Clinging to God and Guns, illustrated


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Oleg Volk
November 14, 2008, 01:42 AM
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25824-2/clinging6213.jpg

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25821-2/clinging0310.jpg

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25809-2/clinging5360.jpg

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25812-2/cling6112.jpg

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25731-2/clinging8275.jpg

More images in this series on the way.

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Matt-J2
November 14, 2008, 01:45 AM
These are neat. IIRC you mentioned a Norse version previously. If so, I await it eagerly. :)

cliffy
November 14, 2008, 01:57 AM
We need more women on the firing line. Target shooting is still a male-dominated sport. cliffy

Oleg Volk
November 14, 2008, 02:14 AM
Except for the Enfield girl, the rest are all real gunnies.

RockyMtnTactical
November 14, 2008, 02:29 AM
I love it. Count me among those clinging to guns and religion, not ashamed to say it.

jakemccoy
November 14, 2008, 03:58 AM
Good stuff but...

The last woman looks like she's scared of everything and like she's fresh off of slitting her ex-boyfriend's tires.

Mp7
November 14, 2008, 04:23 AM
..the first combo gives you the impression, that Guns as well
as God are pretty beat up and outdated.....

(Religious Freedom is to protect the atheistīs right to
not believe and to protect them from real-world hassles
caused by people who choose to be religious.)

Ah well, politics & belief...hard topics.

PTK
November 14, 2008, 04:31 AM
The silencer muzzle has been photoshopped to appear larger. Why?

Other than that, VERY nice pictures. :)

Aran
November 14, 2008, 08:20 AM
The last woman looks like she's scared of everything and like she's fresh off of slitting her ex-boyfriend's tires.

Ah, new to neo-pagans are we?

30 cal slob
November 14, 2008, 08:27 AM
oleg, those are kewl. :p

10-41Trooper
November 14, 2008, 10:20 AM
I like the cross on the gun in the first pic. Pretty cool

NeoSpud
November 14, 2008, 10:23 AM
Hey, I know that rabbi! East Side Gun Shop, right?

Great photos, Oleg.

Maelstrom
November 14, 2008, 10:27 AM
Where do you find these people?

Do you just stick your head out of the window and yell, "Hey! I need a Jew and a Buddhist! Preferably armed!"

Of do you sit behind a desk and call to your secretary by intercom?

"Mr. Volk, there's a witch with a rifle here to see you."

"Thanks. Send her in, Janice."

Remind me to never take on Oleg in a scavenger hunt.

armoredman
November 14, 2008, 10:37 AM
Remind me to never take on Oleg in a scavenger hunt.

Sounds like a movie idea...

hso
November 14, 2008, 11:16 AM
I'm afraid it might be dated now after the election, but the image is good.

COMPNOR
November 14, 2008, 01:51 PM
I see only bad things from the second to last one. I know its innocent, but I think too many people would read too much into it.

rfwobbly
November 14, 2008, 02:12 PM
Hey! I find those pictures highly discriminatory.... since they left out the Haitian with their voodoo doll.... which, by the way, looks suspiciously like Michelle O.

withdrawn34
November 14, 2008, 03:24 PM
I see only bad things from the second to last one. I know its innocent, but I think too many people would read too much into it.

And unfortunately those would be the ignorant. The image in the background is of the crescent moon on the Pakistani flag. Definitely doesn't mean she's necessarily Muslim (not criticizing you - just talking about the folks that we're both talking about!)

Nonetheless, its images like this that help shatter ignorance, and those of us in this thread and forum who choose to ignore artificial boundaries and realize that we all aren't really that different, no matter what some people desperately still want to believe about society.

TAB
November 14, 2008, 03:28 PM
I really don't like the idea that gun owners are also "bible thumpers" Its simply not ture.

KBintheSLC
November 14, 2008, 03:31 PM
All I know is that we're going to need both gods and guns after what the libs are going to do to us.

I really don't like the idea that gun owners are also "bible thumpers" Its simply not true.

I agree... I am an atheist and proud of it.

Zoogster
November 14, 2008, 03:36 PM
I normaly like Oleg's work, and I appreciate some of the things that attempted to be done here, like incorporating black rifles and a silenced pistol.

I just find these images would not be good pro-gun representation. It is not the religions themselves, but rather everything coming together to give a rather strange result.

For those already in the shooting community it might not be too over the top. For those who are not the message might have the opposite of the desired effect.

ny32182
November 14, 2008, 03:57 PM
I remember that image in the second to last one being used before; probably mostly because that girl is strikingly beautiful...

Anyhow by "read something into it" I can only assume that means people will think "muslims with guns are bad". Well, first of all, personally I don't know enough by looking at that picture to know if it is conclusive that that girl would or would not be a muslim. Second, I think the key theme behind 90% of Oleg's work is that guns are for everyone.... certainly all American citizens. The girl to me, looks to be American.

BHP FAN
November 14, 2008, 04:39 PM
Personally,I am a Christian,and I do cling to my God and my guns.And,as one of the others already noted,we're likely to need both before we're done.By the way,I don't care if you pray to squid headed Cthulhu,that lil' Neo Pagen girl was CUTE.

edSky
November 14, 2008, 05:09 PM
Well, I thought the woman in the 2nd to last photo was beautiful. Not too thin, or fat, and an amazing smile and intelligent looking eyes. There are nice people to be found everywhere, for sure.

kludge
November 14, 2008, 05:12 PM
For the month prior to the election, I printed a sign an put it in the back window of my car.

AMERICA:

Clinging to our
GUNS and
RELIGION
since 1776

CountGlockula
November 14, 2008, 05:13 PM
Awesome as always.

Friendly observation on the Jewish one, can you add a magenta or yellow dot in their ears to portray ear protection? Even though the youth is shooting a .22lr...but still...safety first!

Thanks for sharing, God bless.

SSN Vet
November 14, 2008, 05:17 PM
#4 looks like it would make a great Hammas recruiting poster.

I don't think your going to get much constructive mileage off of this idea...

it can be very easilly manipulated by the anti-crowd to serve their agenda.

Arrogant Bastard
November 14, 2008, 06:05 PM
WiccaChick is cute. Give her a pair of glasses, and I'd be smitten.

takhtakaal
November 14, 2008, 06:10 PM
What, no Sikhs?

http://www.info-sikh.com/Dp022.jpg

stickitupyoura$$otto

Gunnerpalace
November 14, 2008, 06:33 PM
The First 3 are very good,

The 4th one I don't think will fly really well

The 5th Really wont fly well.


Prejudice
\/ Just being cautious with my assumption how the "American Idol" people could react to this.

bdickens
November 14, 2008, 07:23 PM
The First 3 are very good,

The 4th one I don't think will fly really well

The 5th Really wont fly well.


Prejudice. Sheer prejudice.

And the whole point, I think, is to try and break down prejudices.

baz
November 14, 2008, 08:01 PM
While I'm a Christian, and a pretty fundamentalist one at that, I understand, I think, why Oleg's including exemplars for religions that I would be uncomfortable supporting. (But, I'm also an American, who understands truly the "freedom of religion" part of the 1st Amendment, so I don't go around imposing my religious convictions on others.)

What struck me most was the absence of men. While I like how a lot of Oleg's posters show the importance of firearms for women, here I think there should be examples of men clinging to God and guns, as well. I'm feeling left out. :)

ArfinGreebly
November 14, 2008, 09:03 PM
Oleg is intentionally breaking the mold.

Bitter clingers = white male Protestant rednecks.

Therefore, show anything BUT white males.

Show those people who are typically targets of violence by virtue of gender, race, ethnicity, affiliations, and so on.

It makes it harder on a bigot when he has to make exceptions. "Well, I didn't mean women. Well, I didn't mean Moslems. Well, I didn't mean gays."

"So, then, just white Christian working-class males?"

One way or another, you have to break their "bigotry loop" and pictures that don't fit the default stereotype operate along that vector.

jrou111
November 15, 2008, 12:51 AM
I cling to my guns and Bibles - cause that's what the government is trying to take away! :banghead:

SeanSw
November 15, 2008, 01:03 AM
It looks like a tasty slice of American pie to me. I'm not afraid of their guns any more than I am afraid of their religion.

Mike U.
November 15, 2008, 01:46 AM
Where do you find these people?

Do you just stick your head out of the window and yell, "Hey! I need a Jew and a Buddhist! Preferably armed!"

Of do you sit behind a desk and call to your secretary by intercom?

"Mr. Volk, there's a witch with a rifle here to see you."

"Thanks. Send her in, Janice."

Remind me to never take on Oleg in a scavenger hunt.

That was hilarious! Thanks, Maelstrom! :D


Oleg is intentionally breaking the mold.

Bitter clingers = white male Protestant rednecks.

Therefore, show anything BUT white males.

Show those people who are typically targets of violence by virtue of gender, race, ethnicity, affiliations, and so on.

It makes it harder on a bigot when he has to make exceptions. "Well, I didn't mean women. Well, I didn't mean Moslems. Well, I didn't mean gays."

"So, then, just white Christian working-class males?"

One way or another, you have to break their "bigotry loop" and pictures that don't fit the default stereotype operate along that vector.


Very well said! And very true.

I find nothing wrong with any of those pictures. I can see where the anti's would get their undies all bunched up over them though.

I cling to my guns and Bibles - cause that's what the government is trying to take away!

That would make a good sig line for somebody. :D

Golden Hound
November 15, 2008, 10:22 AM
Everyone who's skeptical of the Muslim and Pagan pictures are missing a very important point.

These posters that Oleg created are not intended to be preaching to the choir (the choir being, us - gun people.) They are intended to demonstrate to antis that gun owners come in every variety of religion.

Antis are typically liberals. Liberals are typically falling all over themselves at every opportunity to advocate "tolerance" towards non-mainstream religions. Muslims, pagans, what have you. It's the liberals who would jump down your throat if you were ever to suggest that Islam is a dangerous religion, or that paganism or Satanism is a bad thing. It's the liberals, who make up the ranks of most of the antis, who have "tolerance" and "diversity" as their pet issues, and who are obsessed with fighting racial and religious bigotry.

So why on earth is anyone worried that the posters' intended audience is going to be upset at the sight of a (clearly non-terrorist) Muslim woman with an HK91 (with a slimline handguard that should be swapped out for a wide one, if it were mine, but anyway,) or a "pagan" woman with that same rifle (do they share it or something?)

If you suggested to the average left-winger that "all Muslims are terrorists" he or she would probably tear your face off in righteous anger. There's no reason to think that these people are going to be put off by those posters.

6_gunner
November 15, 2008, 10:53 AM
I like all of them. The gun culture needs to show its diversity. I would like to see a poster or billboard displaying all of those images, and perhaps other similar ones.

Aran
November 15, 2008, 11:39 AM
that girl is strikingly beautiful...

Beautiful? She's gorgeous

jerkface11
November 15, 2008, 11:57 AM
The muslim girl is freakin hot. How bout some more posters with her in em?

JImbothefiveth
November 15, 2008, 03:44 PM
Religious Freedom is to protect the atheistīs right to
not believe and to protect them from real-world hassles
caused by people who choose to be religious.)
Look up "Religious persecution".
Freedom of religion most certainly protects the right to have a religion.


AMERICA:

Clinging to our
GUNS and
RELIGION
since 1776
That could be my new signature.

the posters' intended audience
I'm guessing the poster is aimed at average Americans, not San Fransisco style leftists. I'm not saying that just because someone is muslim they're a terrorist, but I'm worried someone who buys into stereotypes could misinterpret this.

Quoheleth
November 15, 2008, 03:53 PM
I understand wanting to break down barriers & perceptions in using non-steryotype models & backgrounds.

That said, why not make a photo of the status quo? As a clergyman, I would identify with a man in a role as you portray.

A clergyMAN in a dark suit & clerical collar, Bible in weak-side hand with right hand gently pulling back the suit to show a CCW? Or, for that matter, a clergyMAN in clerical shirt on the firing line (I do that semi-frequently). Or, one more, a clergyMAN with weapon drawn and a child behind him with the shadow/silhouette of a BG approaching - sort of a modern rendition of Psalm 23/Luke 15?

Q

Oleg Volk
November 15, 2008, 03:59 PM
Quoheleth,

Next time I come to Texas, I would happily make a poster featuring you. I'll see what I can do locally, too.

1 old 0311
November 15, 2008, 06:15 PM
Cool pics.:)

MikePGS
November 15, 2008, 07:28 PM
it can be very easilly manipulated by the anti-crowd to serve their agenda.
To be fair the antis are GENERALLY self-described "liberals" who of course wouldn't make such comments because they are racist and politically incorrect (catch them in their own traps on that one). And even though it doesn't need to be said again, the Muslim girl is quite the looker (Sadly though I found my eyes being drawn to the gun first.... yes, I have a problem).

LWGN
November 15, 2008, 07:30 PM
I linked the Pagan pic to a Witchcraft and Paganism forum I know to get feedback from the actual Pagan community. The reponse there was less than positive. The folks there (many of whom indicated that they are very pro-2A) felt that it would be detrimental to both groups - Linking Pagans (who have been trying very hard to be seen as NOT scary) with 'scary' guns, and guns with 'scary' Pagans.

I really like the idea of the diverse group with the diverse symbols (and diverse firearms) all in one image. I think that it might convey the intended messge more clearly.

MikePGS
November 15, 2008, 07:59 PM
Linking Pagans (who have been trying very hard to be seen as NOT scary) with 'scary' guns, and guns with 'scary' Pagans.
Maybe reshoot with a nonthreatening gun? Hello Kitty .22 maybe?

Quoheleth
November 15, 2008, 08:37 PM
Quoheleth,

Next time I come to Texas, I would happily make a poster featuring you. I'll see what I can do locally, too.

Obviously, you haven't seen me, either live or Memorex. I'm only offering ideas, not offering to model. Your camara is not ensured highly enough to handle shots of me!!!

Seriously, I'm flattered, but that's not what I was hunting for...only trying to help pass on an idea I see in my head but have no means (or talent) to produce.

If it would help, I would be glad to send you a "loaner" clerical shirt to make some pics - grey, black or tan?

Q

Aran
November 16, 2008, 12:29 PM
A clergyMAN in a dark suit & clerical collar, Bible in weak-side hand with right hand gently pulling back the suit to show a CCW? Or, for that matter, a clergyMAN in clerical shirt on the firing line (I do that semi-frequently). Or, one more, a clergyMAN with weapon drawn and a child behind him with the shadow/silhouette of a BG approaching - sort of a modern rendition of Psalm 23/Luke 15?

I think you spilled a little sexism there, might want to get that checked out.

SaxonPig
November 16, 2008, 01:29 PM
Rules of grammar dictate that when speaking of an unidentified individual whose sex is unknown the male pronoun is used.

I know... the rules are sexist, too.

Matt-J2
November 16, 2008, 02:04 PM
I bet $1.05 he's(see, I do it too) talking about the emphasis on man in clergyman(ex. clergyMAN). Pretty sure that's not part of the rules of grammar on it's own, and lends itself rather well to the idea that said clergyman is sexist.

I think he just wants to see the fuzzier sex represented more, but heck, for all I know he hates the ladies. Doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

bdickens
November 16, 2008, 04:19 PM
At the risk of turning the thread further towards religion, there are also those who fail to realize that many of the early church leaders who Paul addressed by name were women and who think that women do not belong in the preisthood.

Quoheleth
November 16, 2008, 04:24 PM
I think you spilled a little sexism there, might want to get that checked out.

Didn't spill anything. Spills are accidental. I said what I said on purpose.

Am I sexist? Yes...I call men "men" and women "women." I open doors for women, stand when they enter a room, take my hat off in their presence, and don't spit when they are nearby. I'll occassionally open a door for a man, stand when it is a business/formal situation, and only take a hat off if I enter their home. Yep. I'm an unrepentant sexist.

But I digress...and, besides, that is not why I said what I said.

My point is a) most of the photos are of women. I understand the *why*, but how about more of males in such a poster? b) Furthermore, where in today's society clergy may be accepted as either male or female, in line with position (a), make the clergy-type-person a male; ergo c) I deliberately chose to use the noun clergyman with the emphasis on -MAN (contra generic "clergy" or "clergy-type-person") to designate the "fuzzier sex."

Oleg wants to use a female clergy in a pic, I don't care. He could do both. Or, for that matter, he can chose to ignore it completely.

FWIW, I am hapily married to the same woman for 12+ years (plus another 3 years of dating/engagement prior) and have no desire for anyone else.

Q

Matt-J2
November 16, 2008, 04:32 PM
You might want to look again, they're not all women.

Quoheleth
November 16, 2008, 05:39 PM
My point is a) all the photos are of women You might want to look again, they're not all women

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Q

benEzra
November 16, 2008, 06:11 PM
Rules of grammar dictate that when speaking of an unidentified individual whose sex is unknown the male pronoun is used.
Used to be, anyway. Of course, that rule was made in a time when almost anyone you spoke to in any sort of educated/professional capacity would have been male, so it was (for the time) an understandable rule. IMHO, it no longer is, and given that a significant portion of the population views it as offensive, I try to avoid the generic "he".

BTW, most people don't actually consider the "generic he" to be truly generic. If you don't believe me, construct a sentence containing "his husband or wife" as either the subject or the object, and see how many people consider that an awkward construction. The only reason it would be considered awkward would be that the "his" does, in fact, strongly connote maleness.

FWIW, I would refer to a female member of Congress as a "congressman," a female member of the clergy as a "clergyman," a female chair of a meeting as "chairman," etc. I do not like the "-person" affectation, as in congressperson, chairperson, or (LOL) clergyperson, which sound silly to my ear. I also feel that the wholesale application of "-ess" or "-trix" to words to indicate femaleness is condescending. IMO, Lara Croft is a fictional adventurer, not an "adventuress"; Patty Wagstaff is an aviator, not an "aviatrix"; etc.

Maelstrom
November 16, 2008, 11:16 PM
I also feel that the wholesale application of "-ess" or "-trix" to words to indicate femaleness is condescending.

My dominatrix doesn't seem to see it that way....

benEzra
November 17, 2008, 12:07 AM
My dominatrix doesn't seem to see it that way....
LOL...the one exception... :neener:

CZ.22
November 17, 2008, 12:48 AM
I see only bad things from the second to last one. I know its innocent, but I think too many people would read too much into it.
First thing I though too, but she's wearing glasses and and ear protection, and isn't wearing a burkah. I think it's a good diveristy picture.
That picture would be a lot worse if the woman was holding an AK47 instead of a G3 (or whatever it is.)
I like em. The neo-pagan is kinda scary looking, though.

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