Remington 700 vs. Ruger 77


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Ninja42
November 10, 2008, 09:53 AM
Ive wanted a boltgun for the longest time now, and this winter it finally seems like I will be able to afford it, so I took the liberty of checking out the market, and after thorough speculations I am now copletely torn between two seemingly excellent guns :(

I will be using this gun almost exclusively as a hunting rifle, and as I want to be able to take fairly long shots with it I will be using it with a scope. The rifle I will either be chambered in .308 or .30-06, it will be made from blued steel and walnut, and I want it to be ready for work out of the box if at all possible.

Can you guys help me pointing out the advantages and disadvantages of either gun? I would also love some recommendations on a good scope? Money is an issue here, so I cant just get both, but not so much of an issue that I will choose the ruger over the remington for it, unless the general consensus is that the rifles are equally good.

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jbech123
November 10, 2008, 10:08 AM
Individual guns will vary, but on the whole, the Remingtons will be a tad more accurate. There are Remington's that will shoot bad, and ruger's that will shoot 1/2" out of the box, but overall the remmy's are a bit more accurate. I personally have owned 4 ruger's and 10+ Remmy's and found this to be true. That said, the difference for hunting applications out to 300 yards or so is negligable. So it depends on what you plan to use it for. If you want to punch paper out past 400 yards, the remmy may be better. For hunting, I'd personally take a ruger. The ruger has controlled round feed and most remmy's are push feed. Not a huge factor on a deer rifle but there are advantages. The main thing I hate about a remmy for hardcore hunting is that the bolt doesn't lock, so if you are climbing through thick stuff the bolt handle catches on stuff and is always coming open. Non-issue with the ruger, the bolt is locked when the safety is on.

aka108
November 10, 2008, 10:10 AM
Rugers have, in my experience, not been the most accurate out of the box rifles. Remingtons have been very good. I know some with differ with my opinion but just giving you may take on it. I've sold off most of the Rugers I've owned and won't be buying any more.

Shawnee
November 10, 2008, 10:10 AM
Have owned at least eight 700s and four 77s. Both have always been very good rifles. My 700s have consistantly shot slightly better groups than the 77s. Have had to have minor repairs done on two of the 77s and have had no repairs needed on the 700s. All but one of the Remington triggers have been better than any of the 77 triggers.

Hard to beat a Nikon Buckmaster scope for value/price/warrenty.


Good Luck !

:cool:

Brad Clodfelter
November 10, 2008, 10:30 AM
The Reminton 700BDL would be my choice.

ArmedBear
November 10, 2008, 10:53 AM
My vote is None of the Above.

Remingtons need aftermarket safeties to be used for hunting, unless you hunt from a luxury stand. They're also expensive, for what they are.

Rugers have a reputation for spotty accuracy. I haven't bought any, but a recent Gun Tests review found that this was still true for the supposedly improved "Hawkeye" gun they bought.

If you want a basic push-feed hunting rifle, Weatherby's Vanguard is every bit as good as the Remington, they tell you how to adjust the trigger (not "certified technician only" crap), and it has a bolt-locking safety. They're very accurate rifles. I have the Sporter in .30-06 and it's a great piece, out of the box. I put a Burris Fullfield II on it, sighted it in, and used it.

Savage's Accu-Trigger, if you like it, provides a wonderful trigger pull with no dinking around necessary. Their guns are light, economical, and accurate.

Winchester makes the Model 70 again. I'd like a Featherweight. Wonderful rifle, with wonderful handling.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 10, 2008, 10:59 AM
Yes, I too would like to know *how we got down to* these two final choices - by what criteria did you eliminate the Vanguard/Howa, the CZ 550, the Savage 14, the Winchester 70, and the Browning A-bolt & X-bolt? But without knowing more, of those two choices, I would definitely go wtih the Remington 700 in some variety such as the 700 CDL (or a Remington model Seven if going with .308).

For a beauteous wood & blued, I like CZ 550 the best, followed by Remington 700 CDL (or Remington Seven CDL), Winchester 70 Featherweight, Browning A-bolt, Weatherby Vanguard Deluxe, and Savage 14 Classic. I would never purchase another Ruger.

Brad Clodfelter
November 10, 2008, 11:30 AM
It's just hard to beat a Remington 700BDL. Still the best looking bolt action in my opinion for the price. It's also the best selling.

Here's my son's 700BDL 25-06. This gun will stack bullets at 100yds.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/brad541thb/Rem700BDL25-06Medium.jpg

Horsemany
November 10, 2008, 12:52 PM
I've never had a Rem 700 bolt open up accidentally. I grew up deer hunting central/northern Wisconsin in brush so thick you had to wack backwards and push your way through. The 700 bolt actually has a fairly stiff spring to get the bolt lifted. I'd like to see how many people that's actually happened to.

blarney
November 10, 2008, 01:39 PM
Rem700

jbech123
November 10, 2008, 02:22 PM
I've never had a Rem 700 bolt open up accidentally. I grew up deer hunting central/northern Wisconsin in brush so thick you had to wack backwards and push your way through. The 700 bolt actually has a fairly stiff spring to get the bolt lifted. I'd like to see how many people that's actually happened to.
I just returned from a Utah hunt, semiopen terrain but a lot of oak brush to get through. It happened to me at least 10 times on a 7 day hunt. Not the end of the world or anything, but annoying for sure. I like remingtons and own several, but this has happened to me many times.

Horsemany
November 10, 2008, 02:31 PM
Quote:
I've never had a Rem 700 bolt open up accidentally. I grew up deer hunting central/northern Wisconsin in brush so thick you had to wack backwards and push your way through. The 700 bolt actually has a fairly stiff spring to get the bolt lifted. I'd like to see how many people that's actually happened to.

I just returned from a Utah hunt, semiopen terrain but a lot of oak brush to get through. It happened to me at least 10 times on a 7 day hunt. Not the end of the world or anything, but annoying for sure. I like remingtons and own several, but this has happened to me many times.

I find that VERY hard to believe. I've hunted with others using 700's and used them myself for the last 20 years. It's never happened to me or anyone I've hunted with once. Like clockwork though there's always someone here who wants to rub your nose in it. Were you chopping camp wood with it?

Omaha-BeenGlockin
November 10, 2008, 02:41 PM
Have been in the process of the last week or so to get a new bolt action.

I wanted stainless--reasonably priced and American made.

I bought the Ruger.

I'd rate the Remington a notch or two below Savage in materials and fit and finish these days and I consider Savage god-awfull nasty.

In the sub $700 range---nothing beats the Ruger currently.

ArmedBear
November 10, 2008, 03:00 PM
someone here who wants to rub your nose in it

Horsemany, unless you work for Remington, why do you take this personally? Nobody was rubbing anyone's nose in anything.

Besides, you can get an aftermarket 3-position safety AFAIK.

The question to me is, why, on rifles that Remington is charging a pretty penny for these days, should you have to spend extra money to get a feature that every other rifle includes from the factory (not to mention that Remington warranty service is known for returning everything to "factory condition" including replacing 'smited triggers, etc.)?

MT GUNNY
November 10, 2008, 03:06 PM
Armed Bear

Could you explain this ? I've hunted for years with a Rem 700 (3) and Never had a safety Issue.







87535

Geno
November 10, 2008, 03:11 PM
Between the two, I say Remington (per experience). However, I suggest the Weatherby Vanguard over both. For $425.00, where else will you find a 100% forged barrelled action, and a factory target assuring that the rifle is 1.5 MOA accurate.

Horsemany
November 10, 2008, 03:14 PM
Armed Bear

I do not work for Remington and I own both Rugers and Remingtons. My issue is this; no matter what you say on this forum, there are ALWAYS folks lurking waiting to prove you wrong. One must generalize about a lot of the topics here. That means there will always be exceptions. As a general rule the fact the bolt does not lock on ANY rifle means nothing to me. In fact I prefer a simpler SAFE or NOT SAFE type safety. And that's coming from someone who collects pre-64 model 70's, the original 3 position safety guns. I don't care if people here disagree. THis is an opinion forum. Some members only add to the discussion to try to prove someone else wrong. I'm positive if we conducted a poll of everyone who hunts with 700's there would be damn few who've ever had the bolt open on accident. I'm not saying 700's are perfect. I've ripped them enough in my day. But in the list of negatives about 700's this isn't one of them IMO. Thank you for your concern ArmedBear.

Shawnee
November 10, 2008, 03:24 PM
Not meaning to throw any gasoline on the fire but I've used 700s a lot for many years and this is the first I've heard of the bolt coming open all by itself.
Won't say it doesn't happen to someone somewhere - just that this is the first I've ever heard of it.

:cool:

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
November 10, 2008, 03:38 PM
+1 Remington 700 bdl

Reid73
November 10, 2008, 03:39 PM
Rugers are very reliable firearms but usually boast only mediocre accuracy, and will almost certainly require a fair bit of tuning. Please note that their (non-adjustable) triggers are terrible; plan on spending $50-$100 for a replacement trigger, plus a gunsmithing fee if you don't want to do the installation yourself.

I'm not a big Remington fan. Like Ruger, the factory is always trying to skimp on fit and finish because most customers are too cheap to pay for quality. Fair enough, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

The 700 is not nearly as visually attractive as a 77, at least to my eye. The compact 77RSI model would be my choice in a Ruger.

You should be aware that the 77 and 700 are are essentially budget rifles. I realize that "money is an issue here", but if I were in your shoes I would save up and buy a better product (e.g. Weatherby Vanguard Sporter, Browning X-bolt, CZ 550). Personally, I'd rather one good rifle than a collection of two or three mediocre ones. In firearms, you tend to get what you pay for.

You might consider shopping around for a secondhand Mark V, Sako, Husqvarna, Kimber or equivalent. This article (http://www.chuckhawks.com/used_rifle.htm), this article (http://www.deer-elk-turkey-hunting-shooting-tips.com/ezines/used-rifles-feb06.htm) and this article (http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/bb/aabyb_usedrifle.htm) may help.

The choice of scope is up to you, but FWIW you really can't go far wrong buying Leopold. Cheap optics are usually a terrible way to save money, although some of the Bushnell Banner scopes aren't bad.

I just returned from a Utah hunt, semiopen terrain but a lot of oak brush to get through. It happened to me at least 10 times on a 7 day hunt. Not the end of the world or anything, but annoying for sure. I like remingtons and own several, but this has happened to me many times.Anything is possible, and since you say it has happened, I for one accept that. I must say that I am surprised to hear it, though.

CRITGIT
November 10, 2008, 03:50 PM
For years my Ruger77 MKII in.22-250 got sand kicked in it's face by my shooting buddies with their Rem 700's. After some judicious "load work ups" and seating depth measurements the once 90lb weakling Ruger now kicks Rem 700 butt....bad!
Loads and seating depth are of paramount importance!

CRITGIT

Girodin
November 10, 2008, 04:01 PM
I've never had a Remington 700 bolt open in a fair amount of hunting with one. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but in twelve years of hunting I've never experienced it.

KINGMAX
November 10, 2008, 04:11 PM
I have a REMI 700 ADL in .270. I really like mine. It has been one great rifle, no problems.

SlamFire1
November 10, 2008, 04:28 PM
I have one Ruger M77 in 308, a 26" barreled varmit model, I have two Remington 700's ADL's, one in 30-06.

My Ruger has a non adjustable two stage trigger. It had creep, I took the trigger apart, short story, it was a horrible experience. I removed the offending burr, and once assembled, the trigger is great.

My 700's have adjustable triggers, and I have adjusted them to 2.5 pound pulls and they are great.

My Ruger is capable of target grade accuracy. My Remingtons are plenty accurate for hunting rifles.

Both actions are examples of excellent design. Both are smooth safe actions. The Remington action has been made since the late 40's, it has shown itself to be a durable action. The trigger mechanism has had its problems, and Remington recently replaced the old mechanism. My M700's are smooth operating rifles.

Ruger has consistantly improved the M77 action, I like the three position safety, the claw extractor, various little stuff. Ruger hit a home run with this action.

Both actions have to be bedded to reach the potential of the barrels. Today I am finishing the bedding of a laminated stock for the M700 in 30-06. When I bedded the other M700, it improved the accuracy of the rifle around 50%. When I bedded the Ruger (which is a real pain to bed, that angled front tang screw makes it a mess) it brought groups from 1.0/1.25 MOA close to half MOA.

My opinion, go to the store and handle the rifles. Pick the one that puts your hand in a good firing position, a comfortable stock, and one that has the best trigger.

Or, toss a coin. ;)

targshooter
November 10, 2008, 05:18 PM
I have several Ruger Model 77 bolt rifles on hand (7), and all but one are as accurate as the average Remington I've owned. Before Ruger made their own barrels I had a dog; but for the past 15+ years I've had as good results from them as anyone. That said, the most accurate hunting rifle I ever owned was a Remington, the least accurate a Winchester. I used to do some long term (3weeks to a month, a days treck from the logging road) wilderness hunting, and the Winchesters and Rugers with their claw extractors could be counted on to remove verdigris coated ammo from the chamber, whereas the Remington extractor could not. For the average hunter with the ability to keep the ammo dry and wiped down, this is not an issue. For the usual big game hunt where the shot is limited to 300 to a max of 350 yards, I would choose either. For longer distances or small targets, I would buy a custom rifle with a guarantee of at least .5MOA accuracy.

ArmedBear
November 10, 2008, 05:23 PM
Could you explain this ? I've hunted for years with a Rem 700 (3) and Never had a safety Issue.


Never been to Kalispell, but where I've hunted in Montana, there wasn't a lot of heavy brush to worry about. :)

Hunting in the California mountains, there is thick brush that will scrape you up, rip your clothes, and open the bolt on a rifle nice and quick. And you have to bushwhack through it.

Bottom line? Remington skimps. Their products these days are often overpriced for what they are. If you want to pay more, and not get a feature that's part of every other rifle, it's your business. But the OP asked for a comparison, and that IS a difference between the rifles, and it matters to some of us.

Doc2005 is right on.

Reid73
November 10, 2008, 05:36 PM
Both actions have to be bedded to reach the potential of the barrels.+1.

Since Ninja42 specified that he wanted the rifle "to be ready for work out of the box if at all possible", I would go with the Weatherby Vanguard.

homers
November 10, 2008, 07:41 PM
I, for one, love the looks of the ruger M77.

Geno
November 10, 2008, 09:59 PM
homers said:

I, for one, love the looks of the ruger M77.

I sure can't disagree with you there! The Ruger M77s are drop-dead beautiful, especially the bolt and the integral base. :cool:

Doc2005

Meeteetse
November 10, 2008, 10:33 PM
Owned one Remington 700 (30-06). It was a fine rifle but it did not shoot well for me. Sold it.

I now own several Rugers that shoot equally as well or better than the Remington. I like the triggers better and IMO the Ruger is a very handsome rifle.

I don't know what accuracy is expected in most hunting rifles, but 90% of my Ruger rifles are 1"-1 1/2" and that is just fine with me. The other 10% of my rifles are sub MOA varmint guns. For the money I don't think you can beat Ruger.

interlock
November 11, 2008, 01:23 AM
i have a remmy model 7 in 7mm08 and it is a great rifle and i have a ruger m77 mk2 which started it's life as a stutzen, i have cut the forestock down and floated the very slim barrel and it is now a sporter and it is also a great rifle. they both shoot very well. both are a bit fussy with ammunition but both are great game getting tools, my advice would be go with what you like the look of. pay attention to getting the right calibre, consider 7mm08 or .260 rem as well. i run a bushnell banner 3-9 x 50 on one of my rifles and a 3-9 x 40 trophy on my model 7. they are great scopes for the money.

as for the safety catch/ bolt openning issue.... never been a problem for me

interlock

WardenWolf
November 11, 2008, 02:42 AM
Another thing you might want to consider is shooter comfort. Remingtons have a tendency to be brutal guns, with little or no recoil padding stock. There's always aftermarket Limbsaver pads, but this is something to consider because, if you flinch, you're not going to shoot it very well. I have also heard a few rumors that Remington's quality might be declining somewhat, although I've yet to see any specific examples cited.

The Remington 7mm round is not a favorite of mine either. The 7mm takes a "small caliber, high velocity" approach. This can result in overpenetration and not enough kinetic energy transferred to the target. I have heard of .308 rounds completely knocking a deer off its feet, but the 7mm may blow through completely resulting in a long chase. It all depends on what you're planning to hunt. For the most accurate, most effective deer rifle, you might be more happy with a .308 than a 7mm. If you're planning on hunting something truly massive like bull moose, you might go for a 30-06 or a similarly sized cartridge.

MachIVshooter
November 11, 2008, 08:38 AM
Ruger has consistantly improved the M77 action, I like the three position safety, the claw extractor, various little stuff. Ruger hit a home run with this action.

You mean with the 105 year old Mauser design?

Ruger actions are plenty smooth, but I'll stop short of giving them credit for it's creation.

Between the M700 and M77, I choose the 700. I own 3 700's and 2 77's, and it would have been 4 to 1 if Remington had offered the .220 Swift in their 700 VLS 2 years ago. Remingtons just shoot better.

That said, when we went rifle shoppong for my little sister's first big game gun we opted for the M77 over the 700 for one reason; the 26" barrel on the .280-chambered M700 is a much worse tree branch snagger than the 22" M77. If there is something like this that you find preferable about the M77, then go with it.

Also, this Rumor of M700's bolts opening while hiking through the brush is just that. I've never carried anything but an M700 through some of the nastiest scrub oak South-Western Colorado has to offer, and it never happened to me. And I actually like the ability to unload the rifle with the safety engaged.

BENELLIMONTE
November 11, 2008, 08:57 AM
Ninja,

If you are limiting yourself to the 700 or the M77 I would go with the Remington in 30-06. I own / have owned multiple M77s & 700s in various calibers. I have had some problems with the M77s but no problems with any of my 700s.All my Remingtons have consistently shot 1 1/2" or better with selected hunting loads.If you are open to other rifle manufacturers I would suggest you look at the Tikka T3 lite, Browning A-bolt, Weatherby Vanguards or Savage.

TCB in TN
November 11, 2008, 09:32 AM
Best shooting rifle I have ever owned was a Ruger 77 in .270. Was not uncommon to shoot 1/2 - 3/4 MOA with factory ammo in good weather. Best group was a 1/2 inch single hole 3 shot group at 200yards. Now it had been worked on, and had a great trigger, I have also owned a couple of 77s that were not as good, but all have been decent shooters. I have also had very good luck with the Remmington 700. As has already been mentioned they are typically more accurate right outta the box and you really can't go wrong with them either.

I agree that they Ruger is the better looking rifle and I wish that I had never let my old .270 go.

I also had the Vanguard, Savage, and Mossberg and they were decent to good shooters. The old Browning 30-06 I had was an excellent shooter, but costs quite a bit more.

Reid73
November 11, 2008, 09:34 AM
The Remington 7mm round is not a favorite of mine either. The 7mm takes a "small caliber, high velocity" approach. This can result in overpenetration and not enough kinetic energy transferred to the target. I have heard of .308 rounds completely knocking a deer off its feet, but the 7mm may blow through completely resulting in a long chase. It all depends on what you're planning to hunt.I would say: it all depends upon accurate shot placement and appropriate bullet selection.

Ninja said that his rifle will be either a .308 or a .30-06. How did the 7mm Magnum become an issue? :confused:

SlamFire1
November 11, 2008, 10:35 AM
You mean with the 105 year old Mauser design?

Ruger actions are plenty smooth, but I'll stop short of giving them credit for it's creation.

The M98 Mauser is the best (over all) bolt action ever designed. Unfortunately it is too expensive to manufacture for todays' market. In 1948 Remington released the M721, which put an affordable to make, but excellent and safe design into the American market. The M700 is the descendent of the M721.

The Ruger action uses features of the M98, but not many. Bill Ruger wanted a claw extractor, so it has a claw extractor. The M77 Ruger is a new design.

jbech123
November 11, 2008, 10:49 AM
Horsemany...First off, if your handle here is true, and you have many horses, I feel for you. My wife has one and the thing is a constant moneypit!
Shawnee...just to clarify, I wasn't implying the bolt came open by itself, what seems to happen is it catches on something and since the remmy doesn't lock like the ruger, it can get pulled open.
OK so to the issue at hand...I didn't realize I was in the minority on this remington bolt coming open deal. I remember it happening to me a few times on an alaska trip a few years back, but not quite as much as on my recent hunt. This hunt it just seemed to happen alot. I am actually a huge remington fan and own more of them than any other rifle. When I'm sitting on stand or traversing more open terrain I never have an issue. After seeing everyone's comments that this is really something other people rarely if ever have happen, I gave it some more thought. The only thing I came up with was although the hunts where this happened alot were in thicker country, they were also "bring everything you need for a week on your back" hunts, so I was wearing my frame pack. Maybe wearing that pack puts my rifle in a position on my shoulder that makes the bolt more likely to catch on things? With a ruger, this would not have mattered. In any event, I was not trying to rail on remington's, just passing on something I had experienced. I really like remington's, since I currently own 2 that shoot in the .4's that are bone stock except a trigger job.
and as far as this...
Also, this Rumor of M700's bolts opening while hiking through the brush is just that.
well you don't know me so I it is your choice if you want to think I'm the type of person with nothing better to do than make up internet rumors about remington bolts coming open on a wilderness hunt. I guess there is nothing I can do to change your mind over the internet. I have no axe to grind with either company and think they both put out a fantastic hunting grade rifle for less than $600.

ArmedBear
November 11, 2008, 10:52 AM
I actually like the ability to unload the rifle with the safety engaged.

That's what a 3-position safety is for.

IndianaBoy
November 11, 2008, 11:05 AM
I would have to lean towards the Ruger.


I have the Varmint profile barrel in 220 Swift, and it is indeed a shooter! I haven't done much load development for it because everything I have loaded will shoot within an inch at 100 yards. I am not a benchrest shooter so that is more than good enough for me.

Love that claw extractor. I wish my Winchester 30-06 (push feed) was a Ruger. Ruger actions function in a very positive manner. By that I mean it controls the cartridge very well.

I like the integral bases and Ruger rings too.

bpl
November 11, 2008, 12:49 PM
Just so that Jbeck123 does not feel so isolated, I will admit that the bolt on my m700 has been pulled open while hunting, and on more than one occasion. It has happened to other people I know as well. If you are carrying a m700 on your shoulder, and a branch of sufficient size or something else catches on the bolt, its gonna flip up the bolt handle, simple physics. This is my only complaint about the m700. Otherwise I love it!

BPL

jmr40
November 11, 2008, 01:59 PM
I own and like both. The older Remingtons were more accurate than older Rugers, but with more recent guns it is a wash as far as I can tell. For a variety of reasons I would pick Ruger as the perfect all around rifle at this time.

For out of the box accuracy it is pretty hard to beat the Tikka's at any price. I like them along with my older Remingtons for pure accuracy and light weight. My Rugers may give up a tiny bit of accuracy but I would trust them to work under harsh, dirty conditions over most anything. I also think they are the best looking rifle being made today except for possibly the Winchester Featherweight.

I've hunted with Remingtons for 35 years in some pretty nasty stuff. If you are having problems with the bolt opening it is not the fault of the gun. It's operator error. Get the gun off your shoulder and hold it in 2 hands in the thick stuff and you will not have any problems.

Ridgerunner665
November 11, 2008, 02:06 PM
Of the 2 you mentioned...get the Remington and don't look back.

If you want a factory action that is THE BEST....look into the Winchester Model 70 Featherweight...these are new rifles but they have went back to the pre-64 controlled feed design.

The Winchester will cost a bit more...but if there is a factory action that stands a chance of being better than a Remington 700...it is the pre-64 Model 70 Winchester.

The only Remington I've ever owned that had problems with the bolt opening was a Remington 788...that action is not even remotely similar the 700.

WardenWolf
November 11, 2008, 02:20 PM
One thing you're seeing these days is the difference between less expensive and more expensive guns shrinking. Modern computer-controlled fabrication machines produce products to much tighter tolerances than older production methods. A gun that was considered very good in the 60's and 70's that you would have paid a premium for then can now be matched by a much cheaper product. A new Ruger will likely outshoot an old Remington, and a new $60 scope may be better than older scopes that cost hundreds of dollars. The bar has been raised, and the real question is how much you're willing to pay for an increasingly shrinking difference.

Horsemany
November 11, 2008, 02:54 PM
jbech123

Horseman is a nickname given to me by a flirty 9th grade math teacher. The name stuck and someone already had Horseman so I added the Y. I don't currently own horses.

I don't doubt what you say about your bolt opening. I don't mean to call anyone here a liar. I can only say I believe those occurences to be the exception rather than the rule after 20+ years of hunting with 700's. 700 bolts actually have stiffer pressure to lift the bolt than most other bolts I've used or owned(I've owned almost every major mfg). It seems the gun would have to take quite a hit to jar the bolt open. I hunted some of the nastiest terrain I've ever seen growing up in WI. I'm talking 7' tall brush you had to walk 45deg. into to push through and I never had a 700 open up on me.

To those of us challenged to keep the bolt protected on a 700 I'd suggest don't try bowhunting. I haven't had problems with 700's but I have been confused about what position the safety was on a Ruger when the adrenaline kicks in. I've also seen my brother use the middle position for the safety and basically use it as a 2 position safety to keep it simple. I'm not a fan of 3 P.O.S. safeties.

Horsemany
November 11, 2008, 02:58 PM
The Ruger action uses features of the M98, but not many. Bill Ruger wanted a claw extractor, so it has a claw extractor. The M77 Ruger is a new design.

The M77 is one of the truest copies of the Mauser design being made today IMO. I consider this the Rugers' best quality. Even the bolt release is a copy.

Float Pilot
November 11, 2008, 06:01 PM
POINTS:

1.
I have an Original M-77 Ruger which seems to be a controlled at first glance but it is not. The originals were a push feed with a claw extractor and a tang mounted thumb safety. You can cycle rounds through the chamber with the safety on. But this only blocks the trigger. NOT A MAUSER but they were pretty smooth.

2.
I have a Ruger M77 MKII as well. In the MKII configuration they made it into a real controlled feed. Somewhat closer to a Mauser EXCEPT, the 3 position safety which appears to be bolt mounted is not. It is actually part of the receiver /trigger assembly. It only locks the firing pin in the 3rd bolt lock position. But you can cycle rounds into and out of the chamber with the firearm on safe. But the safety, not being part of the bolt can get moved in the wrong position.
They are somewhat rough and need a lot of work to make them as smooth as they could be. I have had to polish the feed ramp on numerous stainless MKIIs. Cartridge COL can be a problem with them at times. That is because they are made from cast parts. I am done spending money and then a bunch more time and money to make Rugers feed and shoot like they should.

3. I have 3 Remington M-700s. They are a push feed but very smooth. Their fit and finish is superior. Their safeties leave much to be desired, but they are more positive than some other side mounted safeties.


4. Winchester M-70 CF, Dakota, Kimber, Montana. Basically improved Mausers wth a 3 position saftety mounted on the bolt cocking piece. This safety blocks the firing pin from moving while in the safe or safe /bolt lock positions.

5. CZ, Parker Hale, Charles Daley, Later (1950s) Model Husqvarna's ect: These are basically Mauser actions with a side mounted trigger safety instead of the bolt mounted Mauser safety. Why they took the best hunting rifle in the world and did that is a puzzlement. The side mounted safety may be faster and possibly more quite...

SwampWolf
November 12, 2008, 04:50 PM
Besides, you can get an aftermarket 3-position safety AFAIK.

The question to me is, why, on rifles that Remington is charging a pretty penny for these days, should you have to spend extra money to get a feature that every other rifle includes from the factory (not to mention that Remington warranty service is known for returning everything to "factory condition" including replacing 'smited triggers, etc.)?

You're exactly right, Armed Bear. What advantage does a two-position safety (one that does not lock the bolt down when on "safe") have over a three position safety? Rhetorical question. Answer: none. What advantage does a three position safety have over the aforementioned two-position safety? Again, rhetorical question. Answer: The bolt stays locked when on "safe". So, as you asked, why pay extra for a feature found standard on most other bolt-action rifles, including even the modestly-priced Savage, which has had a three-position safety since its inception way back in 1958?

The original Remington 700's two-position safety locked when on "safe" and were that way until the lawyers intervened somewhere in the mid-eighties. So now you can unload a 700 while the safety is in the "on" position. That way, you can't shoot somebody while unloading your rifle.:rolleyes:

And, yes, I've had a litigation-minded, two-position safety become unlocked while hunting and I wasn't chopping firewood with it at the time. :cuss:

ggarfield965
November 12, 2008, 07:07 PM
How about do what I do, flip a coin and do the exact opposite of what the coin says :P Hopefully, you are the kind of hunter that worries more about the skill and less about your gun. Both guns are nice IMO, a Vanguard or a Model 70 is nice too. I would seriously consider the new savages for their accu-trigger, and would bet they shoot pretty straight too. Don't rule out the Mossberg 100 ATRs either. Oh, and I would vote .308, it's a swell cartridge. BTW, I hate when you can't open the bolt with the safety on when you want to pull out a round for crossing a fence/etc. Still, not a deciding factor either way for me.

oregonhunter
November 12, 2008, 07:25 PM
Pick yourself up a model 70, you'll come out with a better rifle than either the ruger or the rem.

Reid73
November 12, 2008, 10:02 PM
Float Pilot: We can hear you! No need to shout! :eek:

isitdeadyet
November 13, 2008, 06:08 AM
I use a Rem 700 pss to hunt with and target very acurate out of the box. I am not pleased with the cheap material used in the trigger guard and floor plate assembly. They should use solid steel. I'm Looking for a replacement product that will drop in, most items require new stock and fitting. I may go ruger next for my son.

Horsemany
November 13, 2008, 08:41 AM
I use a Rem 700 pss to hunt with and target very acurate out of the box. I am not pleased with the cheap material used in the trigger guard and floor plate assembly. They should use solid steel. I'm Looking for a replacement product that will drop in, most items require new stock and fitting. I may go ruger next for my son.
Yesterday 11:02 PM

The trigger guard is steel on the Ruger but the floorplate is aluminum on the MK II. The new Hawkeye's have steel floorplates with a gaudy gold Ruger stencil on it. The Ruger design is also 2 piece instead of 1. If you want better bottom metal for the Remington the Callahan version works well and you don't need a new stock. It may require a little inletting to work though.

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