Executive Orders to Come Quickly


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Thin Black Line
November 10, 2008, 07:33 AM
Using executive orders on firearms is nothing new and has happened in our
lifetime already. Dismissing this issue now as "mere specualtion" when it
comes to this rabidly anti-Second Amendment president-elect would be
short-sighted!


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3412171/Barack-Obama-prepares-to-reverse-hundreds-of-Bush-directives.html

Mr Podesta, who is heading the president-elect's transition team, said that the incoming administration was reviewing Bush's executive orders on stem cell research, oil and gas drilling, and other matters.

He told Fox television that the idea was to use executive orders to move quickly without waiting for Congress to act.

"I'm not going to preview decisions that he has yet to make. But I would say that as a candidate, Senator Obama said that he wanted all the Bush executive orders reviewed, and decide which ones should be kept, and which ones should be repealed, and which ones should be amended. And that process is going on. It's been undertaken," said Mr Podesta, who was chief of staff under President Bill Clinton.

"There's a lot that the president can do using his executive authority without waiting for congressional action," he added.


http://www.newsobserver.com/nation_world/story/1288139.html

"Obama's advantage of course is he'll have the House and the Senate working with him, and that makes it easier," said Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond. "But even then, having an immediate impact is very difficult to do because the machinery of government doesn't move that quickly."
...
Executive orders "have the power of law and they can cover just about anything," Tobias said in a telephone interview.

Yep, this is prepping the public for the "git r done" man-o-change...

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TexasRifleman
November 10, 2008, 07:55 AM
Executive orders "have the power of law and they can cover just about anything,

Funny, when I said that 6 months ago all the Constitutional Scholars on here told me I was out of my mind, that they clearly could NOT be used in such a way, that they only had a very limited scope.

Guess someone forgot to tell the O-Man.

hso
November 10, 2008, 08:17 AM
TR, that's been my understanding also.

An executive order is supposed to be a clarifying instruction to a federal agency, but such orders can change how or even what an agency enforces. They're also supposed to be based on existing law and aren't supposed to create new laws.

Can an executive order have a huge impact on Americans? As an extreme example, ask all the Americans of Japanese ancestry who were interned in camps during WWII? That was done on an executive order (although it was overturned). For the most part they're more subtle.

Here's a link to the executive orders issued by our current president - http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/

Bubba613
November 10, 2008, 08:53 AM
Not going to happen. Sorry.
The ones mentioned specifically, drilling and stem cell research, are already the subject of EOs. In the case of drilling it had no effect because Congress has its own legislation in place prohibiting drilling. So any change in EO will not make a difference.

GunTech
November 10, 2008, 09:11 AM
Bush I banned the importation of assault weapons by EO, but that is quite different than a domestic ban (particularly after Heller). Further, government agencies are going to be very careful about radical rule changes. Career bureaucrats are very cogent of the fact that administrations change every 4 years and congress can change every two. The founders designed a ponderous governmental system that was resistant to sweeping changes.

Thin Black Line
November 10, 2008, 09:19 AM
Although I can appreciate the perpetually positive outlook, let's not turn off
the radar screens in the meantime. Look at the guy's record on the 2A and
look at the powers assumed in recent history by the use of the EOs. This
is not a good combination.

Bubba613
November 10, 2008, 09:37 AM
What is Obama's history with the 2A? He doesn't have one, aside from a number of statements. That's one issue with him, a complete tabula rasa.
Now, I don't think for a second that if an AWB hit his desk he'd give two thoughts about not signing it. But I do think he has bigger fish to fry than guns, which are a losing issue.

X-Rap
November 10, 2008, 09:43 AM
Keep thinking that Bubba and other like minded folks, as we sit in this nice warm water.
By the way doesn't it feel hotter today than yesterday?:eek:

TexasRifleman
November 10, 2008, 09:48 AM
For the most part they're more subtle.

You forgot to add "up until now" to that. Obama's team is clearly looking to see how far they can push the EO envelope.

We'll see. As I've said for a while it would not take many "subtle" EOs to end all ammo imports into the US or somesuch.

Who exactly do you think is going to challenge the legality of any EO's that Obama might put in place? Congress? Justice?

X-Rap
November 10, 2008, 10:01 AM
Don't be surprise how important gun legislation will become to the big issues of Energy, Healthcare, and Economy. There will likely be anti gun amendments in many bills comming from congress.

everallm
November 10, 2008, 10:05 AM
The three Executive Orders mentioned have no impact, direct or indirect on constitutionally guaranteed rights or responsibilities.

In the same manner as an EO taxing raw newsprint would go down in flames, an EO in direct contravention of elements of 2A (particularly as articulated in Heller) would show the new "Change Presidency" as doing the same sort of cack as the outgoing regime.

Not in Obama's interests, cost too much for too little return.

Thin Black Line
November 10, 2008, 10:15 AM
As I've said for a while it would not take many "subtle" EOs to end all ammo imports into the US or somesuch.

Oh, gee, you mean use the precedent set by a previous president through
an EO and turn off all that Russian, Romanian, Italian, German, UK, Korean,
South African, Serbian, etc ammo still being imported? Surely, no one on
the O-Team is even thinking about that...just paranoid gun-nuts like us, right?

What would an expanded ammo import ban by EO do to the price of a box of
223, 308, x39, x54, boys and girls?

No one will have stopped our 2A --they'll just make it too expensive for us to go
shooting. ;)

Obama's team is clearly looking to see how far they can push the EO envelope.

IMHO the O-Team has sent out their A-2 announcement envelopes and I
think we should be on the look-out for a personally-addressed 13 1/2.

Bubba613
November 10, 2008, 10:22 AM
Keep thinking that Bubba and other like minded folks, as we sit in this nice warm water.
By the way doesn't it feel hotter today than yesterday?

I never thought paranoia was a good substitute for thought.
There is a certain amount of mischief the Pres can do by EO. But that is very limited.
Again, it comes down to, how committed is Obama to gun control, how much political capital is he willing to spend on it, what's in it for him?
The answers are: if asked he's in favor of it, none, not a darn thing. People who want gun control are already his backers, they have no place to go. The people opposed to it are really really opposed to it and it will cost dearly to get it. And if he does institute something by EO what does he get out of it? There is nothing tangible and a lot that tells against doing it.

Zundfolge
November 10, 2008, 11:25 AM
An executive order is supposed to be a clarifying instruction to a federal agency, but such orders can change how or even what an agency enforces. They're also supposed to be based on existing law and aren't supposed to create new laws.
This is true.

However we do have many government agencies that can create instruments that have the force and power of law all on their own without congress.

The BATFE is one of these agencies ... ATF regulations have the weight of law and can be created out of thin air on a whim.

While many FFLs are reaping the benefits of an Obama win right now with higher sales volume, you can expect many of them to be out of business by this time next year if The One so wishes it.

Beagle-zebub
November 10, 2008, 02:45 PM
The BATFE is one of these agencies ... ATF regulations have the weight of law and can be created out of thin air on a whim.

While many FFLs are reaping the benefits of an Obama win right now with higher sales volume, you can expect many of them to be out of business by this time next year if The One so wishes it.

Quite correct.

Remember when we used to be able to get American milsurp ammunition? (Without it being broken down into components.) IIRC, that ended thanks to a Clinton executive order.

Bubba613
November 10, 2008, 03:22 PM
While many FFLs are reaping the benefits of an Obama win right now with higher sales volume, you can expect many of them to be out of business by this time next year if The One so wishes it.

This is the scary part.
Currently the law does not distinguish between a clerical error and a criminal error. So if a dealer makes a clerical error on a 4473 that isn't really different from falsifying one.
Every dealer has errors somewhere in his paperwork. It is impossible not to. So all it would take is an EO to go enforce this and pull the licenses of "rogue" dealers.

Master Blaster
November 10, 2008, 04:03 PM
Did you guys get the notice about the Arsenal License you will need to own more than three pistols and 3 rifles, and or 1000 rounds of ammo, or more than 1lb of smokeless propellant , or 100 primers or components sufficient....YADDA YADDA SHUBUM...

License fee is $500 per year, plus $50 per firearm, and the ATF must inspect premises, and your inventory / books at least once a year....
All firecodes must be followed, fire proff cabinets, ...... Carbon credits purchased to offset etc etc humina humina...

Just a clarification of the law, that it applies to non licenses, and establish common sense saftey measures....prevent fires, keep unregistered BLA BLAH BLAH out of the hands of criminals YADDA YADDA,

It could cost us thousands to keep our current hobby going, and subject us to fines and lengthy prison terms for non compliance, all as a matter of clarifying the current laws and regulations.

It just depends on whether Obama wants to try it just to see if it will stick..
As far as having no second amendment record goes, thats nonsense

He picked Mr. anti 2nd Joe Biden as VP.
He has said he supports semi auto bans and prohibiting concealed carry licenses at a federal level, outlawing it in the states.

Please go to his website look up crime, and read about the new assault weapon ban he proposes in his own words, his position on the 2nd amendment,

K3
November 10, 2008, 04:08 PM
Did you guys gt the notice about the Arsenal License you will need to own more than three pistols and 3 rifles, and or 1000 rounds of ammo, or more tan 1lb of smokeless propellant , or 100 primers or components sufficient....

Notice where?

TAB
November 10, 2008, 04:13 PM
I'm buying stock in tin foil...


Will not happen, read articals 1-3 of the USCONS.

Jeff White
November 10, 2008, 04:16 PM
Not at all gun related.

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