[Agent-J]

Looking for a CCW system and wondering what the most effective barrel length is. Thanks!

[Lou22]

The .45 auto with the shortest barrel I'm aware of is the AMT Backup. It is 2 1/2 inches.They aren't made anymore. They were compact but all steel so heavy for their size. I've never handled one but heard they have very heavy trigger pulls. Probably not the best for concealed carry - there are several sub-compact autos out there that are better.

Lou

[Agent-J]

I'm not necessarily looking for the shortest one possible. I'd like to know what the best size is given trade-offs and reliability.

[Jim Watson]

I am confident down to a Commander 4.25" in general. But I have a modified OACP 3.625" and a tuned SA UC 3.5" that I trust because I have shot the individual guns.

[The Bushmaster]

Kimber for one in either 3, 4 or 5" configuration. Reliable and very accurate...

[Ed4032]

Kahr PM45

[senior]

RIA OFFICER 3 1/2 tactical

[DHart]

.45acp was designed specifically for a 5" barrel. This is the barrel length where you will get the best ballistic performance and typically the best reliability. Dropping down to 4" to 4.25" you don't lose much in terms of ballistics nor reliability. This is where I draw the line for myself. If you're looking for a smallish 1911 for carry, the Commander size with a bobtail is the sweetest choice, in my view. You get a compact gun which still takes full size mags and retains excellent ballistics and reliability.

Plenty of folks will chime in about their 3" 1911's that run reliably, but of all the 1911 sizes, these are the least reliable overall and .45acp ballistics from a 3" barrel are comparatively poor when compared to the 5" or 4.25".

If you want to go with a 3" barrel, choose .40 and 9mm; these are much better calibers in such a short barrel... they suffer less of a performance hit when fired from short barrels than .45acp does.

[Sport45]

How does the XD45 4" stack up for carry? Is it too bulky? Is the barrel too short to expect 230gr Golden Sabers to expand?

[BikerRN]

I'm not necessarily looking for the shortest one possible. I'd like to know what the best size is given trade-offs and reliability.

For the 1911 I'd go with a 5" version, given those parameters.

I carry a Springfield Loaded Model, 5", and my next 1911 will be a 5" one too, but either a "lightweight" or one with a Rail. I just haven't decided yet, but probably the railed version.

.45acp was designed specifically for a 5" barrel. This is the barrel length where you will get the best ballistic performance and typically the best reliability. Dropping down to 4" to 4.25" you don't lose much in terms of ballistics nor reliability. This is where I draw the line for myself. If you're looking for a smallish 1911 for carry, the Commander size with a bobtail is the sweetest choice, in my view. You get a compact gun which still takes full size mags and retains excellent ballistics and reliability.

Plenty of folks will chime in about their 3" 1911's that run reliably, but of all the 1911 sizes, these are the least reliable overall and .45acp ballistics from a 3" barrel are comparatively poor when compared to the 5" or 4.25".

If you want to go with a 3" barrel, choose .40 and 9mm; these are much better calibers in such a short barrel... they suffer less of a performance hit when fired from short barrels than .45acp does.

DHART nailed it. Ther's not much more to add, but since I find the barrel is not the hard part to hide, it's the frame, I'll stick with the original, in the 1911 thank you. :)

BikerRN

[ugaarguy]

If a revolver using moon clips counts the S&W 325 PC would fit the niche. Looks like this 327 PC, but in .45 ACP. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=14810&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15714

[CPshooter]

I'm still skeptical on whether or not the .45 is even a good man stopper in sub-4" barrels. The ballistics of the .45 look good when shot from a 5" barrel, but I start to doubt the round in anything shorter than 4".

I wish someone would do some good ballistic testing using a 3" officers 1911 and common JHP rounds. Maybe even a 3.5" barrel. I'd like to see the expansion and penetration results for several common .45 JHP rounds in 185gr, 200gr, and 230gr out of this short of a barrel.

I've been considering .45acp for a single-stack CCW. I've been looking at the Kahr P45, but can't justify buying it without knowing what kind of ballistic performance it will offer.

[Mad Magyar]

But I have a modified OACP 3.625"
Now we're talking....At least someone got the barrel size correct. The fact that so many pistoleros have Officer's model that function so well doesn't add much credence to the 4 1/4" cut-off in terms of reliability.
In the past, Tuner has offered some strong opinions that the Commander size was as far as he'd go for reliability. However, I don't see Colt putting out weapons of this sort w/o extensive testing of slide/spring velocity ratios, etc. IMHO....:)

[The Bushmaster]

DHart...Not necessarily true. It is true that Mr. Browning originally designed the 1911 with a 5" barrel to get the 850 +/- fps, but todays modern powders and bullets can get the same fps from shorter barrels as in yester year with longer barrels. I own a Kimber (UCC II) with what they call a 3" barrel, but only 2" are rifled. I'm pushing 185 grain bullets to 895 fps and pushing 230 grainers at 820 fps. Accuracy at 25 yards is 5 rounds inside 3"...Times have changed and Mr. Browning's baby has been yanked into modern times with great success...And reliability? It's hard to beat this Kimber. I would and do trust it with my life. It's my concealed carry piece. By The Way...This Kimber will take Colt magazines. That means of any length. They do, however, tend to stick out a bit...

Oh...And I do have a Colt 1911 full sized .45 ACP also, and I would trust my life with it too if I could hide it on my person. I'm a little skinny guy...:evil:

CPshooter. Using a modern quality self defence round you should have no problem stopping the bad guy with the shorter .45 ACPs. The only "best" man stopper is the .357 magnum from a 4" barrel. Even the short barreled .357 magnums when loaded with good self defence rounds are impressive. My 2 1/2" combat magnum is spitting out a 140 grain bullet at almost 1150 fps.

There are a lot of people out there that swear by .380s and smaller. Not to mention all the 9mm X 19s used in self defence. What has made these small caliber and short barreld guns so popular these days? Two things. The many CCW people out there and the modern ammunition manufactured for just that purpose. Several of the ammunition manufactruers are now selling ammunition designed specificly for short barreled weapons.

[ezypikns]

that generally, the shorter the barrel length, the shorter the sight radius. Whatever error make when you pull the trigger on a weapon with a 3" barrel is magnified versus say, a 5" barrel. I'm not saying that you can't acheive excellent accuracy using a short barreled weapon, just that you may need to practice a bit more to get the same results you might expect from a 5".

[S&Wfan]

If you are looking for a gun that's totally reliable when your life is on the line, is accurate, and you want a short barreled .45ACP (a smart option BTW) . . .

. . . check out the 3" barreled S&W 625 REVOLVER.

I've got an older (1980) chopped barrel S&W 25-2 (very popular option back "in the day" before S&W got smart and made what we wnated) with a 3 1/4" barrel. It has never failed me in thousands of rounds fired . . . and the bullets go into one very "boringly small" hole!;)

It is the very last gun I'd ever get rid of!

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/246/246167/folders/233364/20707202X.45acp.jpg

BTW, I also have a 1st generation Kimber Ultra CDP w/ 3" barrel . . . totally reliable SO FAR with full power defensive ammo. However, if trouble comes . . . I'll be grabbing the 25-2 . . . I've already had that happen, and had both guns side by side . . . and there was no hesitation at all to go to the big Smith revolver!

[Kind of Blued]

I think, for carry, Springfield knocked the ball out of the park with their XD45 compacts.

You can get a 5" .45 with a compact grip. That's pretty much unheard of, but makes complete sense for carry, where grip length is the main factor (IMO, next to width) in concealability.

Barrel length, in my mind, doesn't affect concealability AT ALL as long as it isn't more than 5 inches, and is carried IWB. I wish more people made Gov't-sized lightweight 1911s. :(

[parisite]

I have a 5-shot 2'' snubbie revolver chambered in 45acp and it exceeds all my expectations.

It is another one Taurus decided to discontinue.

[BlindJustice]

A few things that haven't been mentioned:


1911 Sizes using Colt Naming
1911
Full Size 1911 5" Bbl.
MId-1950s
Commander 4.25 Bbl. same grip/frame height at
5.5" & both have a similiar GI Recoil spring plug & guide
Mid-197Os
Officers Model 3.5" Bbl. with a shortened to 4.75" height
grip/frame.- these use dual recoil springs with a captive guide
rod.

& Colt also came out with
Concealed Carry Officers Model aka CCO
Commander length 4.25" Bbl./Slide
on an Officers frame - longer sight radius/ballistics
and simpler Gi plug/guide rod. It can be carried
with the standard 6 rd short mag. or the standard mag
will also fit and work it just sticks out of the bottom of
the weapon.

So, Colt CCO, get some Wilson Combat 7 rd short mags
and carry a full size 8 rd mag or two for spares/reloads.

Randall

[Drail]

In a revolver as short as you want. In a 1911 platform going below 4 in. is asking for problems. I know lots of folks have Officer's ACPs which they believe are 100% reliable but I have seen more of those choke than run perfectly. Trying to get one with a problem to run right can drive you crazy. I have had several people bring them to me saying they feed fire and eject 100% of the time but they usually throw empties in your face and nothing we tried would cure the problem. They usually end up selling it. I think the the whole concept of the Officer's ACP was goofy idea anyway. How many Generals are going to find themselves in a situation where they really need a sidearm. I am reminded of the line from "We were soldiers once" where the top Sgt. claimed that if things got so bad he needed a weapon there will be plenty of them laying around.

[The Bushmaster]

Hummmm...Sure wish I could get this Kimber UCC II to drop the empty cases at my feet like My full sized Colt 1911 does...Damned thing launches them into space making it hard to recover them to reload...

As far as firearm failures go with this "short barreled" .45 ACP...I couldn't be happier. After the initial 300 rounds no problems and I have put over 1,000 rounds through it. That's over 700 rounds past the last failure to go to battery. Changing from AA #7 to WSF solved that problem...

[jad0110]

Barrel length, in my mind, doesn't affect concealability AT ALL as long as it isn't more than 5 inches, and is carried IWB.

Agreed. I frequently carry a 5" 1911 in the summer with shorts and a short sleeve untucked shirt with no problems whatsoever. I can tell though that anything longer than that in an auto would make sitting uncomfortable. 4" in a revolver is probably the upper limit.

More of a concern for IWB is the size (thickness and height) and shape of the grip. In that regard, it might well be easier for some folks to conceal a 5" 1911 or full sized revolver (given the stocks aren't too bulky) than a compact Glock, XD or other thick doublestack auto.

[dmazur]

+1 for Commander-sized.

I have two Commanders. Only one, a 1972 vintage, required any work and that was because it was made before there was concern about reliably feeding hollow points. The factory feed ramp was rough enough to shave copper, and it badly needed to be throated. The other, a 1991A1, was fine out of the box.

I really had to fight an Officer's Model to get it reliable. The Colt quality was present in everything but the magazines and the recoil system, which had a "tab" that was prone to breaking. McCormick magazines and an Ed Brown "reverse plug" recoil system fixed the problems.

So, while I have an Officer's Model, I can't recommend that size for out of the box reliability.

[LKB3rd]

I have an xd45 compact 4" that conceals fine and works great. Never had a failure of any kind in probably 2000 rounds that I have shot through it.
The cool thing about the xd compact model is the short grip for carrying, with the full sized magazines with the grip extenders to use at the range or for home defense.