[Master Blaster]

I saw this outdoorsman on gunbroker

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=115133594

It has a very unusual hammer, not sure if its original or a gunsmith job, what is the purpose of the hole? to reduce lock time?

Also the frame on this one appears to be solid under the grip, could this have been a factory custom or a prototype of some sort???

[Iggy]

Don't know anything about the hammer, but there appears to be an old S&W grip adapter in use.

[Gordon]

WOW! Need Old Fuff on that one, or maybe Jim Watson.:scrutiny:

[SaxonPig]

Hammer has been drilled for weight removal. A trick from long ago thought to speed up the hammer throw for target work.

[Master Blaster]

Would that hammer drilling be a factory job?

It also looks like the silver/gold bead on this one on the front sight is missing or has been replaced. And they are starting it at a collector price as well even thought the gun is obviously altered.

[22-rimfire]

Too rich for me. Not worth close to the starting price as far as I'm concerned, but I'm no S&W expert.

[SaxonPig]

Hammer is not factory.

The starting price is not outrageous for this gun. That grip adapter would sell for several hundred all by itself. Period modifications often do not detract from value as many collectors see them as correct to a historic gun.

[krs]

"Humpback" K-22 first Model, long action, early sight.

That used to be called a 'Speed Hammer' and was a fairly common trick thought to lower lock time for target shooting, as Saxon Pig says.

I'm more interested in the plates under the grips. It would have been done to add weight and change the balance, but what's interesting is that the plates are marked with a S&W rollstamp.

There were supposed to have been a few of these pistols built for the U.S. Army Shooting Team for use in the 1932 Olympics. This one is of the type and it's number is possibly right as there were 19,500 made beginning in 1931 with number 632132.

Just guessing, but it looks like it might have been reblued some time back.

[Old Fuff]

The stock adapter was a 1930's S&W option, most often seen on early .357 Magnum revolvers, but available for K-frames.

The hammer is not a "humpback," but has been altered as noted. I presume that it was aftermarket work, but I also notice that the color-case hardning seems to still be intact in some of the excellent pictures. In others it was wiped out by the flash. I wonder if the hammer might have been returned to S&W for refinishing (case hardened again) after the work was done, or it is remotely possible that S&W did the work as a special order project. Obviously this is a revolver that should be lettered.

Otherwise it appears to be a standard K-22 Outdoorsman as made during that time period (late 1930's/1941)

[The Bushmaster]

The plates under the grips would be for added weight and would help in acommidating larger hands...

[Jim Watson]

Thanks for the plug, Gordon, but the minutae of most such things is over my head.
I agree with Fuff except that I see no case colors in the countersinks to the lightening hole and a lot of toolmarks. I doubt S&W had anything to do with it. King's would "skeletonize" a hammer for $2 but I do not have a picture to know if it were anything more elaborate than a countersunk hole. (Their "cockeyed" hammer with offset for single action was $5.)

In 1939 the grip adapter was $2.50 for a $38 gun. Kind of a high end accessory.

See a real humpback hammer at
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/12/humpback-hammers.html

[saltydog452]

Random speculation, not even an educated guess but Bulls Eye target shooters did do some experimental stuff.

I recall an older .38 center fire revolver that was modified, presumably by S&W, so the double action would completely index the cylinder and bring the hammer into 'almost' full cock with no subsequent hammer drop. Full cock was achieved by the thumb, and hammer drop was single action only. Supposedly it speeded up cocking times for sustained fire at the short line.

Maybe the hole in the hammer could have been for a more easily reached spur to fully cock the revolver w/o altering the grip. Supposedly, that'd reduce the time required to manually thumb cock 4 rds during sustained fire matches?

I dunno.

salty

[kle]

Hammer has been drilled for weight removal. A trick from long ago thought to speed up the hammer throw for target work.

That's exactly the reason I prefer semi-target hammers to target hammers on my .22 revolvers for Bullseye competition: lighter hammer == faster 'lock-time' and less mass slamming into the frame.

[sadp40]

that there is no firing pin on the hammer? being an older smith it should have one on the hammer.
i think that for its time period it was state of the art in target guns.

[kle]

I thought none of the S&W .22 revolvers had firing-pins/noses on the hammers...

[Old Fuff]

All of the S&W hand ejector rimfire revolvers had frame-mounted firing pins, as does the one in question. You can see the firing pin in the last picture shown on the Gunbroker page.

Saltydog:

The single-action Model 14 that I had would rotate the cylinder when the trigger was pulled, but not cock the hammer. Because of the modified lockwork the hammer didn't have a double-action sear.

Target shooters (including the Old Fuff) would train themselves to help the hammer cock by starting out with a double-action trigger squeeze, and then about 2/3's of the way bring the hammer back the rest of the way with their thumb. The technique worked and no alterations to a conventional double-action revolver were necessary.

KLE:

The oversized "paddle" on the S&W target hammers were made that way so that target shooters could alter them to a particular shape that fit their needs. Prior hammers had to be welded up to add material for a wider spur. As it worked out though few owners actually altered the hammer, but those who did usually held a Master classification.

[kle]

well you learn something new (about something old) every day! Images of a Colt Python hammer-shaped hammer on my S&W 17-8 are permeating my thoughts now...mmmm....

[Old Fuff]

well you learn something new (about something old) every day! Images of a Colt Python hammer-shaped hammer on my S&W 17-8 are permeating my thoughts now...mmmm....

Or you can have a spur that's wider on one side then the other, or shorter, or whatever.

And yes, some custom revolver builders have duplicated the Python look... :cool:

[krs]

Humpback doesn't refer to the hammer per se, it refers to the rear of the frame and sometimes to the fact that in the long action the hammer extended beyond the 'Hump' to bite the shooter.

[Old Fuff]

Ah... no, don't think so.

The humpback hammer was a special option hammer where the usual shoulder at the top/front behind the hammer nose (firing pin) was eliminated so that the tip of one's thumb wouldn't bump into it while cocking the hammer. The top of the spur was higher, and wider at the base, but the lower/bottom of the spur ended up in about the same place when the hammer was cocked - relative to the hump in the frame.

[krs]

That all came out after the war. Preventing the whole thumb bump was a result of the humpback, but not the humpback.

This is an outdoorsman, 1st model K-22 humpback, reference pg 121 Supica, column one, not a K-22 masterpiece.

[SaxonPig]

krs- I have no idea what you are talking about. "Humpback" refers to a particular variety of hammer used on some pre-war S&W revolvers. Pictured is a pre-war Heavy Duty 38/44 with a humpback hammer (bobbed about 1/4" by a previous owner). When discussing a "Humpback" on a S&W we are NOT talking about the frame.


http://www.fototime.com/9C7C487770DB7D1/standard.jpg

[Phil DeGraves]

The gun on Gunbroker has a short action hammer on a gun that would have been manufactured with a long action, so I would say that the hammer is not original.
Notice the configuration of the hammer on the gun Saxon posted. That is a long action hammer where the spur is near the top of the hammer. In a short action, the hammer spur comes out of the middle of the hammer.