Obama asks gun questions on his application for employment.


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damien
November 13, 2008, 04:36 PM
CNN: "Want to work for Obama? Get ready to spill all . If you want to work for President-elect Barack Obama's administration, be prepared to spill almost everything there is to know about yourself. The Obama transition team is sending a seven-page, 63-item questionnaire to job candidates, with questions on everything from family members to gifts and loans"

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/11/13/obamaquestionnaire.pdf.pdf

This is a doosey and it's interesting to read. It would take a day or more to fill this out properly and make all the necessary attachments. Once the attachments are made, it would probably run 100 pages. But only one question concerns us.

59. Do you or any members of your family own a gun? If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage.

What do you think? Really, compared to the other questions, it isn't all that intrusive. For me, it would require another two-page attachment, though.

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No Fear
November 13, 2008, 04:41 PM
If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed?

Now I want to apply for a job in the obama admin JUST so I cay say my guns aren't registered and watch the response. I WANT to be told I can't be hired because I didn't register my guns even though registration doesn't exist in most states.

esq_stu
November 13, 2008, 04:45 PM
59. Do you or any members of your family own a gun? If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage.

:barf:sick sick sick

I know who I'm never working for. Anyway, why does anyone need a job any more?

Dain Bramage
November 13, 2008, 04:47 PM
Yes, No, Not Applicable, No.

Micropterus
November 13, 2008, 04:49 PM
I know who I'm never working for. Anyway, why does anyone need a job any more?


Hahah, so true - just look him in the face and ask for a handout

highlander 5
November 13, 2008, 04:53 PM
I call BS on this.

armoredman
November 13, 2008, 04:53 PM
I don't own anything illegal, end of story. Actually, I divested from firearms into fuzzy pink bunnies.

TeamPrecisionIT
November 13, 2008, 04:54 PM
I know that this injection of logic might be a hindrance to the purpose of this thread, but honestly, that's par the course for any federal job, especially ones that require a security clearance (as I'm guessing this one will).

Damian

raz-0
November 13, 2008, 04:57 PM
Some of the questions seem downright odd, some of them seem within the realm of sane for a job with a security clearance.

Most of the stupid seems to be the idea that they can insulate themselves from anything that might be able to be percieved as questionable or scnadalous. It's a waste of time.

damien
November 13, 2008, 04:59 PM
I call BS on this.

OK, you call BS and even news outlets make mistakes (Palin, Africa, just a country) but it is still the top story on CNN. I think that if if it wasn't true, Obama would have instructed his minions at CNN to take it down by now. I mean that only half sarcastically..

jakemccoy
November 13, 2008, 05:04 PM
I doubt Obama knows, or wants to know, anything about this document. This document and associated procedure falls within the "delegated and don't bother me" category. This doc is probably 5 degrees of separation away from being on Obama's radar. Obama won't be instructing anything about this document.

damien
November 13, 2008, 05:09 PM
Of course not, he would delegate someone to delegate someone to tell his minions at CNN to take down the document... :rolleyes:

GRIZ22
November 13, 2008, 05:10 PM
This doc is probably 5 degrees of separation away from being on Obama's radar.


True but it shows the thinking of the people he trusted to draft it.

expvideo
November 13, 2008, 05:13 PM
...even though registration doesn't exist in most states.
Yet. Obama just doesn't want to have to re-make the application once there is. :P

ggarfield965
November 13, 2008, 05:16 PM
I say this is all Dick's fault. Now politicians are afraid other politicians will shoot them. I guess I know one guy that won't be working for Obama:evil::neener:

RPCVYemen
November 13, 2008, 05:24 PM
t would take a day or more to fill this out properly and make all the necessary attachments. Once the attachments are made, it would probably run 100 pages. But only one question concerns us.

If you read the whole questionnaire, the folks doing the screening are looking for any information that might come out later and embarrass the administration. They ask 11 questions about child support and alimony, 4 about immigration status of domestic help. In addition, they ask about former live in lovers, health personal enemies.

It looks to me like that particular question is to avoid a headline in the future about an appointee who neglected to maintain registration of a firearm in a state that requires registration. I can imagine a lapsed registration causing an embarrassing headline.

Mike

rbernie
November 13, 2008, 05:36 PM
honestly, that's par the course for any federal job, especially ones that require a security clearance (as I'm guessing this one will).I have had a US Government clearance for almost twenty five years, and I have never been asked to disclose whether I owned firearms.

It looks to me like that particular question is to avoid a headline in the future about an appointee who neglected to maintain registration of a firearm in a state that requires registration. I can imagine a lapsed registration causing an embarrassing headline. Absolutely true. The point is that this incoming administration appears to consider firearms ownership to be a potential embarrassment.

Czar
November 13, 2008, 05:48 PM
I know that this injection of logic might be a hindrance to the purpose of this thread, but honestly, that's par the course for any federal job, especially ones that require a security clearance (as I'm guessing this one will).



Firearms ownership NEVER came up on my background investigation until we got to talking about hobbies. My investigator was a very pro-gun and apparantly it didn't adversly affect any job opportunities :)

jakemccoy
November 13, 2008, 05:54 PM
Of course not, he would delegate someone to delegate someone to tell his minions at CNN to take down the document...

Just as all the 43 other Presidents would have done hopefully.

Actually, this document and procedure would never reach the delegation table hopefully.

RPCVYemen
November 13, 2008, 06:00 PM
The point is that this incoming administration appears to consider firearms ownership to be a potential embarrassment.

The question actually asks about lapsed registration in a state (or city?) that requires registration and personal injury or property damage. I can see that the incoming administration would not want to wake up to a headline that some member had a technically illegal weapon - or a headline that a member of the administration had unintentionally injured someone with a weapon.

Would I give you too big a hint as to why they might want know about personal injury if I called it the "Dick Cheney" question?

It looks to me like questionnaire is a litany of recent scandals or embarrassing incidents from previous administrations. Nannies without paying taxes, sexual scandals, etc.

You are of course free to layer any paranoia you want to on top of the question. :)

Mike

RPCVYemen
November 13, 2008, 06:13 PM
I have had a US Government clearance for almost twenty five years, and I have never been asked to disclose whether I owned firearms.

But you did have to answer all of the other questions on the form being discussed provide details of child support and alimony agreements, etc.?

This form is not about a security clearance - it's about people who may potentially be in the public eye under intense media scrutiny.

Can you imagine Rush or O'Reilly or any of that crew if turned out that someone in the Obama administration had broken the law by neglecting to register a handgun 10 years ago? You know they'd go hog wild with a story like that. Rush would demand a Special Prosecutor at the very least!

Can you tell me with a straight face that every right wing wacko on radio or on Fox wouldn't be on that story like that like stink on poop?

And you and I both know that THR itself if a member of Obama's cabinet were found to have violated a firearms regulation at some point in the past, right?

Mike

jakemccoy
November 13, 2008, 06:19 PM
I agree with RPCYemen. Nowadays, most folks are into some pretty wild things. Hiring somebody who "looks" like their past is scandal-free is fine if you're running a construction company. However, these questions are par for this particular course and are necessary.

RPCVYemen
November 13, 2008, 06:34 PM
However, these questions are par for this particular course and are necessary.

Yep. I know darn few people who could face 4 years of intense media scrutiny and not have at least one embarrassing incident come up. I sure I couldn't, and I don't know many people who could.

To tell the truth, I am more creeped out by people who have never done anything embarrassing while drunk or people who never went to a college party where someone was smoking pot than I am by someone who has outgrown a fairly colorful past. I have a hard time trusting people who have been squeaky clean since they were 5 years old. Maybe that's just me. :)

Mike

GEM
November 13, 2008, 06:40 PM
For my curiousity - I've seen versions of this form floating around - where did they come from?

The change.gov site doesn't have such and speaks to a process later.

RPCVYemen
November 13, 2008, 06:53 PM
For my curiousity - I've seen versions of this form floating around - where did they come from?


Here's the CNN story on the forms. My guess is that if you are the kind of person they are looking for, you have already arranged to get one of these forms. :) These are political appointment jobs.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/13/transition.questionnaire/index.html



Mike

Limeyfellow
November 13, 2008, 09:05 PM
Firearms ownership NEVER came up on my background investigation until we got to talking about hobbies. My investigator was a very pro-gun and apparantly it didn't adversly affect any job opportunities

To be honest, I don't think you ever applied to be Secretary of State either, since this vetting process of questions is designed for senior administration personal and is just one part of the process. The top secret access questions themselves number closer to over a thousand. You not expected to pass everything with clear answers either. I am quite sure they make a difference between "I once called the president an idiot" to "I murdered and ate 14 children." It to provide measures ahead of time so you don't say appoint someone who only experience is to run horse shows to the head of FEMA.

What shocked me is how short the questionnaire is.

BBQLS1
November 14, 2008, 09:59 AM
Honestly, all the hellfire any potential Obama employee (or any presidential appointed employee) is going to get, Obama has to know everything about them just to avoid a "GOTCHA!"

GEM
November 14, 2008, 10:12 AM
Here's the CNN story on the forms. My guess is that if you are the kind of person they are looking for, you have already arranged to get one of these forms. These are political appointment jobs.



I'm applying for the ambassador to Vulcan.

RPCVYemen
November 14, 2008, 10:14 AM
Honestly, all the hellfire any potential Obama employee (or any presidential appointed employee) is going to get, Obama has to know everything about them just to avoid a "GOTCHA!"

And since the Feds may be dragged into the battles over the DC City Council's intransigence vis-a-vis Heller, the last thing Obama wants to find in the Washington Post on Sunday morning is a headline the member of his administration delegated to deal with that issue has a technically illegal handgun. :)

Mike

rbernie
November 14, 2008, 10:18 AM
To be honest, I don't think you ever applied to be Secretary of State either, since this vetting process of questions is designed for senior administration personal and is just one part of the process.No, but I've traveled to fun and exciting places with some of them (and their boss and their fellow Cabinet members), um, a few times.

I guess I object to the wordsmithing of the question, in that it doesn't just ask the pertinent questions ('have you failed to renew your IL registration') but asks about the applicants firearms ownership in general.

Say what you want, but words DO in fact matter (especially in DC) and the words that are chosen often reveal the attitudes of the writer.

RPCVYemen
November 14, 2008, 10:37 AM
I guess I object to the wordsmithing of the question, in that it doesn't just ask the pertinent questions ('have you failed to renew your IL registration') but asks about the applicants firearms ownership in general.

Uhm, so they should have a different application for every jurisdiction in the US so they can ask the "pertinent" question?

The first question is to allow folks to skip the rest - "If you don't own a gun, skip to next part."

Mike

rbernie
November 14, 2008, 10:41 AM
Which would have just as easily be accomplished by asking, 'Have you ever failed to register or re-register a firearm in any jurisdiction that requires it, or otherwise failed to carry or store any firearms in contradition of Federal, state, or local regulations?"

Asking for complete ownership information is absurd, and it's cultural trolling.

BBQLS1
November 14, 2008, 10:52 AM
I didn't like the question either, but really with all the flack any president gets now a days would you expect to see anything different?

To be honest, I'm surprised it's not more pages.

RPCVYemen
November 14, 2008, 10:57 AM
Asking for complete ownership information is absurd, and it's cultural trolling.

Actually, the notion that there is a cultural war in the US is a distinctive right wing talk show phenomenon. Most folks who don't worship at the EIB shrine don't think we're in a culture war. Whatever else we disagree on, I think that we can both absolutely agree that Obama is not a right wing talk show host? :)

I think that Obama is a very careful, very prudent man. He is a methodical chess player from what I can tell. Clinton was brilliant politician - but really of the old southern rascal variety. I can imagine that sitting around with a bottle of Jack Daniels listening to Clinton tell stories about Arkansas politics would be a blast. That's not Obama - he is chess player who wants to be blindsided by absolutely nothing in his appointee's background.

Mike

Thin Black Line
November 14, 2008, 12:10 PM
I was filling out the online version of this form and when I got to #10 and
entered "Thin Black Line" for the alias on the Internet, it locked up and
I got an immediate email to every account saying "Application Denied".....

Odd1
November 14, 2008, 12:31 PM
That's starnge, I would assume these would be some type of GS/SES jobs.

I assumed they already had a very detailed and thourgh hiring process for these types of jobs already.

Never recall seeing these questions for a GS job. It is certainly not the form/computer program used for security clearences either.

Fisherman_48768
November 14, 2008, 12:42 PM
I personally think the BO team doesn't want any dissent within once the executive order to confiscate all guns is issued.

LouforAI
November 14, 2008, 12:45 PM
Give me a break:banghead: what would you expect from this :cuss: president to be?
Then again, this president is not even qualified to get secrete clearance for a gvmt job. and he's the president. What a joke:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

RPCVYemen
November 14, 2008, 02:41 PM
That's starnge, I would assume these would be some type of GS/SES jobs.

No these are specifically for the non-GS type jobs. I think they call these the "Plum Book" jobs. They are political appointments.

Mike

cobra2411
November 14, 2008, 02:47 PM
I've got lots of un-registered firearms here in PA... :D


PA-18
ß6111.4. Registration of Firearms.

Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term “firearm” shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

Tommygunn
November 14, 2008, 02:47 PM
I'm applying for the ambassador to Vulcan.

Can I come with you as an assistant? The people there are much saner than us humans....:D:p

RPCVYemen
November 14, 2008, 02:47 PM
Then again, this president is not even qualified to get secrete clearance for a gvmt job.

As the Commander-in-Chief, doesn't he have the power to make the qualifications for any DOD clearance whatever he wants?

There is a real point here - we elect the Command-in-Chief. They only clearance he needs is the will of the people as expressed through the ballot box (mediate by the Electoral College).

The fact that we have civilian control of the military is a good thing, an American thing.

Mike

Zangetsu
November 18, 2008, 09:17 PM
Just to point out how absurd this question is, let's replace one of the nouns and see what happens...

Do you or any members of your family own a car? If so, provide complete ownership and vehicle registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage.

The funny thing is, more people die and more stuff gets broken from auto accidents every year than firearm accidents BY FAR, not to mention how illegal drunk driving is but how many people either do it or have in the past, and yet once again, we're get stuck completely ignoring the rampant issues because they aren't nearly as politically exciting or (fulfilling apparently) as seeing just how much one can get away with using the bill of rights as a piece of toilet paper.

He's not even in office yet and already he's raising my blood pressure to unreasonable levels...

wyocarp
November 18, 2008, 10:19 PM
I wonder if I need to submit a picture of all the havoc I've been responsible for because of my shooting?

RPCVYemen
November 18, 2008, 10:23 PM
I wonder if I need to submit a picture of all the havoc I've been responsible for because of my shooting?

If the media can get ahold of it in the next 4 (or 8 :) ) years, Obama or his staff probably want to know about it right now. The man does not want to be blind-sided.

Mike

RPCVYemen
November 18, 2008, 10:27 PM
Do you or any members of your family own a car? ... and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage.

And that's a good analogy because the media got as much mileage out of Dick Cheney shooting his friend as they would have out of a fender bender?

And this administration is as likely to be pulled into the fray because the DC City Council is recalcitrant about the recent Supreme Court decision about the right of the residents of DC to keep and bear cars.

Good analogy, go the the head of the class. :)

Mike

chemist308
November 18, 2008, 11:42 PM
Okay, check NO and try to get hired. Then, help Nobama implement change however YOU like until you don't work for him anymore.

Zangetsu
November 19, 2008, 10:37 PM
And that's a good analogy because the media got as much mileage out of Dick Cheney shooting his friend as they would have out of a fender bender?

Imagine if instead of shooting his friend he ran him over, and if that's not spicy enough, let's say it was while driving under the influence. Either way they would have had a picnic with it, although I'm sure they preferred talking about how Cheney's shotgun is evil and makes him do bad things.

ZO6Vettever
November 20, 2008, 11:41 AM
What kind of app did Barry fill out for the Pres job???

RPCVYemen
November 20, 2008, 12:16 PM
What kind of app did Barry fill out for the Pres job???

I think that one was called an election. He passed with flying colors. :)

Mike

Geezer Glide
November 20, 2008, 12:50 PM
I got this email from South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint a few minutes ago:



www.jimdemint.com
Dear Friends -

If you were worried about Democrats in Congress and President-elect Barack Obama trampling your individual rights, you were right to be concerned. Recent news outlets are reporting that President-elect Obama is requiring Administration job applicants to state whether they or members of their family own guns.

Question #59, which appears on the Obama employment questionnaire reads as follows:

"Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage."

Senator DeMint thinks that it is wrong for President-elect Obama to ask job applicants whether they or members of their family own guns. Millions of law-abiding Americans own firearms and they should not be discriminated against. The questionnaire already seeks information about illegal activity so there is no reason to ask this question unless the Obama Administration plans to use it to discriminate based on lawful activity.

To fight this bias against gun owners, Senator DeMint will seek to enact legislation prohibiting this type of discrimination.

Barack Obama promised change and this is proof positive that we are going to see some of the most liberal change in our nationís history. We cannot sit back and let that happen. Senator DeMint plans to fight everyday on the frontlines so that our voices will still be heard. We hope you will consider joining our team by clicking here.

Itís going to be a tough fight and itís going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better, but we can weather this storm and bring common-sense back to Washington.

We hope we can count on your support because Senator DeMint canít do it alone. Just click here.

Sincerely,


DeMint Campaign Team


P.S. Ė As you know, Senator DeMint has been a strong advocate for the common sense, conservative ideas that South Carolinians support. Ideas like reforming our broken federal spending process, fighting to develop Americaís energy resources, and opposing the $700 billion dollar bailout of bad business decisions and failed government housing policy. The good news: his work is not going unnoticed. Today, Roll Call announced that Senator DeMint has been nominated as one of the 5 Most Valuable Players in the Senate . Click here to read the full story!

RPCVYemen
November 20, 2008, 01:04 PM
At least we can be clear that Senator DeMint has a strong grasp of the separation of powers and doesn't pander to public opinion.

Mike

wyocarp
November 20, 2008, 10:29 PM
What kind of app did Barry fill out for the Pres job???

I think that one was called an election. He passed with flying colors.


It was the biggest snow job in the history of the world.

doc540
November 21, 2008, 03:24 PM
Living Large In Lawyer Land

The gun-related applicant questions serve several purposes for the new administration, not the least of which is knowing where his appointees fall within the impending, new firearms legislation.

Other than that, it's an obvious CYA process.

XD-40 Shooter
November 21, 2008, 08:13 PM
What is Obama so worried about, his Vice President owns 2 shotguns and a Baretta, I'm assuming that one is a 9mm. Joe Biden is the worst kind of creature, gun owner and gun control champion, elitist attitude toward us peasants.:fire:

koja48
November 21, 2008, 08:34 PM
Reckon I'd rather keep a job scooping-up dog-fruit with my bare hands than apply, no matter what he's paying . . . but I WOULD like to see his birth certificate . . . always been quite fond of the Constitution.

NukemJim
November 22, 2008, 09:00 AM
his Vice President owns 2 shotguns and a Baretta, I'm assuming that one is a 9mm

From statements he has made to the press I believe the Beretta that he owns is a shotgun. A rather expensive one at that. (at least from my point of view :) )

See http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_premium_guns_main.htm

As always I could be wrong.

NukemJim

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