[KBintheSLC]

So, I am looking to buy a good fighting knife, and I am down to two options. The first is a SOG bowie knife that uses "AUS 8" steel for the blade. The other is a Ka-Bar USMC fighting knife that uses "high carbon steel" for the blade. Now I know that the AUS 8 alloy incorporates a given amount of carbon for added strength. But how do these two types of steel differ in the real world?

Thanks.

[highorder]

The KaBar is likely 1095 high carbon. It's a good steel for the application, but some will tell you that you need some superalloy.

The SOG is a great knife; the Kabar is a great shovel!

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

One is stainless (AUS 8), the other is not.

Assuming it is 1095, then it will tend to stain and rust more easily and faster under moist conditions (once the black paint wears off), but it will be tougher and hold edge better than most any stainless, including AUS 8 - it really depends on whether you need the stainless properties of the stainless steel or not. If it's gonna be wet a lot and/or you don't tend to clean & oil, then get the stainless. If you do wipe down regularly, then go with the tool steel. AUS 8 is a quality "middle of the road" stainless - pretty good, but not really "premium" - on a par with 440C.

[22-rimfire]

I'm not fond of 1095 steel. It is what machetes typically use. It is one of the reasons I have hesitated to buy a Rat RC-4. AUS8 is pretty good steel. It is hard and will hold an edge. It will seem more difficult to sharpen. Get yourself a good diamond stone. SOG blades are pretty good overall. I have a number of them in various steels.

[hso]

Properly heat treated 1095 is superior for rough use knives than AUS8.

On the other hand a "fighting knife" is not a rough use knife and AUS8 will take a good edge and you won't have to worry about it rusting.

[woodfiend]

1095 holds a better edge. Both steels have carbon, that's what steel is, iron with carbon. 1095 is a more basic steel, and will rust more readily, due to the absence or lesser content of various elements. AUS 8 is indeed a fine steel. They both will do what you need, most likely. I would go for 1095 probably, because, of edge retention and ease of sharpening.

[Valkman]

In the real world you'd be better off with a Fighter I make. :) But I'd go for the 1095 one also.

[bikerdoc]

all the differences have been covered. To see for yourself the various steels and their composition go to the steel chart at the spyderco website

[Mp7]

and rust is a good thing on a fighting knife...
as it may cause blood-poisoning in your enemy :)

(Get a Glock FM78)

[conwict]

If your enemy lives long enough to get blood poisoning, I imagine he might keep your knife as a trophy. In which case he may get on THR to post the same question: "What is meant by high-carbon steel in American Ka-bar knife?"

[highorder]

As far as corossion is concerned, I thought Kabar's were Parkerized?

Someone mentioned black paint?...

[greyling22]

I have found not all aus-8 is equal. depends on how they heat treat it etc. the fact theka-bar won't tell you what steel they are using concerns me a little. they may have well just as well said "made of metal." do some more research on the ka-bar steel and find out if you are comparing apples to apples, or apples to oranges.
that said, I have been pleased with my sog and both companies have a reputation for decent stuff. likely you will never be albe to tell the difference. get the one that you like better.

[Pizzagunner]

Most machetes are made of thin, spring tempered STAMPINGS using 1050, or other lower carbon member of the 10xx steels.

There is certainly no machete related reason to shy away from a good 1095 knife. The 1095 alloy is the one specifically formulated for working blades.

[JTW Jr.]

The 1095 alloy is the one specifically formulated for working blades.
I dont believe 1095 was formulated for knives , 1095 is mere spring steel ( works great for a knife when properly HT'd ) , I think you are thinking of S30v which was designed for the cutlery industry in 2001 by Crucible..

[Gordon]

Ummm "blood poisoning" is caused by microbes,not rust nor garlic !

[alaskanativeson]

AUS8 is a very hard steel, it's been my experience that it's much more brittle and loses it's razor edge much quicker than other steels. Even worse, once that factory edge is gone it's a monster to get back.

The Ka-Bar doesn't say what steel it uses but as has been noted here, it's 1095 high carbon steel. It's a great steel for a knife. Yes, it can rust easier than AUS8, but most of the blade has a parkerized finish and the edge can be easily cared for. Hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of soldiers have found the Ka-Bar to be reliable. Add me to that list.

[Timthinker]

If I am not being too inquisitive, may I ask about the other knives you considered for your stated purpose. Of course, nothing is wrong with your final two choices, but I am a bit curious if you considered a stout dagger design among the contenders. Some folks, though not all, consider the dagger a great fighting knife. Just my curiousity getting the better of me.


Timthinker

[hso]

The 1095 alloy is the one specifically formulated for working blades.

I dont believe 1095 was formulated for knives , 1095 is mere spring steel ( works great for a knife when properly HT'd )

JTW Jr. is correct, while 1095 makes a great blade steel (when properly heat treated) it has been around a very long time and is primarily a carbon tool/spring steel typically used for springs or cutting tools requiring sharp cutting edges such as grass or grain cutting tools.

There have been plenty of steels that have been used for blades, but very very few that were originally made just for knife making (420 HC I think being one of them and the recent batch of materials from Crucible).

[KINGMAX]

Take a look at a GLOCK Field Knife before you purchase

[KBintheSLC]

In the real world you'd be better off with a Fighter I make. But I'd go for the 1095 one also.

Valkman... those are some beautiful knives you make there. Looks like you are using premium steel as well (154CM, CPM D2). Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for a top end knife. I need something around $100 that will be "good enough".

[KBintheSLC]

If I am not being too inquisitive, may I ask about the other knives you considered for your stated purpose.

I have looked at several other SOG models... Seal's, Bowie's, Tigershark's.
and have also looked at other Ka-Bars... fighters, USMC, Army
I looked at some Dark-Ops but they cost too much.
I have also looked at Grayman and recently DL Knives, but those are also too much.
All I really need is a decent fighter knife thats not afraid of doing a little bit of work from time to time, and costs around $100.

[Zeke/PA]

If I was looking foe a fighting Knife, I wouldn't hestitate to purchase a K- Bar.
Zeke

[sm]

I'd op for a screwdriver or Old Hickory kitchen knife myself if I was into knife fights.

I do know a Case Barehead Slimline Trapper with CV blades and Shrade Old Timer Trapper with 1095 blade with the brass liner lock will stop someone from doing what they are doing.

So will a Victorinox Soldier...

Almost forgot...
SAK Spartan, Tinker and similar. Old 'Nam suggestion, since folks were not allowed personal weapons "going into town". Still a SAK was not defined as a weapon.

We are speaking of a serious situation, where folks going into town were targeted by serious enemy. Enemy including kids. Not a good idea to get a shoe-shine, while in town.

Kids, even "girls" would do snatch and grab, or hit and run, and take off on bike ( pedal or motor).

In hand with the Spartan, Tinker, similiar, with the awl opened, which is perpendicular to the knife , and between fingers, akin to a "T" handle, one has a formidable tool to get someone to quit doing what they were doing.

Back springs are stout, one has a grip on a tool, and after doing what the black and white tapes shared, and practiced in training, this tool worked as well as the Kabar, or club , the training taught.

Now don't look like prey, think like a criminal, and criminals often "shank-n-run".
Meaning, it was just a SAK, and if need, drop it and get to safe place.

Re: SAK Soldier, and GI Demo, the reamer is different than the awl. It protrudes from the end of the bolster. It is capable of doing other things besides reaming a hole, or striking a fire starter...yes indeed!

Just thoughts.

Everyone should have a SAK Soldier anyway...

[JShirley]

I'm rather curious what a "fighting knife" is to you?

People don't fight with knives. If used as weapons, they kill with them. If you're facing someone who has a knife, you should be using something else, something with reach.

John

[Zeke/PA]

I ain't into knife fighting either but the K-BAR U.S.M.C. knife is to my understanding termed a "fighting knife".

[sm]

I'm rather curious what a "fighting knife" is to you?

John, hso, and some others know I am dead serious when I share, a "fighting knife" to me includes, though not limited to:
-Single edge razor blade.
-Carton cutter , the slim one, that takes a single edge razor blade
-Small penknife, such as SAK Classic SD, Peanut, Ladybug...
-Cut nail , or any nail

Something small, easy to conceal, still accessible to fight my way out of a bad situation.
Being out numbered, overwhelmed, and being tied up. Gun, larger knives will be removed, 'hopefully' Lady Luck will show, in the criminals missing any small , concealed "edged" tools, the ability to free myself and evade.

-Cut tape, rope, that bind my hands and/or feet.
-Being able to jimmy a trunk open and exit at a stop...
-Punch hinges on a door I am locked behind to evade.

etc.

[Valkman]

I feel bad when some can't buy my knives, I really do. I have one fighter I can discount heavily because of the finish but I still can't get down to $100. Shoot. :(

[Gordon]

I was only in one knife fight. I had a 8" Randal #1 and the loser had an M-14 with a sharpened bayonet. I almost severed his arm-cut the tendons. He was not after me exclusively so I had 3 other senior NCO witnesses. Just stepped to the inside and sliced, I wasn't out to kill. If I had to do it again I'd rather have a fast handling 10 incher.
The other knife fights I was in later I won again,with a gun!

[Timthinker]

Thanks for the response about the knives you considered. I was curious if a dagger, which some consider the quintessential "fighting knife" blade design, was among your choices. Thanks again for sharing that information with us.

The related topic of what constitutes a fighting knife is one that can-and has-received encyclopedic discussion on various internet forums. One way of approaching this topic is to examine what laws have been enacted against various blade designs. While those regulations may not use the term "fighting knife" explicitly, it seems those enactments implicitly target knives the legislators view as potential fighters. With that lengthy prologue behind us, at least two knife designs fall into that category: daggers/dirks and bowies. Indeed, laws against those two knife designs have been discussed on THR and www.bladeforums.com in the past. Again, this topic is one that has received a great deal of discussion in the past. I thought I would address this issue briefly as a potential way of introducing this subject for further consideration.


Timthinker

[KBintheSLC]

People don't fight with knives. If used as weapons, they kill with them.

Well... I'm not about to get on a public forum and start asking people what knife is best for killing with. Anyway, killing someone is not my intention... is it yours?

So, the term "fighting knife" will have to suffice. After all, it is a widely accepted term, and I assume you all know what it means.

I was curious if a dagger, which some consider the quintessential "fighting knife" blade design, was among your choices.

I have thought about that, but I would prefer a single-edge blade so it can double as a working knife. I assume that a bad guy wont know the difference, and it might help limit my liabilities.

[scotjute]

Probably you'd like the k-bar best. I have several knives with 1095 steel. I prefer it for general use because of edge retention and ease of resharpening.
Also have several stainless knives. Use them where rust may be a problem. But my 1095 blades have the sharpest edges. Get them both. Buy one now, the other later. Sooner or later you'll need them.

[J. Jay]

A Dagger is a thrusting weapon and definately not suited for general purpose knife. (chopping wood, skinning game, etc.) Get a Ka-bar for $50 and a Leatherman with the other $50.