My "anti" boss said no to an offer of range time


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geegee
September 17, 2003, 06:35 PM
My boss is actually a good friend. We worked together for a number of years, but now I report to him. At first glance it would seem obvious that we have little in common. He thinks I'm a "Right wing, born again, gun toting, knife obsessed" kook. I guess I'd describe him as a "California liberal, vegetarian, left wing, ant-gunner." But our differences notwithstanding, we've always had a mutual respect for each other and I do think highly of him.

He's traveling with me in my region this week, and I had planned on taking him shooting today over at the Bass Pro Shop, at Grapevine Mills. I figured after we could have dinner at Big Buck's, next door (plus he's staying at the Embassy Suites right next door to Big Buck's). This morning I packed up a Ruger .22, my Browning Hi Power, and my Wilson Millenium Protector, plus my range bag.

After our last appointment, I headed to the range. On the way I told him he really needed to unwind a little and have some fun (he sleeps a few hours a night and has a work ethic that leaves most people in the dust). I then told him my plan as we got nearer, and he refused! :( Here's the killer part. He said that shooting a gun is just one of those things he decided long ago never to do, and in fact was pleased that he's never broken a promise to his kids to ever shoot a gun or do drugs! :what:

I said, yeah well I really don't think drug use and shooting a gun are exactly analogous. After a second he admitted that, no that was probably a poor analogy (I'm thinking to myself "Yeah it's flat out ridiculous, and while you now know how stupid it sounds, I bet you still believe it.").

So I dropped him off at the hotel, and that was it. I'll be picking him up for dinner in about 30 minutes, and I'm sure it will be a little strained, but ok. More than anything, I really feel sorry for a guy who actually believes all the hysteria and hype that the anti's promote. This guy has an IQ in the genius range, but really buys the anti argument hook, line, and sinker. If this attitude doesn't define what a hoplophobe is, then I don't know what does. geegee

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OEF_VET
September 17, 2003, 06:39 PM
Intelligence doesn't equal common sense.

Justin
September 17, 2003, 06:40 PM
That's really a bummer, but you can't win them all. I had a similar situation with a friend of mine who, though an extremely cool person, just couldn't get with the idea of going to the range.

Sometimes it happens. Despite the fact that almost everyone who goes to the range for the first time has fun, some just simply won't go. I'd say mention it once more as an open invitation, in case he ever changes his mind, and drop the topic.

Don't worry, there's no shortage of fence-sitters out there.

jsalcedo
September 17, 2003, 06:55 PM
Kind of sad.

Some of the vehement anti's I've known were excited about going shooting. It was like they were looking at their first playboy magazine.

At least this guy has principles even though misguided.

You might be able to work on him, start off with blowgun, bow or
sling shot. Its a good way to make the transition.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
September 17, 2003, 08:00 PM
If you're going to eat at Big Bucks, I'd go ahead and head to the range after dessert anyway. Maybe he can look at the Earth Shoes and have a bottle of water while he's waiting for you while relaxing at the range with your Wilson. I bet even the fishing stuff escapes his interest.


Regards,
Rabbit.

Standing Wolf
September 17, 2003, 08:03 PM
This guy has an IQ in the genius range, but really buys the anti argument hook, line, and sinker.

I.Q. points and intellectual courage are completely unrelated.

Hot brass
September 17, 2003, 08:07 PM
My boss is one SMART sob. But hates guns. Was in the service. In a meeting stated that a neighbor had a "CCW" permit, his eyes were BIG as he stated this. Said the guy OWNS a gun to carry. I don`t know if I was scared or dumb founded at his remark. It was like only the rich should have a "CCW".

C.R.Sam
September 17, 2003, 08:23 PM
I'm with Justin on this.
Make sure he has an open invitation but don't push it.
Not worth losing a friendship if you up against a rock.

Sam

berettaman
September 17, 2003, 10:14 PM
On the way to dinner take the long way thru a seed/rough part of town.Maybe you'll to see a beatin' or a muggin' or a rape in progress.
Visual aids can be very persuasive.:evil:

geegee
September 17, 2003, 10:38 PM
On the way to dinner take the long way thru a seed/rough part of town.Maybe you'll to see a beatin' or a muggin' or a rape in progress.
You know, the last time I had an intense discussion with an anti- co worker, I asked him if his wife of 9 months had a right to self defense (as we travel quite a bit on our jobs). His reply was "Well, no. Not with a gun." I said "Mike, I'm talking about your wife, if sombeody wants to kick in the back door when you're away...your wife! "
"Well, uh...." Then after a full minute of silence (and him really thinking over the question): "Look, I don't want to argue about this!" I said very quietly "I don't think we're arguing about anything, but don't you think it's worth discussing?" End of discussion.

I really do understand this. When someone confronts you with a view that challenges a long held belief. It rocks your world and forces you to re-think everything you had to that point accepted as a Gospel truth. And that ain't easy. geegee

blades67
September 17, 2003, 10:50 PM
After some scumbag steals the wife's heirloom silver while he's out of town she may just be the one that takes you up on your invitation!

Ex-Doc
September 17, 2003, 10:57 PM
Too bad he didn't promise his mother not to have sex!:D

hillbilly
September 17, 2003, 11:54 PM
You made an offer and got turned down.

Don't push it. Let it lay.

But realize this......even though you got told "no" you might have planted a seed which will bear fruit later.

Don't push boss to go shooting, but don't hide the fact that you have fun shooting.

Maybe six months from now, boss brings up the topic and asks you to take him shooting after all........


hillbilly

Brian Dale
September 18, 2003, 12:09 AM
Sounds like good advice about being straightforward about enjoying yourself, yet not being pushy.

Once upon a time, when the situation (that I won't go into) in the area outside our workplace warranted it, a boss of mine lent me one of his Beretta 92s for a couple of night shifts (at a technical-gadget-operating job, not security or LE) while he carried another. Cool guy.

I'm glad that your boss respects your character enough to listen.

PawDaddy
September 18, 2003, 01:15 AM
Some people are educated beyond their intelligence!

WonderNine
September 18, 2003, 02:08 AM
That just totally sucks. Honestly, I would push it on him. Not "being" pushy, but people like that just get on my nerves, I'd keep on him until he sees the error of his ways. And eventually he would.

New_comer
September 18, 2003, 05:42 AM
Win him over using "subliminal" messages...


Decorate your desk with a trophy, medal, a picture with your son or something, advertising your involvement in a wholesome recreation - sport shooting. A good desktop image with a catchy phrase or two could do the trick. :)


Best to lead him in by putting our best foot forward, not with the grim reality of crime, deterrence, threats...


I've no doubt that realization will eventually dawn on him... eventually. ;)

marvl
September 18, 2003, 07:01 AM
What exactly does this guy think is gonna happen if he shoots a gun? I can understand a fear of drugs and a fear of addiction. But punching a hole in a piece of paper?

Maybe you should run that Sigmund Freud quote by him. :(

GSB
September 18, 2003, 07:22 AM
This guy has an IQ in the genius range

I've known a number of really brilliant people who believe in some really weird stuff.

GSB
September 18, 2003, 07:23 AM
What exactly does this guy think is gonna happen if he shoots a gun? I can understand a fear of drugs and a fear of addiction

I shot a gun once, and now I'm addicted. The man's concerns in that regard may be legitimate. :D

geegee
September 18, 2003, 09:03 AM
Maybe you should run that Sigmund Freud quote by him.
:D :D Funny you should mention that, marvl! I gave him that exact quote about 4 hours earlier in the day! At the time, I guess I didn't know he'd probably be mulling that one over while we were driving. Hee hee heee...geegee

El Tejon
September 18, 2003, 09:19 AM
Leave it at a standing invitation and don't labor the point.

Maybe you need to slip him some Texification vitamins?:D

Majic
September 18, 2003, 09:21 AM
You have made the offer and he turned it down qualifying it with an explanation. Leave the subject alone. Remember he has his rights to his opinions and feelings just as you. If you really want someone to respect your rights, you have to respect theirs.

Double Naught Spy
September 18, 2003, 09:26 AM
Note that geegee's boss has not restricted geegee in any manner in regard to guns (or I am sure he would have told us). So the guy may not be pro-gun, but he isn't dictating his beliefs to geegee. Not liking guns does not mean he does not have common sense. It is just his belief.

And what better person for geegee to have accompanying him in his travels than a fully mobile personal barricade. Why sacrifice a perfectly good pro-gun person when an anti will do?

brownie0486
September 18, 2003, 09:40 AM
The offer was made and there was a refusal to accept.

The reason for the refusal is irrelevant. Respect his decision and move onto something both can find common ground in. If he is a friend, why take the chance trying to convert him will ruin the friendship or cause hard feelings.

I throw offers to non-gun people all the time. Only a few have ever taken me up on the offer. A few more came back years or months later and stated they'd like to go the next time I was heading to the range.

One of my neighbors had the offer from me 9 years ago. He never accpeted. One day thre months ago, he came over and asked me to take him the next time I went out to the range. He was thinking of getting a carry permit and wanted to try the revolvers and autos to see which he could handle better if he decided to carry.

The guy now has his ccw and bought a revolver. He's on his own now and I feel I had a small part in his turn around. I did not push or ask again after the initial offer. Some people will say "sure" when offered, then always have a reason why other things take precedence when push comes to shove. I think they do not want to say no and be rude, but really do not want to go deep down.

He knows you personally, you are friends, if he wants to experience it he'll let you know. It might even be considered rude and overbearing to push the idea on him again. You may not feel that way, but it is his feelings that are relevant and he may just feel you are pushing to ask again.

Thats not the way to bring someone around to experiencing the joys of discharge.;)

Brownie

CZ 75 BD
September 18, 2003, 10:03 AM
at Grapevine Mills? In the Bass Pro?

:)

Next trip to Dallas just got better!

Spot77
September 18, 2003, 10:21 AM
I think I've figured out a rather unique, and easily overlooked reason that many people won't accept an offer to go to the range: They're embarrassed.

Let's think about it; America's most popular tv shows for DECADES have shown men picking up the biggest mofo gun and knocking down 6 BG's in 5 shots.....So that's what a lot of people think should really happen. People who have never REALLY been exposed to firearms feel embarrassed when, at age 25,30,35 etc they have never shot a gun before. So instead of admitting that they're a little nervous or inexperienced, they resort to the most ready answer available (thank you liberal anti-gun losers): "I don't like guns" It's much easier to say that than to admit that they're just plain scared. Which is where you can make a difference. I've converted a few people (not true "antis", just unaware people, happy in their ignorance) by letting them just hold one of my handguns first. Instead of me pulling the gun out, dropping the mag and racking the slide open in a quick motion, I move the gun slowly and show them exactly what I'm doing. I show them where the mag release is, WHAT the mag and mag release are, and I show them how to inspect the chamber for a bullet. It's a very stress free action, sans machoism. Before they even know it, they know TEN times more about firearms than they knew five minutes earlier. Then their curiosity usually gets the best of them and soon we're off to the range.

Think about it the next time somebody tells you they don't "like guns" or are "against guns". Ask if they've ever held one first....don't even mention shooting one. Most people will at least try holding one :evil:

brownie0486
September 18, 2003, 11:15 AM
Spot77 :

Good thought processes going on there me thinks.

Brownie

Gordon Fink
September 18, 2003, 11:28 AM
My younger brother is one of the most intelligent people I know. I have offered to take him to the range several times, and he has always declined. “Just not interested,” he says. :(

~G. Fink

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
September 18, 2003, 11:40 AM
Y'know, the more I look at this and think on it the more it's analogous to trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig. My brother-in-law is of a similar mindset- I've made the offer to take him to the range when he was here, and he declined. He has a wife and 3 children under the age of 10. He installs alarms for a living, sometimes. Thinks a cellphone and a loud siren will fix anything.

Geegee, I know you tried by making the offer of going to the range. Some folks don't get it; some folks get it eventually. I'm pleased it appears you've not forced the issue, which would be a mistake. If you did, it could skew your professional relationship with him as well.

I'll watch your back if you'll watch mine.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Jmurman
September 18, 2003, 12:31 PM
<<<You made an offer and got turned down.

Don't push it. Let it lay.

But realize this......even though you got told "no" you might have planted a seed which will bear fruit later.

Don't push boss to go shooting, but don't hide the fact that you have fun shooting.

Maybe six months from now, boss brings up the topic and asks you to take him shooting after all........>>>

agreed, this would be he best way of handling this situation.

Flynt
September 18, 2003, 12:43 PM
geegee,

This is slightly off topic, but I never realized that Bass Pro at Grapevine Mills Mall had a range! I've been there a million times, in the gun dept. and elsewhere, and must have walked right past it. What kind of range is it? what do they charge? Do they let you try out the merchandise? Thanks.

-- Don

geegee
September 18, 2003, 04:20 PM
He knows you personally, you are friends, if he wants to experience it he'll let you know. It might even be considered rude and overbearing to push the idea on him again. You may not feel that way, but it is his feelings that are relevant and he may just feel you are pushing to ask again.
I agree completely with your statement brownie, as well as others who expressed similar opinions. Here's the rub. I learned long ago that there are some personal interests of a person's life best left unsaid. A good example is a discussion of someone's new diet. While it may be personally very interesting to the one who is experiencing it, it can become unbelievably boring to others around you if they are forced to hear about it n on-stop. The best solution is to let it lie, until someone opens the discussion with a direct question.

Similarly, I know my boss has no desire in shooting (or knives), while he knows I am intensely interested in both. He will often make snide little comments about guns and knives (and those who are interested in them) during the course of a normal conversation, without me raising the topics. I know he has no interest, so why bother? But that doesn't stop him from trying to bait me into a response to his comments. I thought his visit here and a week together would provide a perfect opportunity for him to experience some shooting first hand, and in a controlled and safe environment. His refusal to do so is what chaps me more than anything. In the years we've known each other, I've never made fun of, nor brought up his vegetarianism, although like many liberals he loves touting it, as though he's become a vegetarian due to his "enlightenment."

Needless to say, the next crack I hear from him about guns and/or the people who like them, he will quickly and politely be reminded of the fact that he was offered a chance to safely experience some shooting first hand, and unlike so many people who keep an open mind to new experiences, turned it down. geegee

Gordon Fink
September 18, 2003, 04:38 PM
In the years we’ve known each other, I’ve never made fun of, nor brought up his vegetarianism, although like many liberals he loves touting it, as though he’s become a vegetarian due to his “enlightenment.”

Off topic, but if your boss were truly enlightened, he would know that hominids had been eating meat (and almost anything else they could get their hands on) long before Homo sapiens evolved, and he would thus recognize that the natural human diet is omnivorous rather than herbivorous.

~G. Fink

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
September 18, 2003, 05:55 PM
The range entrance is to the far left of the firearms area, immediately to the left beside the big display full of live rattlesnakes. It is between the rattlesnakes and the knife-sharpening booth. It's easy to miss as I don't recall any signage indicating 'range is here'.

Regards,
Rabbit.

BluesBear
September 18, 2003, 06:12 PM
It is between the rattlesnakes and the knife-sharpening booth.
As well it should be.
If only all ranges had this much style and class.

:D

DFBonnett
September 18, 2003, 06:58 PM
My "anti" boss said no to an offer of range time

The man is an idiot. Don't take it personally. BTW, sooner or later he will sell you out at work. He won't be able to help it.

Double Naught Spy
September 18, 2003, 07:29 PM
Quote from geegee...
" I learned long ago that there are some personal interests of a person's life best left unsaid. "

So you aren't going to tell us about your pink bunny shooting outfit and fuzzy hearing protection?

geegee
September 18, 2003, 08:14 PM
So you aren't going to tell us about your pink bunny shooting outfit and fuzzy hearing protection?
While it may be personally very interesting to the one who is experiencing it, it can become unbelievably boring to others around you if they are forced to hear about it non-stop.
Time for me to take my own advice. :neener: geegee

Shalako
September 18, 2003, 08:44 PM
True gun-hating is a dogma.

People feel threatened when you intrude on their dogma. My step-mom is a true gun-hater. She truly believes that people that like guns are bad people. She tries to ignore the fact that I enjoy marksmanship and hunting and blocks it all out. She thinks all handguns should be outlawed....

On the other hand, my fiance is a vegetarian that used to hate all weapons. When I started showing her that marksmanship is kind of like throwing darts and can be quite fun, it totally changed her outlook. Its not all about violence, but about recreation and self-reliance/self-worth. Now she has her own revolver and was hitting all the targets on the first shot with a .22 on her first trip plinking.

There two types of antis. Don't waste your time on the first group.

geegee
September 18, 2003, 08:51 PM
Shalako: Good post! BTW, my boss will be landing in Sacramento in about two hours, in case you'd like to meet him and share your thoughts in person! ;) geegee

Covey Rise
September 19, 2003, 12:33 AM
Then he will understand that it is not an "evil" thing to do. In fact he will mostly likely will say, oh is that all you do, stand at that line and shoot little holes in paper.

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