Replicate 45LC ballistics in C&B Remmy

Is it possible to replicate 45LC ballistics in a MNA Remington?
I understand that original 45LC loads were 255gr bullet over 30gr of FFFg. Which should be pretty simple to duplicate in a Remington (if only one could find bullets and be able to ram them down into the cylinder).
Has anyone tried to use this load? How were the results?

hello,

The problem is that it is very difficult to ram 250gr 45Colt bullet into the chambers. Even with soft lead cast bullet a lot of effort are necessary with possible damage on cylinder and most often bullets are not entered straightly into the chambers.

Because of deformation of bullets, results are irregular and accuracy often poor. But with 30gr of BP, recoil is real.

The other problem is that standard slow twist barrel are not optimum with long bullet and accuracy suffers.

The LEE 200gr cap and ball bullet is much easier to load and gives better accuracy

Regards

I've never tried a .452 or .454 250 - 255gr. bullet in any of my C&B revolvers but I do shoot the Lee .456 220gr. Conical in my Pietta 1858 with a 5.5" barrel & my Uberti 1858 Millenium with 30gr. FFFG Goex charge & they are noticeable but not too hateful in recoil.

General Ballistics:

Bullet = .456 220 grain Cast Lee conical bullet .138 BC.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11
5-1/2” Barrel Average Ballistics.
30gr. Volume = 702 fps. 242 ft. lbs.

8” barrel ballistics.
.456 220 grain Cast Lee conical bullet .138 BC.
30gr. Volume = 764 fps. 286 ft. Lbs.


BTW there isn't much room between the bullets nose & chamber mouth so a larger conical may not fully seat with a 30gr. charge.

Forgot to mention that with those loads they are fairly accurate but not as accurate as a .457 Ball out of th.em

The standard load of black powder load for a 45LC is 40 grs FFFG
the standard loan for a 44 S&W Special is 27grns of FFFG black and a 256grn bullet. Then again that may be the 44 Russian load and 30 grns FFFG of Black may be the load for the 44S&W

You're right the original .45 Colt loading was 40gr. FFG & a 255gr. bullet.
Approximatly 900 - 1000fps & 458 - 565ft. lbs.

The original load of the .44 S&W Russian was 27gr. FFFG & a 246gr. bullet.
Approximatly 730 - 800fps. & 290 - 349ft. lbs.

I understand that original 45LC loads were 255gr bullet over 30gr of FFFg

That's all I used in my Dragoon and ROA, don't have a converter for my Rems Yet...xlint load rather stout. Winchester cases & primers, 255gr soft lead flat nose, 30gr fffg, accurate...shot some today im my ROA jus' got the Converter for .45 Colt...bought a box of Ultramax .45 Schofield($29.99/50ea) Real nice loads very accurate 180gr boolits.

SG

As I understand the original load was 40gr FFFG. Then the Army went to 30gr FFFG to reduce recoil.

What are the ballistics with 143gr ball? I was shooting my 5.5" Remington this weekend. Just curious what energy 35gr FFFG with .454 ball produces.

I don't have the ballistics for the 35gr. FFFG load but I do have written down the 30gr. FFFG & Ball.

.457 142gr. Cast Ball
30gr. FFFG Goex
Lubed Wad
Remington #11 cap
758 fps.
180 ft. lbs.

It shoots groups prety good & has a decent punch but I normally load 22gr. FFFG in my lil Remington copy with Ball for the best groups & shots.

What's interesting is the comparison of ballistics between 220gr and 142gr bullets in 5.5" barrel. With the same charge the heavier bullet goes only about 50 fps slower while producing significantly more energy.

How much faster do you think the additional 5gr of FFFG make the ball go? Can it be determined at the next range trip?

Also, I'm using Pyrodex P. How does it compare to the Goex powder you're using?

With the 220gr. Conical I'm only using the lube groves but no Wadding but with the 142gr. Ball I'm only using the lubed wads which may be why I'm only 56 FPS slower & not more than that between the two.

By Sam Fadala in his book Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual, a 5gr. increase of powder will yield 50 - 60 fps. more speed on average.

Also by Sam Pyrodex P will yield approximatly 60 - 75 fps. faster bullet speed than Goex FFFG, I use Pyrodex P every once in a while with great results I just preferr the Real Black. :D

ok let me school you.
the barrel does not know what was fired from behind it.

i can duplicate a load of bp exactly using a 45 colt. Its called a gallery load. The fall 2008 edition of Guns of the Old West has an excellent article on it.

The test was used as follows
1. lee 45 colt die set
2. 45 colt shells
3. Goex 3f
4. Large pistol primers
5. .454 round balls

The shells were sized to specs, primers inserted. then 5 grains of goex was poured in. The Author used a mallet to start the round ball. Then a wooden dowel to drive the ball down to meet the powder. then the round was given a light crimp to prevent the ball from coming back out. Same thing was also done using 15 grains of Goex.

Test results at 15 yards 5 grains produced 396fps. 3 inch groups. 15 grains of goex raised to 663fps with 1.5 inch groups.

thus it is possible to load up 20 and even 30 grains of goex with a round ball. it just takes a proper crimp. you need to make sure more than half of the ball is behind the brass to give it a proper crimpt to keep the ball in rather than force it out. using this method it would be good to still use crisco or bore butter over the balls to lubricate the ball. results would be just like using a cap and ball. just you putting the cap in the back of the brass and loading the powder and ball in the brass then putting it in the revolver. These types of loads were first developed to keep the cost of shooting down. You could load up a bunch of these gallery loads and shoot all day long on the cheap.

Scrat:
I agree 100%, although I do not have a cartridge conversion cylinder I do something similar to that approach.

My normal back woods & club load for my Pietta '58 NMA with the 5.5" barrel is 30gr. FFFG Goex, a .456 220gr. Lee Conical & ofcorse Remington cap.
A fairly accurate load of 3" at 25 yards but it has a very authoritive punch on the receiving end.

My target load for this pistol is 22gr. FFFG Goex, a Lubed wad & .457 142gr. cast Ball & cap.
Accuracy is awesome with averaging groups around 1.5" at 25 yards "as long as I do my part" but quite fun to shoot & Cheap.

Average 230 shots to a pound of Goex for the heavier loads will equal $.14 each shot $32.20.

Average 315 shots to a pound of Goex for the target load will equal $.125 each shot $39.35.

It may cost $7.00 more for the target load I get nearly 100 more shots out of it.