CCW question- Florida


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onebigelf
November 11, 2008, 10:01 AM
Settle this one if you can-

A friend of mine works as a nurse at the local university teaching hospital. The hospital forbids employees from carrying at work, the hospital and the university forbid employees from having a gun in their car parked at the hospital as the garage is university property. According to the instructor at the CCW class I had to take last weekend because the state wouldn't accept my DD-214 (grrrr), you CAN have a gun in your car at facilities where you can't carry as long as you a) don't take it inside, and b) aren't reporting for work. In other words, if my friend is going to work she can't have her gun in the car. If she's taking her son to the ER they can't Kvetch. (see I CAN learn to edit for language!) She says, no, as an employee she can't have it in her car at anytime or she risks getting fired. Opinions?

John

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jdc1244
November 11, 2008, 10:28 AM
You may have a gun in your locked car as long as you are an employee; unless thereís been a subsequent ruling I could not find non-employees many not have guns in their cars if the property owner does not want them there. In your situation she may bring a gun as an employee but not as an ER patient.

From the Jacksonville Business Journal 7/30/2008:

The Florida Retail Federation and the Florida Chamber of Commerce were partially successful in their attempt to halt implementation of a new statute referred to as the Guns at Work law.

U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle ruled that visitors and customers at a business are not allowed to bring guns onto the business's property.

However, employees of the business who have a concealed weapons permit are allowed to have guns inside their locked vehicles at work, according to the ruling.

However, your example/issue may be moot if the university hospital is consider a Ďschoolí:


From the Fowler White Boggs Law Offices web site about guns at work:

The law applies to all private and public employers except schools, jails, nuclear-power plants, employers that conduct national defense, aerospace, or homeland security operations, and employers that work with combustible or explosive materials regulated under state or federal law.

onebigelf
November 11, 2008, 10:42 AM
I believe that there is also a specific exemption for hospitals, which was interesting since a nurse walking to her car late at night was one of the examples used for why it was a good idea. Never understood how having the gun in the car was going to help but it was the example given. Also interesting that they excluded homeland security... isn't that kinda like telling a cop he can carry on duty, but not have a gun in his car? What are they afraid those people might not be all that stable?

John

jdc1244
November 11, 2008, 12:04 PM
Needless to say the whole thing is ridiculous Ė if one is licensed to carry one is licensed to carry. Period.

Most hospitals (if not all) have security staff who will escort employees at night per request; having the gun in the car is for the drive home at night in the event of a break down. That was always my issue: whatís the point of having a CCW if you could only carry weekends and nights after coming home from work. Like many once Iím home after work Iím done for the day. If I need to get something Iíll stop on the way home from work. Before the law if your employer forbade weapons on the property your CCW was almost worthless.

withdrawn34
November 11, 2008, 05:03 PM
Well if the hospital garage is on a university campus as you said then yea, no go as the rules that apply to a school campus apply there too, unfortuantely.

divemedic
November 11, 2008, 05:45 PM
There is no special rule for hospitals. Here are the laws which cover you locking a firearm in your car (790.251):
(the portions of the law pertaining to non-employees is not enforceable due to a pending court case, and the fact that the law was very poorly written)

(4) PROHIBITED ACTS.--No public or private employer may violate the constitutional rights of any customer, employee, or invitee as provided in paragraphs (a)-(e):

(a) No public or private employer may prohibit any customer, employee, or invitee from possessing any legally owned firearm when such firearm is lawfully possessed and locked inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot and when the customer, employee, or invitee is lawfully in such area.

(b) No public or private employer may violate the privacy rights of a customer, employee, or invitee by verbal or written inquiry regarding the presence of a firearm inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot or by an actual search of a private motor vehicle in a parking lot to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle. Further, no public or private employer may take any action against a customer, employee, or invitee based upon verbal or written statements of any party concerning possession of a firearm stored inside a private motor vehicle in a parking lot for lawful purposes. A search of a private motor vehicle in the parking lot of a public or private employer to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle may only be conducted by on-duty law enforcement personnel, based upon due process and must comply with constitutional protections.

Then there is this: (which is creating quite a bit of controversy- again because the law was poorly written)

(7) EXCEPTIONS.--The prohibitions in subsection (4) do not apply to:

(a) Any school property as defined and regulated under s. 790.115.

(b) Any correctional institution regulated under s. 944.47 or chapter 957.

(c) Any property where a nuclear-powered electricity generation facility is located.

(d) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which are conducted substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security.

(e) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials regulated under state or federal law, or property owned or leased by an employer who has obtained a permit required under 18 U.S.C. s. 842 to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials on such property.

(f) A motor vehicle owned, leased, or rented by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer.

(g) Any other property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which possession of a firearm or other legal product by a customer, employee, or invitee is prohibited pursuant to any federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or general law of this state.

The answer is: It depends on whether or not the hospital is considered a school or not. I would consult an attorney- this can be a sticky legal question. If this hospital is indeed considered a school, not only is it allowable for your employer to prohibit firearms in vehicles, it is also illegal to carry weapons there.

Edited to Add:

790.115 says:

3. In a vehicle pursuant to s. 790.25(5); except that school districts may adopt written and published policies that waive the exception in this subparagraph for purposes of student and campus parking privileges.

For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, vocational school, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic.

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