[JimmerJammerMrK]

Bottom line: I'm turning 21 soon and I'd like to purchase a pistol before late January. My budget for the gun is $500-$600 (not including ammo, accessories, etc). I'd like to buy new. I've narrowed my caliber down to 45 ACP. (I'll most likely be buying a .22 pistol as well, but that's another thread).

I'm stuck between a few different models, in particular the Springfield Armory XD, the Springfield Armory GI 45 1911, the Glock 21, and the Glock 30. I've shot Glocks before and have liked them. I realize the two styles are pretty different, I'm just looking for input from people who own/have owned both. Is the GI 45 a quality gun? I know it's relatively inexpensive compared to other 1911s. Which will last longer, shoot better, fail less, and be the most dependable? This will be a plinker/HD/SHTF gun. Size doesn't matter as it will not be a CCW gun. Also, I live in CA so magazine capacity isn't too much of an issue.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[acmax95]

I would go with the 1911. I have held Glocks and did not care for them, and I have not handled an XD. I do own a 1911 (though it isn't a Springfield) and would get rid of my other pistols long before parting with it. Especially since you don't intend to carry I think the 1911 is a great choice.

[KINGMAX]

Glock 21

[OFT]

1911

[Highland Ranger]

All good choices. I'd lean toward the XD and 1911, and for a first gun, a 1911 seems right. Not familiar with that particular model though - I'd do some research on it to make sure it is reliable.

[foghornl]

Residing right now in "Foggy's Artillery Locker"

SA Mdl 1911's 2
Ruger KP-90 1
Springfield XD 0
Glock models 0

[Walkalong]

XD, 1911.

No particular order, although I have one XD, and several 1911's. ;)

[FLoppyTOE]

All great guns, but glocks feel akward to me. I own a couple xd's and they are the cats a**. However, you can never go wrong with a 1911, and actually I own that springfield 1911A1 and have no complaints

[FoMoGo]

CZ-97 B


Jim

[Corporal K]

Glock 21 - hands down.

1911's are way overrated - and yes, I owned a Springfield Loaded Model in the past.

[AllisonDT]

Since you are limited to 10 rounds in California, I'd go with the Glock 30. There's no need for the larger G21 since you can't take advantage of the added 3 rounds in the magazine. Some folks say they shoot the G30 better than they do the G21 anyway.

That's my pick! :p

[Geno]

Colt 1911A1

[Schofield3]

I’m partial to the 1911 :D

[rondog]

Corporal K is wrong, it's GLOCKS that are overrated. Start with a 1911, the Springer GI is a fine choice.

[BlindJustice]

I have a full size, S&W 1911 Stainless Steel w/fixed Novak sights.
I'm going on 40+ years of being partial to the 1911. If you can swing it
the Springfield Armory Mil-Spec has better sights, as well as
the enlarged/lowered ejection port. These two additions are worth
more than getting an SA G.I. and then modifiying it.

Also, I have a S&W 625 5" Bbl. .45 ACP revolver - it uses full moon
clips for extracting the rimless ACP case. My favorite revolver, great fun
at the range and firm recoil, but it is the N/Large frame Double Action
Shooting requires practice.

I got the 625 for just over $600 The S&W 1911 was almost $800

I'm thinking the next .45 ACP will be an Officers frame but I don't
think those are CA Compliant.

Randall

[bluemalibu]

I love the slabside 1911, having humped the hills of Korea and served with the AMTU with it... but I think that a glock or XD would more quickly be mastered by a newer shooter.

Hey B/J.. I must have been typing while you posted. If you're like me, you too will love the Officer's ACP. Luckily for me, I purchased my stainless version years before the Great State of Confusion got stupid.

Schofield3... Do you too have a family connection to the break-top? I have only been able to afford the $1000 Uberti 45 Long Colt up to now. ...some day though!

[Dogbite]

I have owned Glocks. I have also had the GI 45, and their loaded model. The GI 1911 is a great gun, mine was accurate and dependable. Now, as for your pick, I would go with the Glock model 30. They are incredible. 10 rounds of 45, and they are light, very accurate, and pretty much bullet proof.

[Quoheleth]

I respect Glock reliability & functionality.
But I don't care for them personally.

I very much like XDs. It was a toss-up between the XD and Smith MP when buying a new 9mm this spring. I did the MP becuse the adjustable backstrap made it a bit more comfortable, and the rebate plus mag deal was the kicker. Have you checked out the MP?

And I love my Springer GI.

So, I guess my preference would go: GI, MP, XD. Glock doesn't make my cut.

Q

[ulflyer]

Although 1911's are my favorite because I'm an old fart that came up with these type guns long before the plastic's ever came out. I love to take em apart and clean and mess with them. The heritage, tradition, etc. Ocassionally you get a 1911 that is tempermental and requires some fine tuning. If piddling with them is not your thing, and you fully expect a gun to fire right out of the box every time, then you may well like the Glock better. Suggest you find some friends, or a gun range that rents, and shoot both type. Whichever one you decide on initially, you can always add the other to your
collection later on. Let us know how you make out. :)

[S&Wfan]

Which will last longer, shoot better, fail less, and be the most dependable? This will be a plinker/HD/SHTF gun. Size doesn't matter as it will not be a CCW gun. Also, I live in CA so magazine capacity isn't too much of an issue.


1. LAST LONGER?
2. SHOOT BETTER?
3. FAIL LESS?
4. BE MORE DEPENDABLE?
5. SIZE DOESN'T MATTER?
6. MAGAZINE CAPACITY NOT AN ISSUE?

You are the perfect candidate for a .45ACP S&W REVOLVER!

It will outlive you.
They shoot "boring" one-hole groups at 10 yards and roll coke cans easily at 50 yards.
They will NEVER fail you . . . the old saying goes "Six fer SHURE!"
They go BANG when you pull the trigger . . . no safety to forget about flipping.
AND . . . they can be reloaded by some of us just as fast in competitions as we can reload our Glocks and 1911s!

Check out the S&W 625 or 25-2 .45 ACP revolvers!!!

SERIOUSLY!

No . . . you can't have my customized, chopped barrel S&W 25-2. It is the very last handgun I'd ever get rid of . . . and the one I want in my hand if trouble ever comes my way.


http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/282194/2256768new25-2plusmoonclips-edited.jpg

and . . . after a day at the range, wearing Hogue "rubbers." Note the "boring" accuracy of even my short barreled one! . . .

(ten yards, standing and unsupported)

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/277718/2217523IMG2446.JPG

[Schofield3]

Do you too have a family connection to the break-top? I have only been able to afford the $1000 Uberti 45 Long Colt up to now. ...some day though!

Haha, I wish….nope no connection, just love the model 3’s and same here I’m waiting to find an original in decent condition, they certainly are expensive!

[D-Man]

Out of the choices you mentioned, I'd go with the XD. The polymer guns will be easier to maintain, and to me the XD grip is much more comfortable to handle than the Glocks.

While 1911's are great, the stock GI might be missing some things you really want to have, like better sights, a true beavertail, etc. Sure, you can add these items as you go along, but think if you do want a 1911 with the bells and whistles, you're better off starting with at least the Springfield Mil-Spec, or the Loaded if you can stretch your budget even more.

[psp7304]

Glock 30SF

[wtfd661]

Since you said you have shot Glocks and liked them then for you I would recommend the Glock 30, 10 rds, good size and if needed you can conceal it (I know you said that wasn't a consideration but still an option).

[Texasred]

Get a Glock, great aftermarket support, great magazines that are affordable and the gun will last nearly till the world ends.
You know it will work and you don't mind the grip. Regardless of someones minute bad experience, this gun will feed anything and the bbl will last forever.

[Ringtail]

Never shot a glock. I have shot most of the XD variants in 9mm .40 and .45 and they seem like good guns to me. I would feel well armed with any of the guns you listed. But my 1st choice would be a 1911. There are lots of reasons why I would put the 1911 1st, but the most important is the single action trigger. Without much trouble you can get a 4lb. trigger with no discernable take up. For me the trigger is the most important component of accurate shooting and the 1911 has (or can have if you make it so) the best trigger of all the common autos.

As far as magizine cap it should never be an issue. If you can't solve you problem with 8 rounds you probally won't be able to solve it at all.

To sum it up a plastic gun will serve you well right out of the box, but a 1911 has the potential to be something really special. Just one man's opinion.

By the way, someone has a really nice .45 revolver!

[BlindJustice]

Nice 25 S&WFan - usually stags? what's the barrel cut to 3" ?

My 625 has the Master Revovler Action Job from the S&W Perf. Ctr.
with Guy Hogue full profile finger grooves/checkered Rosewood grips.
so, add $275 to the purchase price. If I had to choose tween it and
the S&W 1911 I have for 50 yard shots, it would be the 625 I'd pick up.

What's the J-frame in the pic? I've got a MOdel 60-15 3" adj. rear
sight, & plain ramp front with a dab of yellow epoxy paint across
the middle of the ramp.

Randall

[Ringer]

I like Glocks but the G21 is huge. In .45 I'd lean towards S&W M&P or maybe an XD.

[samurai]

Glock30

[Kind of Blued]

Due to the rapid descent of the sky as of late, I'd go with one of the (cheaper) higher-capacity guns and spare mags. You'll likely be able to get a 1911 any other time.

I'd go with the XD just because the G21 is designed for gorillas. I gripped a G19 and an XD 45 recently and the XD was still (despite being a 45 instead of a 9mm) more slender and comfortable in the grip. A 45 Glock can only be worse. But those are my hands, so I recommend groping them yourself.

P.S. Budsgunshop has XD45 Compacts for $499 and Springfield is running a "two free magazine" promotion. Check their website.

[Blacksmoke]

Start with and master the 1911. Then if you move on to the Springfield XP or other more modern design you have something to evaluate the new gun against that is kind of an industry standard for about 97 years.

[mfcmb]

I recently bought my first .45 after comparison shopping extensively. I wanted a full-size, DAO, semi-auto, so that knocked out 1911's, revolvers, and a bunch of other good guns. My primary choices ultimately boiled down to Glock, S&W M&P, and Springfield XD. They all seem to be solid choices. I found that the 4" ("service" model) Springfield XD fit my hand best, bought it, have put several hundred rounds through it, and am very happy with it. I'm confident it will be reliable, rugged, accurate and last forever. I'm very happy with my choice.

[Blacksmoke]

MFCB,
I have read and heard only great things about the Springfield XD in .45 ACP.

WHo know, maybe I will sell one or two 1911s and buy one?

[Hostile Amish]

I'd get the 1911, the Glock feels like a water gun and the XD feels similar.

[AJMBLAZER]

Bottom line: I'm turning 21 soon and I'd like to purchase a pistol before late January. My budget for the gun is $500-$600 (not including ammo, accessories, etc). I'd like to buy new. I've narrowed my caliber down to 45 ACP. (I'll most likely be buying a .22 pistol as well, but that's another thread).

I'm stuck between a few different models, in particular the Springfield Armory XD, the Springfield Armory GI 45 1911, the Glock 21, and the Glock 30. I've shot Glocks before and have liked them. I realize the two styles are pretty different, I'm just looking for input from people who own/have owned both. Is the GI 45 a quality gun? I know it's relatively inexpensive compared to other 1911s. Which will last longer, shoot better, fail less, and be the most dependable? This will be a plinker/HD/SHTF gun. Size doesn't matter as it will not be a CCW gun. Also, I live in CA so magazine capacity isn't too much of an issue.

Thanks in advance for your help.


Beg, borrow, and bribe to test fire the guns you will be selecting from. I'm a bit of a military historian and bought a 1911A1 first thing but have considered other handguns. Glocks just don't work for me and my hands. If they did fit me better I'd probably have bought one already. Rugers have a good reputation and double as a hell of a blunt instrument if some sort of malfunction should happen. My buddy has a XD .45 and it is a nice piece.

As for the 1911's I'll be the heretic and suggest you check out the Armscor/Rock Island Armory M1911A1 series. You can get their Tactical version for under $500 if you look around and their plain GI model like mine for $350 without looking too hard. They have a good reputation and their US customer service is excellent...not that I've needed to use it with mine.
Also remember GI = usually 230gr FMJ only, small hard to see sights (and I'm only 30), narrow safety and biting hammer while the milspec/tactical models tend to have the modern improvements in those areas.

[Prepster]

In my experience the Springfield GI is accurate and easy on the hands, although sights are a little small. I respect the rock solid reliability of Glocks and XDs, but they sure look hideous next to a stainless GI.

[eldon519]

It seems to me that for a newcomer looking to buy their first weapon with the intent of building a collection in the future, Glocks have fallen a little bit down the latter. For the longest time, they were the only competitively priced quality polymer. Now there are a variety of polymer pistols at the same price with the same quality and reliability who have taken innovation further, particularly in the realm of ergonomics where Glocks are rather lacking. The biggest detriment I see with Glocks is that they have a significantly different grip angle which for me personally makes it awkward to go back and forth between it and just about any other main brand of semi-automatic pistol. XDs, MPs (by the way, I think you should seriously consider the S&W M&P .45), HKs, and 1911s are all much more interchangeable.

It's one man's measly opinion, but while Glock used to be the king of polymers, their failure to keep up with advancements in ergonomics has cut into their market domination.

[possum]

i am a huge xd fan and i own 2, i am also a fan of the 1911, sa 1911's in particular. i would say for your first gun get something easy to shoot and maintain, and for that i would say go with the xd. i am not a fan of glocks in .45

[Big Daddy Grim]

XD simply for all the accessories it comes with and if you get the tactical barrel they are excellent shooting guns mine is very accurate but don't get me wrong I love 1911's but for easy cleanin and breaking down plus the money you can't beat the XD.

[WardenWolf]

Get a Ruger P90. Accurate, very reliable, American-made, with good safety features. Single/double action with thumb safety is a lot safer and more convenient than either an old-fashioned single action or other quirky mechanisms like Glocks use. It's a simple, reliable, solid gun that's a major step over the standard 1911. It is, at its heart, a 1911, but with the added bonus of single/double operation.

[M203Sniper]

http://www.davesguns.com/serverpics/FirearmsPage/SpringfieldPW9108L-01.jpg

[ZeBool]

If limited in mag capacity, most definately the 1911. Other wise I would personally go with the XD, as it shares the same grip angle as the 1911, but has greater capacity.

[f4t9r]

Those models can be rented at the range ,you could try them out. My choice is the 1911

[hawk45]

Go feel them all.. here is what I have experience with:

Glock 21
Glock 21sf (slimmer grip - prefer)
Glock 30 - Ultimate compact 45 (10 rounds)
Springfield Mil-Spec - Classic excellence
Kimber Compact - Great single stack 1911df
Sig 220 - A truely great .45 built like a tank.

I don't think there is a bad one out there.. the XD's and M&P's get great reviews too.. Just go with what you like.

[Hawk]

Definitely try before buy if at all possible.

I had a Glock 21 - very servicable but the ergonomics are "unique". Some folks take to them, some don't. Trigger is workable but spongy.

1911s - To me, these seemed easiest to gain proficiency with due to the agreeable trigger. The STI Spartan is in your range as are a number of other choices.

I never tried the XD-45 or M&P but their users seem a happy lot.

Since this is in "general handguns" you were bound to get a revolver nomination. I have a 325 and really like the thing. I shoot it more than my mutant-1911. But. I have to. Getting proficient with a revolver's double action trigger is an ordeal and a half if you're used to a 1911.

The general consensus is that double action is the only way to run a defensive revolver and the trigger is long and heavy. Unlike an autostuffer, it's difficult to do much to improve it without compromising, sometimes severely, the "six for sure" mantra. A defensive revolver should be able to pop S&B and Fiocchi and messing with the trigger will get you into a club where people discuss "Federal primers only, seated just so" which isn't "six for sure". You might find yourself celebrating two out of six lighting off. Autostuffer triggers can be tuned without compromising reliabiltiy - this isn't the case with revolvers.

The revolver is an excellent choice if you're planning on putting a LOT of time into getting proficient with the beast - it's fun doing so but it'll rack up a sum of money in a hurry. Moon clips are cheap but the appliance to load the things isn't - it's probably a "wash" with a couple of Wilson mags.

I prefer my 325 to my 1911 for fun shooting but I don't know if I'd recommend it as a "first firearm". Then again, if you're just starting off, you haven't been "spoiled" by an autostuffer trigger and might take right to it...

[Agent-J]

glock 30 is nice, but it has a weird magazine that doubles as a pinky rest. with this setup the grip is a hair too short and the mag pinches my pinky.

the XD45c is essentially the same thing as the glock 30, but the mags are more flush and it fits in my hand just like a glock 19.

[Pilot]

Springfield Armory Milspec 1911A1. Better sights than the G.I. and other nice features like a bevelled mag well and lowered/flared ejection port.

[Irish Maddog]

I own a xD .45, having shot literally hundreds of different pistols on staff "artillery" days, and I think it's a perfect starter gun. Good feel, combines the point-and-aim of the 1911 with the Glock's safety features and I absolutely love the tactile features that tell me when it's cocked and when there is a round in the chamber.

My friends have all fired the xD and one cop buddy and one military buddy, after firing mine and hearing me rave about, promptly went out and bought their own. One got an xD 9mm, another got a brand new XD-M, which I envy greatly. These are some of the most comfortable, most safe, most enjoyable pistols you'll ever fire.

xD all the way!

[gepreston]

Not too sure who else said this but I’d go to a range that rents and try as many as you can! I’ve got a few 1911s and I’ve shot several different “plastic” guns. I like them all but I LOVE my old Colts! Some of the Glocks had heavier recoil (I think it was a 36, don’t remember for sure) but I’d still buy one if it came at a decent price. On a different note, I wouldn’t limit myself to “new” guns only. You can find some great deals on “slightly used” guns with “handling” marks (read a scratch or two). I just bought a nice newer S&W Model 36 for my wife at a pawn shop for $265. That left enough money to by a few boxes of ammo and a used 870 for the camper all for under $500.

[S&Wfan]

Blindjustice wrote
Nice 25 S&WFan - usually stags? what's the barrel cut to 3" ?

It was converted by a great gunsmith in the '80s. The barrel is 3 1/4" and it has the most incredible trigger (both double and single action) I've ever encountered.

My 625 has the Master Revovler Action Job from the S&W Perf. Ctr.
with Guy Hogue full profile finger grooves/checkered Rosewood grips.
so, add $275 to the purchase price. If I had to choose tween it and
the S&W 1911 I have for 50 yard shots, it would be the 625 I'd pick up.

Glad someone has weighted in who shoots a bunch and knows what the gun rag pushers don't tell folks in their quest to sell new jam-o-matic bottom feeders to the public for their advertisers!!!;)

What's the J-frame in the pic? I've got a MOdel 60-15 3" adj. rear
sight, & plain ramp front with a dab of yellow epoxy paint across
the middle of the ramp.

Randall

It is a nearly "new" 1964 nickel-plated Model 36. Shoots good too! Here's the first cylinder of wadcutter I ran through the gun (standing/unsupported @ 10 yards . . . into a small 1" black square target. Who says snubbies ain't accurate?!!:

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/277718/2248828Firsttarget.jpg


BTW, my wife loves her '71 Model 37 Airweight J-frame with a 3" tube. She shoots it real good too!


BACK TO THE .45s . . .

This is the accuracy of my short tubed 25-2 .45ACP revolver. (another picture showing it's typical accuracy) BORINGLY accurate, ragged one hole, five-shot groups . . . standing/unsupported at 10 yards . . . and it launches coke cans in the air at 75 yards with high consistency too . . . and NEVER jams!
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/277718/2216017M25-2.jpg

I hope the original poster won't waste his money on somebody's "FOR SALE" .45 auto that jams . . . or a cheap new one that won't be what he needs. I hope he'll consider a good, used S&W 625 moon clipped revolver!

Extremely accurate, extremely reliable . . . and extremely smart.

T.

PS: Stags usually? Yes, now that I use 'em with Tyler T-grips. However, when competing in the "gun games" I'll revert to Hogue "Goodyears" to keep the revolver properly indexed better in my hand . . . shooting double action.

PPS: If the original poster opts for a .45 auto, I hope he saves and gets a quality gun! It's got to go bang every time, have a great trigger for consistent accuracy . . . and be accurate too from the bench!

Still, I'd rather enter a fight with my 25-2, than my very reliable, but high dollar Kimber officer's sized .45ACP CCW gun (shown) . . . or my good old Colt Combat Elite full size custom limited gun used in many a "gun game."

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/246/246167/folders/233364/20707202X.45acp.jpg

SIX FER SHURE!

[CPshooter]

I know you are getting a ton of 1911 votes, but you really should do yourself a favor and get the XD.45 compact. The 1911 is a great and timeless design, and probably the most associated handgun with the .45acp. I still don't think it's a good first handgun though. They are generally more picky with JHP ammo and sometimes need some "tweaking" to make them run 100%. Especially if you are going to get a cheaper one, I think your $500 dollars should be spent elsewhere.

I've owned Glocks, XDs, a P99, a USPc, etc. In my opinion, the XD is the best overall polymer design and cannot be beat for the money. The XD .45 is an engineering marvel if you ask me. The compact gives you 10+1 rounds with the shorter magazine and a plentiful 13+1 rounds with the included extended magazine. This is all in a rather compact and amazingly comfortable package. The grip circumference is a tad larger than the 9mm and .40 models, but still a really good size. I find that almost anyone, large or small hands, likes the feel of the XD.45. I also love the consistent, SA-like trigger pull and the robust construction of this design. XDs are kind of heavy for a polymer pistol though. About the same weight as a lightweight (alloy-framed) commander 1911.

I looooove Glocks. One of my favorite guns that I own is the Glock 19. But the .45s, with the exception of the g36 "slimline" model, are chunky, poorly designed pistols IMO. There was no point in designing the slide or the grip so insanely fat on the 30 and 21. These are the models that give Glock the "brick" reputation. The smaller 9/.40/.357 guns are what Glock perfection is all about.

I'm just ranting here, but seriously for the money, get an XD. You won't be disappointed. Trust me.

If you want to pay more, H&K and Sig offer some very nice .45s. I personally like the H&K .45 Compact Tactical with the threaded barrel. Sweet gun. I wish I got this instead of the USP compact .40 I bought new in January.

[dispatch]

Look very closely at Ruger P90. Always in my desk drawer because it has earned my absolute trust.