak I believe. I love my right to my firearms as long as I am a law abiding citizian. I am not sure, but I think we are the only country that allows us the freedoms it does when it comes to firearms (wouldn't mine correction here). Which is why I am now so scared, because this issue with the upcomming administration is actully been bumped down on my prioritys.

I am not the most educated man, so I will not pretend to understand half of what I just heard. What I have gotten out of this is that the Gov. is going to try and seize 401k and IRA plans, and transfer them to the SSA to administer them. One of the few things I got out of the deal was that if/when you die, you can only pass on half of what is in your 401k or IRA. There were other things such as that anything contributed by your job that is automaticaly given to the Gov.. Also everyone will be guaranteed at least 600 dollars a year. If you put in over 600.00 nothing is put into your account. If you put in anything less (even if you dont put in anything) the gov will put in whatever is nessary to meet 600.00. In other words if joe blow the crack head doesn't contribute everything we are footing the 600.00 bill out of OUR 401k and IRA's.

What I am getting at is I understand the well placed fear of our guns being taken away from us. I do not think that is the bigger issue anylonger. As I said I am not well educated on these sort of things, and more or less asking how do we fight this. I do not believe in using the gov. system to fight this because I believe it has finally been broken beond repair. Maybe not I do not know please disscuss.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 12:40 PM
all good points,but probably outside the scope of ''general gun discussions''?

Shung
November 10, 2008, 12:47 PM
but I think we are the only country that allows us the freedoms it does when it comes to firearms

you are on the top 5 list, but on some aspects you are not leading it-

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 12:55 PM
Who are the other three?We all [most of us] know about and revere Switzerland,and I know there must be more...but who are they?

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 12:56 PM
Well,Canada is OK,but like us,they're being whittled away at from within....

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 10, 2008, 01:00 PM
it's not that it offends me. it just makes me question the education and upbringing of people who use the term.

much like people who watch daytime TV...

That's odd, because I myself think if you watch soap operas, you're a simpleton, and yet find the word "sheeple" quite fitting and apropros. I use the word because, although a slang term, it is concise and yet conveys a lot of meaning in a short word or phrase. That's the hallmark of good diction; saying the most with the least amount of words. Sheeple aptly describes the unwashed middle-of-the-road masses who, like sheep, just follow the herd unquestioningly, even if it means directly into danger, don't fight back, and don't take proactive steps to insulate themselves from danger. "Sheeple" is a very descriptive term and much, much shorter. Hence its use by me and many other very smart and educated people. There *may* be a reason not to use it, but it being inherently reflective of gump-ism is not one of them.

SHEEPLE, SHEEPLE, SHEEPLE!!!!!! :p :neener: :D

Now I would NOT apply the word to gun owners who are out there right now scooping up semi-auto rifles (as did the person who originally used the phrase in this thread) - these people are the opposite of sheeple - they are taking proactive steps to protect themselves from an oppressive government, preemptively. But do apply it to anyone who just goes along to get along, unaware of all of the danger in their surroundings (in and from their government). These may or may not be gun owners. They are typically not involved in politics, and certainly not to any large degree, and may or may not even vote.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 01:02 PM
Well put Premium Sauces.I'm a one finger ''typist'',and not terribly eloquent,so thank you for putting it so succinctly!

Highland Ranger
November 10, 2008, 01:09 PM
Rush is on the air talking about this now . . . .

JaxNovice
November 10, 2008, 01:11 PM
This thread degenerated into something stupid very quickly.

Jim K
November 10, 2008, 01:27 PM
It is just the old "guns that have no sporting purpose" baloney all over again. Since by the definitions used by the anti-gun gang, only $50,000 double barrel shotguns are "sporting guns." All other guns are "evil murder weapons" and "military guns that belong on battlefields."

As for keeping antiques, no way. One anti-gun writer even deplored the collecting of Revolutionary War muskets, "just as deadly as they were then" and demanded such "evil weapons" be confiscated and destroyed.

Jim

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 02:14 PM
Zumboisim.

bdickens
November 10, 2008, 02:29 PM
+1 on the "sheeple." The word accurately describes the mentality of the people it is intended for.

BHP FAN
November 10, 2008, 02:37 PM
Those who are NOT offended are intelligent enough to realise it does not apply to them.The others,you gotta wonder about...

taliv
November 10, 2008, 09:39 PM
it is concise and yet conveys a lot of meaning in a short word or phrase.

it certainly does and I don't deny that.

but it also says as much about the people who use the term.

it smacks of wildly-misplaced arrogance. i say misplaced because based on a few years of posting trends, there's a high correlation between "sheeple"-users and
a) an unfortunate juvenile attitude that having a gun makes you safe, superior, or excessively empowered, etc.
b) open carry antagonists
c) police bashers

Seriously, if the mods here didn't relentlessly deliver beatdowns on ***bloodlust*** posts in S&T, you'd see.

anyway, it's sort of like dropping the "N" word. doesn't mean you're automatically a racist, but you'd better believe it will change people's opinions of you.

associate yourself with michael savage at your peril.

JWarren
November 10, 2008, 09:46 PM
I don't particularly like the word "sheeple."

That said, I am having a great deal of difficulty coming up with a MORE accurate word for a great number of Americans that voted for Obama.

A HUGE percentage of the supporters that I spoke to could not come up with one specific platform issue that they voted for.

That sounds awefully like the term.


-- john

hso
November 10, 2008, 10:37 PM
Think about it.

Our mission at THR is to reach as many people as possible and convince them that law-abiding gunowners are not a threat to anyone and restrictions on us are wrong.

Now it doesn't do much good to try to reach gunnies. We're already aware of this and we're, for the most part, for "us".

It doesn't do any good to try to reach devoted gun prohibitionists. They know this but don't care. They don't want anyone to have any guns regardless of reason.

That leaves everyone else. That vast majority of Americans. The ones we need to reach are the people that some members want to call "sheeple". How do we reach people that we label and lump into a negative stereotype? How do we get a chance to convert them when we call them names? We only hurt our cause if we resort to that sort of simple demonization.

That's why we don't like labeling and name calling at THR and that's why we don't like using the term "sheeple".

RPCVYemen
November 10, 2008, 11:04 PM
The ones we need to reach are the people that some members want to call "sheeple". How do we reach people that we label and lump into a negative stereotype?

This - to me - is the key point. You need to decide whether you want to convert people to your cause or call them names. Calling people names is easy - visit any 3rd grade playground during recess - converting people is hard. But the reward of converting people is far higher.

If we convert 80% of the electorate to our cause, no mainstream candidate will be in favor of "gun control".

Mike

Justin
November 10, 2008, 11:09 PM
Plainly, this thread has run its course.

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