[interlock]

I suppose this could go into the reloading section but it is a hunting load.

rifle remmy model 7 in 7mm08
bullet sierra prohunter 120gr spitzer
powder 45.5 gr H4895
primer cci large rifle
brass remmy full lengthed and trimmed
not sure of the oal but it is half a turn of the seating die off the lands.

Superbly accurate, sub 1 inch groups.

i shot 9 deer all but one DRT and that only ran 25 yards. all but one chest shot. only one bullet recovered, expansion was good and mushroom like. No evidence of any fragmentation.

a good bullet

interlock

[stiab]

I've killed four deer this year that ranged from 115 to a little over 150 pounds (as per my scale). All were shot with .30-06 Federal Hi Shoks, and I've recovered two bullets. Both mushroomed well, but after being weighed I learned they retained only half their original weight. Is there a standard, or typical for weight retension? This sounds low to me. Don't mean to hijack your thread, I think this is related, thanks.

[Eagle103]

Good to know. That's the bullet my son is using this year but it hasn't been tested on a deer yet. We'll get a chance with all the does in our area but he's holding out for a nice buck for now. It is also sub MOA and around 2900 fps out of his Savage 7mm-08 over 44g of Varget with CCI primers.

[351 WINCHESTER]

Of the dozens and dozens of deer I have killed mostly with a .30-30 I have yet to recover a bullet.

What's ya'lls secret?

I have recovered .45acp bullets from hogs and a few .308 silvertips from hogs too.

[stiab]

I expect to find more bullets than I do, suspect some fall out with the guts. On this deer, I extracted the bullet before I ever gutted him. When I flipped him over in the woods to see if the bullet exited, I could see it was just under his hide. Pulled out my pocket knife, made a 1/2 inch cut, and it popped into my hand. I try to look for them when cleaning the deer, but do not find them too often...
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/481405/1105271/339446936.jpg

[J23]

I butcher my own, and actually found a spent bullet in the crockpot once. It was buryed in a ham, at least most of it.

From what I remember, it was a 308, 150 grain Hornady Interlock, shot quartering toward, at about 70 yards.

I didnt weigh it for retained weight, as Im not a big believer in that theory. The mushroom was not pretty. Obviously it did the trick, however.

[TexAg]

The last two deer I shot with Hornady 6mm 95gr SST I recovered the bullet well mushroomed just under the hide on the back side of the deer. These are the only two bullets I've recovered but have only recently started using these loads, before I used Remington core loks.
I've also recovered two polymer tips from two hogs I shot with .30-30 LeverEvolution rounds. Not the bullet though!

[J23]

FROM MY LOGS...

Opening day of WV, 2006...

Shot [the largest submitted buck taken in West Virginia that year according to DNR, Im proud] at approximatly 70 yards with a .270 Ruger 77 Tang.

The buck was quartered towards me, about 45 degrees. I placed my handload through his right shoulder, penetrated and destroyed the lugs, diaphram, placed a nice golf ball sized hole in the liver (dammit) coming to rest against the hide just ahead of his left hip. The deer dropped like a house fell on him, legs folded up under him as if he were sleeping.

The load?

60.0 grains H4831 (Jack O'Connor's load) CCI 200, Winchester Brass topped off with the Nosler 130 grain Ballistic Tip.

Proof positive that the Ballistic Tip does not desinigrate, even at high velocity [load chrono's at 3006 fps avg] at short range, even after hitting bone. In my eye, and from my experience, the ballistic tip (hunting type) is the quessential deer bullet.

[Shawnee]

Hi TexAg...

Glad to see your report on the Hornady 95gr. SST. Just bought some to try in my new Rem. Model Seven.

;)

[TexAg]

Funny, I used them in my old Model Seven!
The only problem with the last deer was he ran about 30-40 yards but looped around where I could not see him, so it took me awhile to find him. There was absolutely no blood trail at all, not even any blood on the ground where he fell. I shot him at about 60-70 yards. The other deer I shot with that load was a doe at 160 yards and she fell right where I shot her.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Surprised someone named interlock is touting Sierra bullets, not Hornady.

Not surprised that an internet hunter had 7 out of 8 chest chests (87.5%) fall dead right there - nevermind that H&H hunter, who is more experienced than any 20 of us on here, has clearly stated the truth for us that we all know (those of us who hunt), that only about 10% of chest shots on game result in them DRT. :rolleyes:

stiab, that's a *really* nice buck! :eek:

[~z]

I'm not surprised by 7 of 8 DRT. Just sounds like good shooting to me. I thought they were supposed to fall. Maybe I'm just lucky too.
~z

[J23]

PremiumSauces...

I am not surprised at the 8-9 DRT count. That is not the result of hunting prowess, but shooting skill and proper bullet performance. I have been hunting deer with a rifle for 17 years now (God. :what::(:barf:) and to my recollection, I have had to track ONE deer more than a few yards.

The firearms was a cut-down Swedish Mauser shooting 6.5x55 and 140 grain Sierra GameKings (if I remember correctly, this was in 1997 or 98.) I made a horrible shot a little too far back, and ended up trailing the buck (a small half-rack) for several HUNDRED yards before catching up with him and putting one through his neck, causing a DRT. I trailed that deer so far, that for a portion of time, I wasnt even following blood or guts, but instead his tracks.

Of course, I cant say the same with bowhunting, I have only caused one DRT with a bow, and that was a straight down spine shot last year.

[interlock]

premium sauces stated


"Not surprised that an internet hunter had 7 out of 8 chest chests (87.5%) fall dead right there - nevermind that H&H hunter, who is more experienced than any 20 of us on here, has clearly stated the truth for us that we all know (those of us who hunt), that only about 10% of chest shots on game result in them DRT."

The implication is that i have lied and that i am an internet hunter, not a real hunter.

Not true.

How can you make a decision like that having never met me and hunted with me?

I also culled 2 x roe deer at the weekend just gone and they both were drt..... or did i make that up aswell?

I choose appropriatte calibre and bullet choices for what i shoot, i shoot at reasonable ranges and place my shots. I practise my shooting quite regularly.

Don't make internet judgements, i don't make internet shots.

(i use interlock in my .243 win sierra in my 7mm08 and sierra in my .30-06)

interlock aka uk roe hunter

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I'm sorry, but I do not feel that I can budge on this point. I can make that decision because you cannot break the laws of physics and physiology; you can only break yourself against them. If you were really really really really really lucky, and had a really really really reallly really good shot every time, *maybe* 20% or even up to one-third possibly would drop "dead right there" as you said. There is a 0.000000000000000000001% chance that 87.5% of them did. You can take out the entire heart of an animal and it still has plenty of oxygen left in it's body to run a pretty good ways.

Do you watch hunting shows? Why is it that our own H&H hunter, who has hunted on multiple continents, pretty much every conceivable game known to man says about 10%, and the professional hunters on teevee hunting shows get about 10%, and *I* and my friends all get about 10%, but it's just you and other internet hunters who get 87.5%? I sure would like to hear you and ~z try to explain that.

Yes, to call me skeptical would be an understatement. I don't have to know you to know that animals RUN when they are hit in the heart/lungs, the vast majority of the time (even if only a few yards), and I don't care if they're hit with a .50 BMG or whatever magnumbuttstomper you have. Do roe deer have some magically-different physiological property which causes all blood in their body to violently expel from their body, taking the red blood cells and oxygen with them when, instantaneously when their skin is pierced? If the animal has oxygen to feed the muscle tissue, it will run most of the time until the oxygen runs out or it feels safe enough to stop/lie down (whichever comes first), except in the somewhat rare circumstance when the stars line up.


and to my recollection, I have had to track ONE deer more than a few yards.

That I believe. BUT, "A few yards"

IS NOT

"DEAD RIGHT THERE".

"Dead. Right. There" means not taking a single solitary step. DRT means sack of potatoes. No wonder the exxageration gets perpetuated, with everyone taking serious liberties with the English language. :( :cuss: :rolleyes:

[interlock]

"Do you watch hunting shows? Why is it that our own H&H hunter, who has hunted on multiple continents, pretty much every conceivable game known to man says about 10%, and the professional hunters on teevee hunting shows get about 10%, and *I* and my friends all get about 10%, but it's just you and other internet hunters who get 87.5%? I sure would like to hear you and ~z try to explain that."


WE WILL HAVE TO AGREE TO DIFFER. WE ARE ON DIFFERENT CONTINENTS AND UNLIKELY TO EVER MEET UP TO HUNT TOGETHER. I WAS THERE, I PULLED THE TRIGGER, I PICKED UP THE CARCASSES, I KNOW WAHT HAPPENNED. BUT YOU CLEARLY KNOW SO MUCH BETTER THAN ME ON THIS THAT YOU CAN TELL ME THAT I AM WRONG DESPITE THE FACT YOU ARE 3000 MILES AWAY.
:mad:

[~z]

As for me...Sorry I have no explanation to offer. On average I shoot about 10-20 deer a year; most from a distance where they are not aware of my presence. I can not guarantee that all expired at the moment of impact, suffice to say they went down and did not run off. When shooting from a distance, I can take my time and do not rush the shot, I choose the time and I choose the shot. I almost always (>90%) take a high shoulder shot. This tends to anchor them in place.
I don’t doubt there are many people in this world and on this site that have more experience than I do. I can only report on my experiences, suffice to say I do not appreciate what you seem to be implying. Maybe interlock and I are just extremely lucky fellers.
~z

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

OK, agree to differ - maybe I'm wrong (to a small extent, but probably not to a large extent). But let's say I'm wrong for purposes of going forward amicably. :p :)

But get the Outdoor Channel and Versus.com or come hunting with me or anyone I know with a video camera, if you want to see video proof - you can set your VCRs for the shows - I don't think that they take all the DRT shots and eliminate them from the scenes shown (in fact, I know they don't because a few of them ARE shown)... But maybe those hunters are using plastic bullets to maximize poor performance because the running after the shot helps to up their ratings.... yeah, that's it! :)

But sorry if I offended - if I did, I apologize.

[Shawnee]

Hi ~z...

Maybe just a misunderstanding here. A "high shoulder shot" can often zap the spine which I'm sure "Sauce" counts as a CNS hit rather than a "through the lungs" hit.

:)

[~z]

I think I spend enough time in the field and have enough experience to draw from that I dont need to watch someone else do it on TV. What if I learn from them and all my deer start running off? That would be rather unfortunate.
I have never understood the heart shot, to me that would be similar to intentionally trying to destroy the tenders with the shot. Heart is #2 on my list of the 3 tastiest parts of a deer.
My luck could have something to do with shot placement and the fact that I am generally shooting at very calm unspooked deer, not critters all pumped up with adrenaline and ready to cut out like a tightly coiled spring. Also most of my deer are 100lb does, not rut crazed bucks.
Again I can not verify they were dead at the moment of impact, but I can attest to the fact that they generally go straight down and are dead when I get there. Sorry, I have no proof to offer other than pictures and my word.
What part of the world are you hunting in Sauce and how many do you generally get a year?
~z

[~z]

Shawnee, I think you slipped off the "other" thread and ended up here. This one started innocently enough as a “hunting bullet report” for Sierra ProHunters, not the DRT Poll where CNS is not considered “vitals”. And yes, you are exactly right; it does seem to interrupt something. I very rarely notice any “obvious” trauma (bullet or bone fragments) to the spine but can only assume the hydrostatic shock/word of the day for “expansive impact pressure” must do something to disrupt the CNS. It works well if you want to anchor them and like a tasty snack of pan fried heart.
~z

[Shawnee]

Oooops. Oh well... everyone steps in it once in a while :)

[uk roe hunter]

"maybe I'm wrong (to a small extent, but probably not to a large extent). But let's say I'm wrong for purposes of going forward amicably. "


3000 posts or not, the concieted arrogance of the man takes some believing.

[matrem]

"Internet hunters"! (yea,that'll cover it!)
Sure seem to be a lot of them here, eh?

[~z]

Maybe just stirring the pot now, but… You know, UK/interlock, it does take some gall for someone to start jumping on strangers and calling them “internet hunters” when that someone has racked up almost 3.5K posts in a year…irony!
~z

[K3]

My doe was punched right through both lungs with a 180gr GameKing. She ran over 50 yards. But, there was a nice blood trail to follow. Exit hole was about 1" in diameter, and no meat damaged. I'm happy with my bullet choice.

[Big_R]

I typically use a 7-08 for Minnesota white tail and have only recovered one bullet. It was a Speer 140 gr spitz hot core which hit a large doe right in the sternum and was recovered from the rear quarter during skinning. Perfect mushroom and the deer ran ~20 yards and piled up.

This year, I bought some 160 gr Nosler Partitions to try. I hit my buck through the neck/spine from ~70 yards. Obviously, the bullet wasn't recovered. There was significant damage to the spine (splintered). That deer piled up on the spot.

Both bullets were used in handloads running ~2500 fps.

I've used other Speer hot core bullets in my 35 rem with good results also. For less expensive bullets, I think they do really well, at least at those velocities.

Ryan

[d2wing]

http://www.deerhuntersclub.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/393
I shot this 14 pointer with a .223 55 gr Black Hills psp. Lung shot, went 40 yards.

[d2wing]

Hmm pic doesn't show. It was a big 14 pt buck, field dressed 188 lbs. I am waiting the green score. I normaly use a 30-06 or 7mm. This year .22 centerfires were legal and I wanted to try one. I was worried that I would see the biggest deer ever and the .223 wouldn't bring him down. He showed up and went down.:)

[TexAg]

One of the reasons I joined here was because it was the "highroad" and it's not very highroad at all to call someone a liar over the Internet.
And good point ~z

[frogomatic]

I have to side with the "internet hunters". Since I started deer hunting I've never had a deer do anything but drop on the spot. However, I don't take questionable shots, I don't take shots beyond my ability(and I practice enough to KNOW my ability), I don't shoot at moving targets, and I don't take shots at more than 100 yards. I'm patient, I'm steady, and I don't pull the trigger unless I'm absolutely certain I can kill the animal on the spot with a single shot. I also took the time to develop my skill as a shooter, and have worked hard to keep that skill in practice. I took the time to learn all I could about the anatomy of a deer. I choose my hunting bullets carefully. I load carefully, and test those loads constantly. So before some of you start accusing folk of lying, perhaps you should consider that there are a few of us that take the "quick, clean kill" VERY seriously. For me, it's a matter of practicality, I hunt in very thick bush, and I know if I don't kill it on the spot, I will have a very trying time tracking it down. That gives me very strong motivation to be very selective about the shots I take.

I've fired one shot for every deer I've yet taken, 100% of them went nowhere but down. that's a FACT. 100% isn't luck, it's a combination of knowing the physical structure of my prey, being patient, staying calm, and good shooting skill.

So instead of accusing folk of lying, perhaps you should look at yourself, and ask why have I not killed every deer on the spot. I've lived the proof that it is, in fact, possible to only take the shots that are lethal on the spot. It can be done, now get out there and do it.

oh yeah, my load of choice is Hornady's .358 250grn SP interlock powered by 48.5 grains of H4895

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

OK, maybe I could possibly be wrong; if I am, I apologize. But seeing is believing, and on the internet, there are lots of pretty letters and words. But lots and lots of viewed reality doesn't match the pretty words. So again, if I'm wrong, I am big enough to say I'm very sorry. But the weight of the evidence is just overwhelmingly against it. Carry on. :p :)

[K3]

Lethal on the spot?

My shot was lethal on the spot. Just ook a minute for the deer to understand that. My shot was steady. The deer was standing broadside. The shot was taken from about 150 yards, and I put the bullet where I wanted. A hit in the boiler room will not always DRT a deer. If I wanted to do that, I’d aim a little more forward and catch some of the front shoulders too, but I don’t like mussing up too much meat. And nobody can guarantee 100% of the time with any bullet that a hit in the shoulders will cause negligible meat damage (Or a DRT for that matter). Bullets do funny things when they hit bone. The exit hole on my doe was small because both coming and going, the bullet didn’t touch a rib. That same bullet, when hitting a rib, makes a *slightly* more noticeable exit hole, as I saw on a meat buck last January in Mississippi..

None of the guys I hunt with have a 100% DRT sack ‘o taters ratio. All have had deer run some amount of distance, even if it’s just 15 or 20 feet. Some DRT. I shot a nice 8 point 5 or 6 years ago, and he literally collapsed on the spot. He was hit in pretty much the same spot as my doe I just got. In fact, that’s the only one I’ve ever had that truly DRT with out taking a single step. My brother was with me on the canyon rim when I hit him. When I shot and hit, I said ‘I got him’. He just looked at me and said ’Ya think???’

[Art Eatman]

We've gone through all this silliness before, which has given me some thinking time. I can recall three deer that I hit in the apparently-correct heart/lung area and they did not stay right there. One buck just flat got a way; my father and I searched for sign for over an hour with no luck. I had two does go down, jump up, and then go at most 50 yards before flopping over dead.

I went for a neck shot on a doe at about 40 yards. She moved; the 165-grain Sierra HPBT entered the upper right shoulder blade and blew out the upper end of the left foreleg. She spun on her hind feet and three-legged it about 50 yards. When the bullet hit, it looked like a Peckinpaugh movie of blood and goo going out the off side. She left a foot-wide blood trail through the Johnson grass.

Everything else was DRT, although most of that was on account of neck shots. I don't really recall how many deer I killed on the old home place, culling to reduce the overpopulation. Real hunting, I guess I tagged some 40 or a few more bucks, remembering that Texas mostly has had a two-buck limit for years and years. Nowadays, I mostly just take friends out, and I hunt real hard around the campfire.

It doesn't mean doodly-squat if somebody is an "Internet hunter". Leave 'em be. If you're a real hunter, hey, that's cool. Me? I'm easy to find, if you have the time and inclination, and there're plenty of horns nailed up in the garage...

:D, Art

[frogomatic]

a heart/jung shot can't guarantee an instant kill, research has proven this. however, disrupting the central nervous system anywhere from the base of the neck to the brain fully paralyzes the creature. Even if it doesn't kill them instantly, the rest of the body stops getting the message from the brain to continue functioning. Legs won't run, heart won't beat, lungs won't breathe. This is the way I do it, and to date, no deer I've shot has ever ran anywhere. Just gotta be patient enough to wait for that perfect shot. I've watched a whole lot of deer go right on by without taking a shot because they never presented me with a proper shot. This year alone I had to let 3 differnt 4x4's get away because they just wouldn't give me a good shot. Did get a nice button buck though, he came up to within 15 yards, he stood still for a moment, and I put one through his spine about halfway between the shoulders and head. He dropped like rock. no bloody mess in the chest cavity, and no wasted meat.

[K3]

I've never taken a neck shot myself. I'm pretty sure I can, but there's enough of a confidence issue/mental block that I havne't tried one yet.

Now, predator hunting under a red light? I usually go for neck or head.

I don't know why the disconnect with deer though. :confused:

[interlock]

Art,
We all have different opinions, thats cool......

I object to being called a liar. I object to being told i am an internet hunter by a guy sat 3000 miles away, telling me that i am lying about a hunt that i carried out in England.

I am lots of things, i am not a liar, who would it benefit coming on here to lie?

interlock / uk

[fireman 9731]

so back to the topic.....

I havent used that many different hunting bullets but I have to say that my favorite is the Barnes TSX. I like the solid copper and reliable even expansion. the only downside is cost!

[~z]

88204

88205
Got sidetracked, I meant to post these pics a while ago. A nice pair of 139gn Hornady Interlocks I recovered from my 7-08. Both under the skin on the far side. Both high shoulder shots (through both scapulas) on 100# does. One at 244yds the other at 260yds. Both dropped like they were hit with Thor’s mighty hammer.
~z

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

If I didn't make it abundantly clear above, I do apologize and am now convinced that you guys are not exaggerating/lying about getting a high % bangflop with certain animal types and/or loads..... so I guess there's a lot more to my (apparently hare-brained) theory than just a cut and dried rule, as the vastly varying answers in my poll thread on the subject shows - there are just many many variables. A lot of people share my experience, but a lot of people are on the other end of the spectrum, too (and still others in the middle). So I was wrong it would appear, to make such a dogmatic judgment. Again, sorry. :)

[~z]

Apology accepted, lets move on. As they say, individual results may vary. And yea, there are a buncha hacks, truth stretchers, and self proclaimed experts with very little experience mixed in with the folks who know some useful info. I’d be a bit more tactful calling folks out as they may have some of that valuable info that may assist you in the future. Again, apology accepted no grudges on this end.
~z

[MAGNUM44]

Always had great results with factory or reloaded Nosler partition bullets on deer, never lost one yet with them in either 243 cal or my 270 winc

[interlock]

Lets be fair, the nosler partition is a truly great bullet