bringing an ak-47 to new jersey (i know, i know...)


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turnyourback
November 10, 2008, 08:23 PM
from vermont, where it was legally purchased... is this illegal? i don't necessarily want to do this nor do i see much of a need to, but if i ever leave vermont and go back home i want to know if i can bring my gun[s].

i think new jersey has/had a state-wide assault weapons ban, but i'm having difficulty finding out if a. it has expired and b. if it applies to (legally purchased) guns brought into the state from another state.

thank you!

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everallm
November 10, 2008, 09:04 PM
1. No it hasn't expired
2. Yes they remain illegal to bring in

Highland Ranger
November 10, 2008, 09:24 PM
we should probably write a primer on it . . . . I don't have the text handy - I'll try to post tomorrow.

I do own a Saiga in 308 legally purchased and legal in NJ.

everallm
November 10, 2008, 10:55 PM
This is the NJ evil banned firearm list and a link.

Weapons are banned by name so a Saiga gets in.

No magazines over 15 rounds in capacity

The law as written is asinine, whilst not explicitly illegal to bring the firearm in, if it is a "legal" weapon, It's illegal to own it without a Firearms ID Card........

Link to the NJ state police site for the forms you need to fill in to get permission to be issues a FID.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/firearms.html


http://www.njguns.com/laws.htm

w. "Assault firearm" means:

(1) The following firearms:

Algimec AGM1 type
Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"
Armalite AR-180 type
Australian Automatic Arms SAR
Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms
Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms
Bushmaster Assault Rifle
Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900
CETME G3
Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type
Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series
Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types
Demro TAC-1 carbine type
Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types
FAMAS MAS223 types
FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms
Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns
G3SA type
Galil type Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms
M1 carbine type
M14S type
MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9mm carbine type firearms
PJK M-68 carbine type
Plainfield Machine Company Carbine
Ruger K-Mini-14/5F and Mini-14/5RF
SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types
SKS with detachable magazine type
Spectre Auto carbine type
Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type
Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types
Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms
USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun
Uzi type semi-automatic firearms
Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms
Weaver Arm Nighthawk.

(2) Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed above.

(3) A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a pistol grip, or a folding stock.

(4) A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds.

(5) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

x. "Semi-automatic" means a firearm which fires a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger and is self-reloading or automatically chambers a round, cartridge, or bullet.

y. "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

z. "Pistol grip" means a well-defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand.

GRIZ22
November 10, 2008, 11:30 PM
The law as written is asinine, whilst not explicitly illegal to bring the firearm in, if it is a "legal" weapon, It's illegal to own it without a Firearms ID Card........

This is not the whole story. You don't need a FID card if you move back and don't intend on taking the guns out of your house. If you move back get one.

Unless your AK is one of those made to only accept 10 rd magazines it's illegal and there is no way to make it legal.

You need to go thru the FAQ on the NJSP website to get all the answers.

turnyourback
November 11, 2008, 01:53 AM
ugh. this is so confusing. i should probably just find a place to store it in vermont (if i have to) rather than have to deal with this mess!

Tom488
November 11, 2008, 03:48 AM
<sigh>

If it's a true AK-47, then obviously no. If it's some other type (Romanian WASR, for example), then it would be legal IF: it does not have a folding or collapsible stock, has no bayonet lug, has no flash suppressor (muzzle brake is OK if permanently attached), and all magazines are < 15 round capacity. If the word "Kalashnikov" appears anywhere on the receiver, forget it. And, it should go without saying, we're only talking semi-auto here. If the rifle comes with a form 4, ain't no way in hell it's ever coming in to this state.

There's no requirement to "neuter" a rifle to ONLY accept 10-round magazines... if that were true, every AR-15 style rifle would be illegal. You just can't possess the >15 round magazines themselves (under ANY circumstances).

Correct about the FID - while one law (2C:39-5) says it's illegal to possess a rifle without possessing an FID, the very next law (2C:39-6e) says that doesn't apply to possession in your home/on your property. 2C:39-6f also says it doesn't apply if you're transporting said rifle to your home while moving - provided the rifle is unloaded, and either locked in the trunk or locked in a case, with ammunition (if any) stored separately.

Let's see - what else.... oh yeah! Welcome to NJ! :D

Highland Ranger
November 11, 2008, 08:07 AM
In seeing all the information, some conflicting, perhaps the best advice is to join the anjrpc.org (association of NJ rifle and pistol clubs) - I believe a member benefit is basic legal counsel on firearms laws - see here (http://www.anjrpc.org/NJFirearmsLaws.htm).

I have a copy of the Nappen book they reference on the page - good buy, but at this point a few years old and also out of print. If you can get a copy somewhere, might serve as a good refresher about NJ's absolutely insane gun laws.

Fun fact: hollow point "cop killer" bullets are illegal. NOT the cartridge itself, just the bullet. So if you're a reloader and have a bullet knocking around your trunk, or if you shot some at the range and one fell out of the bag, you committed a felony.

Fun fact: any 15 round magazine for anything, regardless of when it was purchased or where or whether or not you even own the gun it belongs to is illegal. Only the police in NJ can have "high capacity assault weapons".


I second the welcome to NJ!

Tom488
November 11, 2008, 09:57 AM
Fun fact: any 15 round magazine for anything, regardless of when it was purchased or where or whether or not you even own the gun it belongs to is illegal.
What was that about conflicting information? :)

15- round magazines are legal. Anything over that is potential jail time.

turnyourback
November 11, 2008, 10:27 AM
If it's a true AK-47, then obviously no. If it's some other type (Romanian WASR, for example), then it would be legal IF: it does not have a folding or collapsible stock, has no bayonet lug, has no flash suppressor (muzzle brake is OK if permanently attached), and all magazines are < 15 round capacity. If the word "Kalashnikov" appears anywhere on the receiver, forget it. And, it should go without saying, we're only talking semi-auto here. If the rifle comes with a form 4, ain't no way in hell it's ever coming in to this state.


thanks... this is really helpful. it is a wasr-10 without a folding/collapsible stock, bayonet lug, or flash suppressor. the strange thing is although it seems to be nj-legal by those standards, the site i ordered it from (gun broker) says they don't ship them to nj. hm. oh well... thanks for all your help!

everallm
November 11, 2008, 11:41 AM
Not the Hollow Point thing again..........

HP's ARE LEGAL TO BUY, OWN AND SHOOT IN NEW JERSEY !!!!!

The USE of a HP in a crime is a charge multiplier

You can buy, reload, shoot, mount on a wall plaque at home etc etc.

It is legal to carry a HP round, even if without a weapon, when

You are at home
At a range or other legal place to shoot
On the way directly to or from a place of purchase or place to legally shoot
In transit from a state of legal ownership to another state of legal ownership

If however you have a loose HP round in your pocket or your car, even of without a firearm, when you are not in one of the above, then the police CAN arrest you.

jaholder1971
November 11, 2008, 11:46 AM
OK, riddle me this?: Why do you want to move there???

Highland Ranger
November 11, 2008, 12:09 PM
Tom - yes correct 15 round ok, 16 and up illegal, my bad.

Re Hollow points - yes, clarification is correct; on an operating level I just don't buy them, too easy to drop one in the truck when going to and from the range and not worth the hassle.

Did I make the point regarding contacting anjrpc with my additional screw ups!

offthepaper
November 11, 2008, 01:19 PM
More than likely everyone better brace themselves for even more of this in the coming years.:barf:
Not trying to be political with that statement, just realistic.:cuss:

Tom488
November 11, 2008, 02:40 PM
on an operating level I just don't buy them, too easy to drop one in the truck when going to and from the range and not worth the hassle.
Sad but true. Imagine this horror: you snag a few boxes of Federal bulk pack .22LR from Wallyworld while you're out and about in Free America (ie. PA). One box accidentally opens up and spills in the back seat. You THINK you've collected all of them, but you're not about to count 525 rounds.

Fast-forward two or three weeks.... the wife is out driving the vehicle, and gets stopped. She does not possess an FID card. Officer asks for permission to search - which she grants, because she thinks she has no choice. Officer finds a .22LR HP round. She's in the shxx for possession of hollow-nose bullet, AND for possession of handgun ammunition without FID or handgun purchase permit (new law as of April).

Phone rings... honey, I need bail money, and a good lawyer. But hey, at least it's another dangerous criminal off our streets, right?

Highland Ranger
November 11, 2008, 05:25 PM
That's exactly why I just don't buy them. This way there can't possibly be a mix up. Sorry to hear it happened to you and I hope it works out as it should.

I re-upped my NRA membership because I see worse coming, but somehow, we've just been abandoned here in NJ . . . . .

Torghn
November 11, 2008, 09:29 PM
(4) A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds.

So my .22lr Marlin that holds 19 rounds in tube mag is illegal there?

Highland Ranger
November 11, 2008, 09:31 PM
Yes. It is an assault weapon.

(I know, for squirrels - but in PRNJ, illegal.)

Tom488
November 11, 2008, 10:49 PM
So my .22lr Marlin that holds 19 rounds in tube mag is illegal there?
Is it a semi-auto? If so, then yup. Do a Google search for "Joseph Pelleteri", to read about someone who was convicted of possessing an assault weapon for having a Marlin 60 w/ 17-round magazine.

In the end, he was sentenced to probation, but forever lost his 2A rights - which is exactly what the state was after. 1 down, 80 million to go.

Oh, and Highland - nothing happened to me... that was just a hypothetical example to show how our fouled-up laws can turn ordinary people into felons.

turnyourback
November 11, 2008, 11:11 PM
OK, riddle me this?: Why do you want to move there???

i'm not moving there. i was born there and have lived there all my life -- i currently live in vermont for school, but am just thinking about what i'm going to do with my AK if i ever go back to jersey for an extended period of time.

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