7.62x39 AR 15 Suggestions???


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orangeninja
November 10, 2008, 07:24 PM
Hey guys. I'm looking at the possibility of building an AR 15 in 7.62x39 and so far I am considering DTI (Del-Ton) for the Upper. I don't care about magazine capacity, I understand there are plenty of reliable 10 rounders available so that's cool with me. What I do care about is this:

1.) It must shoot cheap steel cased 7.62x39 reliably, like Wolf brand ammo.
2.) It must be at least as accurate as 2 inch groups or so at 100 yards. I understand that a different brand of ammo may be more accurate which is cool.

That's about it. I plan on plinking with cheap ammo (Wolf) and hunting with the more accurate ammo (Remmington or some other hunting round). Any recommendations? Experiences? Etc?

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rbernie
November 10, 2008, 07:51 PM
My DelTon barrel will not shoot steel cased ammo; it will not extract properly. My Model1Sales 16" upper was more forgiving, but still not 100% with it, and again it was an extraction issue. I have a replacement extractor o-ring and insert for the DelTon unit, to see if that helps.

I hunted deer and hog for years off a 16" M1S barrel in a CMG flattop upper; Steve and Justin saw it a couple of years ago when we went to NTO on a hunt. I like the round in an AR15 platform (and the MGW and CProducts mags are working well for me), but shooting the Ruskie import ammo in 'em has not worked well for me.

1832
November 10, 2008, 08:00 PM
I have a Model 1 7.62x39 20" free float upper. The only problem with most 7.62x39 uppers is that the bolts and pins don't like steel cased ammo. The hard primers on the Eastern Bloc stuff causes a lot of failure to fire. The solution is to order the Upper without the bolt & carrier and spring for an MGI Enhanced 7.62x39 Bolt. MGI designed it after consulting with Wolf Ammo. Mine has worked flawlessly since I got the MGI Bolt. It is pricey, but totally worth it.

Now, some folks have played with the bolt and pin, and/or added an extra power hammer spring and achieved reliability with steel cased ammo. It was easier for me to just buy the bolt. BTW, your regular carrier & charging handle will work with the MGI bolt.

orangeninja
November 10, 2008, 08:20 PM
So then you guys recommend the Model 1 upper with the MGI Enhanced 7.62x39 Bolt found at http://www.mgimilitary.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=25 ?

I've read some negative reviews of the Model 1 stuff but I trust the people here more than elsewhere.

1832
November 10, 2008, 10:06 PM
BTW, if you go the Model 1 route, spring for the 10.00 addition of a swivel stud on the forearm. Just in case you want to put a bipod on it or sling later on.

I know some folks pan some of the Model 1 stuff, mostly their bolts. But, when it comes to uppers its hard to beat their price combined with their quality. If you check some of the posts over at ar15.com, you'll see some surprising groups with Model 1's 7.62x39 uppers, even with the steel cased ammo. FWIW, mine seems to like Barnaul the best with Silver Bear next in accuracy.

rbernie
November 10, 2008, 10:07 PM
M1S tends to buy from the cheapest places, and sometimes that meant that they got parts that were not quite in spec. That seems to have been more of a past issue than a present issue, especially as the market for AR parts has matured in the last four years since the expiration of the ban.

Specific to the 7.62x39 upper, there is little that they can muck up. They use Shaw barrels, which are solid performers. I have no experience with the MGI BCG, but the M1S 7.62x39 upper is fine. I recommend their $35 float tube with swivel upgrade, and I recommend the flattop upper receiver with low profile gas block. That combo is very versatile for hunting and plinking.

R.W.Dale
November 11, 2008, 06:43 AM
I overcame the ignition issue with wolf ammo in my 20" Model 1 upper simply by extending the firing pin protrusion by .007"

The only ammo it won't shoot is Wolf Military classic, However Polyformance wolf and barnhaul function 100%. Thus far I've been very impressed with this upper aside from the aforementioned firing pin adjustment the thing as ran and ran right from round one

see my thread in the hunting forum for my results in the field using this upper

navajo
November 11, 2008, 08:24 AM
You folks do know that Armalite is now making one in 7.62X39 don't you?
Its in the catalog, no idea when it will be released.

tkcomer
November 11, 2008, 09:12 AM
I've never shot Wolf through my Model 1 upper, but have shot a lot of steel cased com block ammo through it. Both lacquer and copper washed. I decided to use the MGI bolt in mine along with the C Products 10 round mags. Totally reliable so far. Here's some picks of it: http://www.pixagogo.com/4825444121 Click on a pic to make it bigger, then click on original at the top to blow it up.

SnakeLogan
November 11, 2008, 02:22 PM
You folks do know that Armalite is now making one in 7.62X39 don't you?
Its in the catalog, no idea when it will be released.

Any idea what mags they'll be using?

orangeninja
November 11, 2008, 03:11 PM
tkcomer, that is a sweet looking rifle. That bottom right target with the shoot&see stickers, what distance was that and with what round?

tkcomer
November 11, 2008, 03:18 PM
The first three targets were at 100 yards. First day out with the gun testing some com block ammo and Winchester White Box ammo. The bottom right is only 50 yards. I was testing some handloads but it was kinda windy. You can't see it, but there's a building to the right that kinda blocks the wind and keeps my targets from blowing off the box. Sometimes.

rbernie
November 11, 2008, 03:26 PM
I overcame the ignition issue with wolf ammo in my 20" Model 1 upper simply by extending the firing pin protrusion by .007"
How did you accomplish this?

R.W.Dale
November 11, 2008, 03:34 PM
chuck the firing pin into a drill press front up

using a file shave .007" off the flange on the firing pin that contacts the rear of the bolt.

check protrusion to verify it's increased by .007" if it has you're done!

IF NOT as my did

chuck the rear firing pin into a drill

apply some lapping compound to the shoulder on the pin just aft where it passes through the bolt face

take your bolt and run the firing pin into it with the drill cleaning checking and reapplying the lapping compound if required till your protrusion finally increases by .007

clean throughly, reassemble, shoot and rejoice

The problem isn't so much the hardness of the primers but the fact that that their recessed. After extending the pin protrusion if you still have ignition issues a wolf extra power hammer spring is in order.

tkcomer
November 11, 2008, 03:37 PM
On the firing pin, you'll see what I call the shoulder. On the firing pin side of that shoulder, you take a file and spin the pin, removing .007" of material. That allows the firing pin to extend a little further out of the bolt head and light off those hard to fire Wolf rounds. Some people file a little on the back of the bolt to do the same thing. Your basically letting the firing pin protrude from the bolt a little further to strike the primer harder. One word of caution, if you take too much off, the firing pin will pierce the primers. I took the lazy man's way out and bought the MGI bolt and firing pin.

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