Least usefull caliber.


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cchurchi
November 14, 2008, 10:29 AM
Every caliber has something to offer, and I love them all.... but some seem lacking in one way or another.

For me, it's 9mm. I don't own any 9mm pistols or rifles, and have never really enjoyed shooting them. .40 just seems so much better and .45 is awesome, although a little slow.

What pistol and rifle calibers do you find to be the least attractive and why?

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AirForceShooter
November 14, 2008, 10:30 AM
.25
it's not a .22 and it's not a .32

Sort of useless.

AFS

Phil DeGraves
November 14, 2008, 10:32 AM
2.7mm Kolibri

Claude Clay
November 14, 2008, 10:33 AM
-1 on the .25

Bubba613
November 14, 2008, 10:33 AM
.357SIG. Some people like it and I can't understand why. If you want that kind of performance get some Win Rangers 127gr +P+ 9mm.
But there are a host of forgotten pistol calibers out there. Who shoots .400 CorBon anymore? How about .41AE? When was the last gun chambered in .32S&W made?
I love 9mm and I love .45acp. I have no use for .40S&W which seems to offer the worst of both worlds.

average_shooter
November 14, 2008, 10:34 AM
37mm Flares

Like the ones for the fake M203's that you can put on AR's.

Might as well just let us have the 40mm M203 and sell training rounds commercially. That'd at least be kind of fun. But, seriously, who uses the 37mm flare guns as anything other than to look like they've got a 203 on their AR?

Maelstrom
November 14, 2008, 10:39 AM
One more for the .25.

It's actually weaker than the .22. Besides, with the advent of the tiny .380s, the smaller rounds have been made obsolete.

AllisonDT
November 14, 2008, 11:17 AM
It's actually weaker than the .22. Besides, with the advent of the tiny .380s, the smaller rounds have been made obsolete.

I'm sure you're talking about personal defense. There are billions of squirrels, rabbits, possums, coons and other critters that wish the .22lr was obsolete. :)

Superlite27
November 14, 2008, 11:18 AM
I'm a huge fan of .45 ACP and use every available opportunity to disparage the wimpy 9mm whenever possible, but I will say that it is an effective round (not nearly as effective as .45) and provides several benefits such as cheaper purchase price (because it's wimpy?) and higher capacity in the firearms chambered for it (probably because you need twice the bullets)Lower recoil could be a benefit. So IMHO, I wouldn't classify the 9mm as useless.

I'd vote for .25 as well.......

.....although, you could use it for plinking aluminum cans. You wouldn't have to constantly go and set them upright again after you hit them. This wouldn't work with 9mm as it would most likely tip them over with hits near the rim.

Mp7
November 14, 2008, 11:24 AM
50 Beowulf.

Unless you are trying to stop VBIEDs
on a daily basis.

sojournerhome
November 14, 2008, 11:26 AM
First thought when I saw the title .25.
.22 or .22 magnum why need .25?

Aran
November 14, 2008, 11:27 AM
Whatever you carry. :P

DoubleTapDrew
November 14, 2008, 11:31 AM
Another vote for .25
I think it was Jeff Cooper who said:
"As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you."

expvideo
November 14, 2008, 11:33 AM
Having been shot with a .25, I can vouch for its uselessness.

Hoplophile
November 14, 2008, 11:35 AM
.25

Nobody has ever used .25 to do anything legal or good. How could a caliber which is a perfect square be so awful?

HoosierQ
November 14, 2008, 11:36 AM
Gotta wonder how useful a .500 S&W really is. I mean useful, not cool or fun or whatever. I mean if a .44 magnum or a 45 colt, or 45 acp, or a 10mm won't do the job...don't you need a rifle or a shotgun?

22-rimfire
November 14, 2008, 11:36 AM
I don't like to see any caliber become obsolete. I don't shoot every caliber and it just comes down to favorites or what you have now. Who am I to dictate choice.

With the popularity of concealable handguns, the 25 ACP has had a resurgence. Personally I find the caliber next to useless. I would choose the 380 myself over it. All you really have to do is look at what Walmart stocks and you see the more popular calibers.

As far as handguns are concerned, I'm quite comfortable with the 40 S&W and 38spl for overall personal defense. No 45 ACP? Nope. The caliber never really excited me as my formative years were primarily with revolvers and the 357 outshined it.

Added: My expectation is that the 500 S&W will live on and the 460 will become a boutique caliber with it's fans such as we see with the 41 magnum.

MaterDei
November 14, 2008, 11:37 AM
.25
anything larger than .50

contenderman
November 14, 2008, 11:38 AM
Any caliber other than the one for the gun I have when I'm "engaged" and running out of ammo :evil:

jahwarrior
November 14, 2008, 11:50 AM
any round that can take someone down is not useless.

eflatminor
November 14, 2008, 11:53 AM
A pistol built to handle a 9mm major load is quite fun. REALLY fast and flat shooting with little muzzle flip. You might think differently about 9's if you tried one. Might be hard to find though outside the IPSC community.

mugsie
November 14, 2008, 12:02 PM
17 HMR - another hype gun built to sell a product which didn't need inventing.

mulletguter
November 14, 2008, 12:13 PM
7.62 Nagant I got a box for my Russian N1895r just to have a box of correct ammo Will probably never use it.

hksw
November 14, 2008, 12:20 PM
Another one for .25 ACP.

Rimfire performance at centerfire prices.

expvideo
November 14, 2008, 12:21 PM
any round that can take someone down is not useless.
A .25 can take a man down, but it'll take about 30 seconds to a minute with a really good COM shot. A guy can do a lot in that amount of time. Especially if he's pissed off that you shot him. So just because it will eventually take him down does not mean it is useful.

tmajors
November 14, 2008, 12:25 PM
.25 is least useful (not counting funky proprietary stuff).

If you're going for small get the .22. Rounds are cheaper and .22 is respectable for it's size in that even the most elitist gun nuts will have a .22 or four for cheap fun shooting.

If you're looking for something larger then a .22 get a .380. At least the bullet diameter is in the mid caliber range...even if there isn't as much powder behind it. .380 pistols aren't much bigger than .25's and the ammo is pretty much the same price.

mljdeckard
November 14, 2008, 12:28 PM
.25 MAY take someone down. A well placed needle MAY take someone down.

If I shoot someone, I don't want their reaction to be "Ow!! That freakin' HURT!!" I want it to do more than leave a welt.

Larry Ashcraft
November 14, 2008, 12:28 PM
I disagree on the .17 HMR. I use mine more than any other gun I own, except possibly the 22lr (which is used mostly for plinking).

Coyote3855
November 14, 2008, 12:33 PM
Ref: .32 S&W. A couple of companies make conversion cylinders that will allow this cartridge to be used in .31 caliber percussion revolvers such as the 1849 Colt Pocket model. Some are used in Cowboy Action Shooting side matches.

I also disagree on the .17 HMR. My wife and I both have rifles in this caliber. It is death on wheels for the ground squirrels that infest our rural property.

To stay on topic, I vote the .25 ACP as least useful caliber.

The Bushmaster
November 14, 2008, 12:35 PM
Daisy Red Rider BB gun...Then again a stick.

Myles
November 14, 2008, 12:35 PM
I would have voted for the .25ACP, except that I once used one to successfully fend off an attacker. (No shots fired)

That was a damned useful caliber. Anything larger, I likely would not have been carrying at the time.

EDIT: I don't see anyone lining up to let themselves be shot with a .25; it has poor terminal ballistics, yes, but it's no toy.

zoom6zoom
November 14, 2008, 12:37 PM
I'll have to cast my vote for the .45GAP. Maybe not "least useful" but certainly cutting close to "unneeded".

expvideo
November 14, 2008, 12:41 PM
I would have voted for the .25ACP, except that I once used one to successfully fend off an attacker. (No shots fired)

That was a damned useful caliber. Anything larger, I likely would not have been carrying at the time.

EDIT: I don't see anyone lining up to let themselves be shot with a .25; it has poor terminal ballistics, yes, but it's no toy.

I agree that it is not a toy, but like I said, even with the best COM shot you can get, it's still going to take at least 30 seconds for your attacker to drop. That's plenty of time to gut you, shoot you, or whatever else. I don't know how it would perform with a head-shot (although I've heard countless stories of .25s failing to penetrate human skulls), but I can guarantee that a perfect COM shot will not drop an attacker very quickly.

Nugilum
November 14, 2008, 01:03 PM
I'll add to zoom6zoom's .45GAP. ;)

<ducks>

Sniper X
November 14, 2008, 01:12 PM
I vote for .25acp, BUT, I can say I have yet to see anyone shoot a 17-223 since I saw my first and only one about 30 years ago.

3pairs12
November 14, 2008, 01:12 PM
another +1 for .45GAP

Sniper X
November 14, 2008, 01:17 PM
EXPvideo said it right about the almost useless .25acp. I can tell you I have heard stories about it not penetrating a bikers leather jacket who was attacking the shooter. At least it didn't penetrate the bikers skin after lodging in the leather of his motorcycle jacket.

ammoeater
November 14, 2008, 01:21 PM
Another vote for .25 ACP. I bought a little Beretta 21 from a cop, just because it was cheap and an addition to my collection. As we were filling out the transfer paperwork at his kitchen table, he tells me a story about how he had his one and only ND with the pistol. He said he had it in his pocket as a BUG, and carried it cocked and locked. He was in his garage, and went to unload it after a long day on the streets of Atlantic City. He dropped the mag and, without racking the slide or tipping up the barrel to remove the one in the tube, dropped the safety and pulled the trigger. The pistol fired (of course) ricocheted off the gas tank on his Harley, and grazed his forehead!

He never took it out of his safe again until the day he sold it to me. Well-made little pistol, but completely useless IMO.

Vagabond
November 14, 2008, 01:22 PM
With some reservation, I'd vote for the .25ACP, especially if we interpreted useless as unneeded.
I always told my mom that if she shot someone with that .25 she'd only piss them off. Sometime later mother put 6 .25ACP's in a mugger and he lived, though he bled a lot, and used a bunch of public dollars for medical and rehab etc.(Before you jump me about letting her carry that : A .38Spl loaded with +P HP's was within reach and she choose the little Beretta because she feared the recoil...)

HOWEVER, she ended the assualt with that caliber. That's pretty useful.

Maybe it never needed inventing.

cchurchi
November 14, 2008, 01:22 PM
For awhile, I was looking into getting a PS90 because of its bullpup design but the more I read about the 5.7 round, the less I liked. I ended up ordering a 5.56 Noveske.

Gump
November 14, 2008, 01:26 PM
I bout this box of 6mm WWB for my p99. none fit. they were really useless until i turned them all upside down :)

alistaire
November 14, 2008, 01:31 PM
.25
anything larger than .50

Hey, .577 is a great cartridge for stopping baddies who ignore .455 Webley!

KBintheSLC
November 14, 2008, 01:31 PM
For me its the .40 S&W. I just don't really see the need for it when you can use a 10mm auto and have a superior service round. If 10mm is too much, then a 9mm or a 45acp should suffice.

Phil DeGraves
November 14, 2008, 01:43 PM
I use to feel that way about the .25, but since then, I was given a case of ammo. Since I had the ammo, I bought a gun, a Beretta Jetfire for $125. I had a similar .22 a long time ago and it left a lot to be desired. I expected the same type of performance from the .25. I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised. It was more reliable, had a greater magazine capacity and was more accurate than the equivalent .22.
While it may be "rimfire performance at centerfire prices", it is easy to carry and would be a good gun to keep the bad guys head down with while you change position to get a good shot on him with a real caliber.
Even though I am no fan of .45 Gap or even .40 S&W, if that was what I had when I needed one, I wouldn't feel undergunned, so I can't say they are useless. Redundant and unnecessary, (kind of like Chrysler automobiles) perhaps, but not useless.

jackstinson
November 14, 2008, 01:45 PM
Nobody has ever used .25 to do anything legal or good.
Now there is an interesting statement, nonsense, but interesting. Considering the plethora of pistols which have been designed around this round since it's introduction a little over a century ago, a whole lot of people found the cartridge useful.
I myself use the .25acp all the time for legal and good reasons. I'd be hard-pressed to shoot the many .25 pocket pistols I've aquired if I didn't have cartridges for them. They are all legal, they are all good, they are all fun. Heck, for indoor fun I even load .25 pellets into .25acp shells with primer-only...just for giggles; sort of a ".25 Colibri". A Beretta 950B's (Jetfire) tip-up barrel makes that easy. That's one of my favorite .25acp pistols also....9 shots and reliable functioning.
THERE ARE NO USELESS CALIBERS.....Only cartridges which are useful to some more than others.
As for: "Maybe it never needed inventing"? Gee, John Browning wasn't very smart, was he? :)
And besides, .25acp is not a caliber, it's a cartridge. ;)

w_houle
November 14, 2008, 01:48 PM
If you consider obsolete ammunition, then the most useless round would be the 9mm Glisenti.
I would say the most useless old round in production would be the .22 short.
The most useless modern round would be the FN five seven.

Phil DeGraves
November 14, 2008, 01:52 PM
I suppose the least useful cartridge is the one that I don't have a firearm to shoot it out of. That would be pretty useless.

Larry Ashcraft
November 14, 2008, 01:52 PM
I would say the most useless old round in production would be the .22 short.
Not when you own your granddad's 1890 Winchester "22 short only" rifle. ;)

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
November 14, 2008, 01:55 PM
The .25 I onced rolled to a GSV, hit in the forehead,, lots of blood, but the bullet didnt do anything other than piss him off. At least the 9mm would have ruined his day,,:what:

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 14, 2008, 01:56 PM
.25 auto
.32 auto
.700 nitro
8 bore
4 bore

There's too big and too small - Everything in between is "all good".

Phil DeGraves
November 14, 2008, 02:06 PM
5.7x28

Now there is a truly useless cartridge. The guns are just as big and bulky as guns of superior cartridges, and it is another rimfire performance at centerfire prices. And I don't have anything that chambers it nor will I spend the exorbitant amount to get it.

cchurchi
November 14, 2008, 02:40 PM
10mm is what I would call a very usefull round, a round that I wish was more popular, a round that I think is awesome, and a round that I don't own any guns that will fire it.

Nor do I plan on buying any because it's a hard to find caliber, and its a longish auto caliber which is slightly incompatable with my small, girly hands.

Still supprised no one has mentioned .50 AE....

Bubba613
November 14, 2008, 03:50 PM
I disagree with the .25 assesment. I love my little Colt even though I dont shoot it much. And I have yet to see the guy who wants to stand in front of one.
.22short has a good market in poachers who like to shoot stuff without people hearing it.

mljdeckard
November 14, 2008, 03:57 PM
I don't want to stand in front of a bucket of cat urine getting thrown at me either. Doesn't mean I will depend on it to save my life. On the other hand, faced with a situation where I was allowed to dress however I wanted, and I had to pick a bullet to get hit with, it absolutely WOULD be a .25 acp.

And for the guy who said it is useful because he once deterred a crime with it, if you deterred the crime without firing a shot, then how did the cartridge have anything at all to do with it? It would have been the same result with a .50 AE or a replica airsoft gun for that matter.

PRM
November 14, 2008, 04:01 PM
I don't carry a .25, personally never saw the benefit when larger calibres come in the same size firearm. Having said that, I worked a suicide several years back where the deceased used a .25 Baby Browning. The round passed completely through his head, the side of the high backed chair he was sitting in, and lodged in the wall next to it. While it would be far from the best choice for defense - it will kill a person.

BullpupBen
November 14, 2008, 04:10 PM
Need to go:
.25- these days you can find a .32 nearly as small or a .22 thats just as small and both will do far more damage to an attacker.
6mm-.223
ALL super short magnums
4.6x30.. I would include the 5.7 but i *guess* it can feed from double-stacked magazines unlike the .22 WMR and does have some niche uses, though i strongly disagree with the general idea of it.
10 gauge, because 3.5" 12's can do just as much
.22 Long

-1 on .357 Sig, no 9mm load can equal its velocities, at least not without quickly tearing up the gun which wasn't built to handle it. Also a great platform for carbines.

federalfarmer
November 14, 2008, 04:31 PM
I vote .30-06.
Try a .270 Win and smile!

Phil DeGraves
November 14, 2008, 04:31 PM
no 9mm load can equal its velocities, at least not without quickly tearing up the gun which wasn't built to handle it.

Actually, the .357 SIG IS the same platform as the 9mm and the .40 (such as the SIGARMS 229). So a gun that can handle the .357 SIG will also handle the 127grn +P+ 9mm. The velocities, tested by chronograph are so close as make any difference meaningless.
However, if a .35 caliber bullet at a certain velocity from one shell casing is useful, how can identical ballistics from a different shell casing be useless? Redundant, yes. Useless, no, unless both are useless.

expvideo
November 14, 2008, 05:11 PM
I don't carry a .25, personally never saw the benefit when larger calibres come in the same size firearm. Having said that, I worked a suicide several years back where the deceased used a .25 Baby Browning. The round passed completely through his head, the side of the high backed chair he was sitting in, and lodged in the wall next to it. While it would be far from the best choice for defense - it will kill a person.

That's the thing though. It will kill a person, but it won't stop a person. A .25 will not stop an attacker from attacking you with a center of mass shot. A head shot might stop them. Maybe. I'm not saying that the bullets aren't deadly. But even the best COM shots aren't going to stop the attacker. I can guarantee you that personally.

CoRoMo
November 14, 2008, 05:16 PM
I say...

the 4 bore

or...

the 2.34mm Swiss (0.092126 caliber)

DuncanSA
November 14, 2008, 05:36 PM
I don't think this is a meaningful question - useful for what? If you want to plink or teach kids to shoot .22 is fine. For target shooting any size bullet is OK.

For personal defence its pretty well what you fancy - lots of people have been killed by the "minor" calibers of .25 & .32. For "put down" power the traditional .45 is great, as is the 10mm - and also the 9mm. For PD I carry 9mm hydro-shock loads which would definitely spoil a BG's day.

Phil DeGraves
November 14, 2008, 05:40 PM
A .25 will not stop an attacker from attacking you with a center of mass shot.

Actually, that will depend on large part on the mental attitude of the attacker. I know of cases where the .25 acp caused one shot immediate stops. What I would agree with is that the .25 should not be counted on to produce a one shot stop with a COM hit (or even with 2, 3, or 4 COM hits).

Auburn1992
November 14, 2008, 05:43 PM
45 GAP 222 Remington

Ky Larry
November 14, 2008, 05:59 PM
None. Just because I don't shoot it doesn't make it useless or worthless.
One mans meat...etc.

357sigRog
November 14, 2008, 06:15 PM
I vote .25 acp

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 14, 2008, 06:29 PM
Oh gosh, yes, forgot .45 GAP, +1!! :)

RedneckFur
November 14, 2008, 06:39 PM
45acp, just because its not a .357magnum. Feel free to give me dirty looks :)

cambeul41
November 14, 2008, 06:45 PM
Daisy Red Rider BB gun

Surely you jest! A few years of carrying one everywhere and plinking with thousands of BBs is wonderful training on a minimal budget. Then when you are 11 or 12, you get a .22!

I would vote for .25, but I know a nice Detroit lady who believes in them. She put three rounds, COM, in a home invader, and he had to go to the hospital. Under his own power, but he still had to go.

gvnwst
November 14, 2008, 08:21 PM
.45 GAP, it really isn't as good as the .45ACP. And the 10mm auto is better than both.:D

browningguy
November 14, 2008, 08:25 PM
You guys are rough, I really love my Browning .25. It makes an excellent backup for the Browning HP in .40, and you can conceal one anywhere.

jh9x18ky
November 14, 2008, 08:28 PM
The most useless caliber ? The one you leave at home.... the one you dont use.

PRM
November 14, 2008, 08:39 PM
That's the thing though. It will kill a person, but it won't stop a person.

Now that's scarry!!!

natman
November 14, 2008, 08:47 PM
The 25 ACP is pretty useless, although it does have an edge in reliability over the 22 LR. Tiny handguns sometimes don't fire rimfire ammo reliably. Since neither round is suitable for defense, the question is somewhat moot.

Now if you want a truly pointless round, consider the 9mm Federal. This was a 9mm Luger Rimmed that Charter Arms made a few revolvers for. The ballistics were about at the 38 Special +p level, which can hardly be called useless. What made the round pointless was that the exact same revolver was already available in the more powerful, more versatile and FAR more popular 357 Magnum. So why would anyone buy a 9mm Federal? No one did and the cartridge is now a collector's item.

WardenWolf
November 14, 2008, 08:47 PM
Well, if you're also considering obsolete calibers, .225 Winchester. Released the same year as the .223 and 5.56, this rimmed cartridge was very slightly more powerful than .223, but being rimmed was generally unsuited to increasingly popular autoloading rifles. Winchester stopped producing rifles in it a few years later, and no longer makes ammunition, either. Only way to get ammo is through a few custom shops at $1.50 a round, or old surplus. The .225 was functionally obsolete (due to the rim) and redundant from the moment it was released. Totally useless then, and even more so today.

Then there's .22 Long and .22 Short, both effectively obsolete.

For common calibers available today, there's just way too many .30 caliber rifle rounds out there that are just too much alike. They're not useless, but redundant.

Revolvers chambered in .38. Not .357, just .38. There's just no point these days, as the .357's are heavier built can take the recoil better.

newkahrman
November 14, 2008, 10:31 PM
For me it would be a toss up between .25 and 45 GAP. I am no fan of the .380 though, 9mm is half the price and more effective.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
November 14, 2008, 11:24 PM
.25, 380, .357 sig, 10mm.

i like my .40 best of BOTH worlds between 9mm and .45acp, since i got my Sigma im looking into getting a FNP 40 soon after shooting a friends in 9mm and 40.

GRIZ22
November 14, 2008, 11:28 PM
Gotta wonder how useful a .500 S&W really is. I mean useful, not cool or fun or whatever. I mean if a .44 magnum or a 45 colt, or 45 acp, or a 10mm won't do the job...don't you need a rifle or a shotgun?

The 500 along with 454 Casull, etc. I remember seeing a thing on Tv when I was a kid (yeah it was on a 5" Philco in B&W) where a guy killed an elephant with a 44 mag. He was backed up by someone else with a double rifle but he did take the elephant with an eyesocket shot with that 44 mag. If you're in Alaska or somewhere where you need a handgun capable of taking a rhino okay. I've seen guys say they were buying a 500 S&W for a CCW. That's another story.

I don't think the time has come to toss out the .25. Centerfires are more reliable than rimfires overall. Maybe not by much but they are more reliable.

The earlier Jeff Cooper quote reminded me of Skeeter Skelton's take on the 25. Far from his first choice for a gunfight but he might be able to bluff his way out. After all, nobody wants to get shot not even with a .25.

Mike U.
November 15, 2008, 12:26 AM
I don't have much use for the .25 ACP myself.
However, let me relate an account that happened to a friend from da hood. He and his family were sitting in the living room one night watching the idiot box when their front door gets kicked in by a junkie looking for loot. My friend kept a Raven .25ACP in the coffee table drawer. Junkie gets to the living room and my friend fires one shot. FMJ round hits junkie in sternum, penetrates sternum and junkie's heart. Junkie falls in his tracks DRT. Friend was cleared as shooting was in self defense.
Not a round I'd care to use, but, it worked when it had to for him.

Now, I have to take issue with the member who believes .22 Short has no real usefulness.
I beg to differ. In my .22 levergun I can fit 23 .22 Shorts. Muzzle velocity is 1095 FPS. 100 yard velocity is 950 FPS. Pretty doggone good retained velocity if you believe the figures provided on the ammo box.
This round is lethal on every animal smaller than a German Shepard. I use it on tree rats, opossum, racoon, feral cats and I believe it would be plenty to take a fox too.
With 23 rounds in the tube, it's a downright handy cartridge to have around if your out and don't really want to carry a pocketful of ammo with you.
I hope the .22 Short stays popular enough to stay widely available.

JKimball
November 15, 2008, 01:48 AM
The least useful caliber I can think of is the 2.34mm rimfire:

http://www.swissminigun.ch./ammunition.html

The caliber is 0.092126 in. and at 399.6 f/sec it delivers 0.7154 ft-lbs of energy.

Their website says that most airguns are 10x as powerful.

Ohio Gun Guy
November 15, 2008, 02:03 AM
All the ammo I dont own! absolutly useless to me ;)

7.62X25mm
November 15, 2008, 03:16 AM
.25
it's not a .22 and it's not a .32

Sort of useless.

25 ACP is less muzzle energy than a 22 LR, and WAY more expensive.

BUT it feeds better than a 22 LR in a semi auto pocket gun, like the Baby Colts.

9mm is damned effective in an Uzi Carbine/Micro Pistol on full auto. Light, lotsa ammo in a mag, and not a heap of recoil.

I vote for the 40 S&W . . . Not quite 45 ACP. It can manage 45 ACP ballistics in some regards, but can't match the 45 ACP loaded to the max.

I hate them because I think the brass is 45 ACP and I pick it up at the range.

DoesItMatter
November 15, 2008, 03:25 AM
I vote the 7.62x39

the 7.62x54R can do all it can do and more!

I love my battle club Mosin Nagant M91/30!

7.62X25mm
November 15, 2008, 03:31 AM
I vote the 7.62x39

the 7.62x54R can do all it can do and more!

I love my battle club Mosin Nagant M91/30!

Load up a 1000 rds of both calibers. Now, toss them on your back and run a half mile.

See the point in lighter ammo?

Load up 75 rds of each in a mag . . . if you can find a 75 rd. mag for a 91/30. Now, take that 91/30 and the 75 rd. mag and swing it around in close quarters, like a building, heavy woods, combat utility trench . . .

30mag
November 15, 2008, 03:40 AM
.410

Seriously, whose idea was that?

7.62X25mm
November 15, 2008, 04:11 AM
.410 was designed as a light upland game gun you could carry all day.

Same size pattern as a 12 gauge, just fewer pellets -- which in #9 birdshot is no big deal.

Works great in handgun defense like the Taurus Judge.

Dorryn
November 15, 2008, 07:46 AM
10mm is a useless round. Wimpy, unimpressive performance.

76shuvlinoff
November 15, 2008, 07:51 AM
22 short is an excellent round for plinking, teaching, varmint eradication and small game hunting.
You can learn a lot as youngster with a Sears single shot carbine and a brick of shorts. 40 years later my wife uses the very same rifle with the same load for gofers and my daughter punches paper with it.

MikePGS
November 15, 2008, 07:52 AM
Eh I'd have to say .50 AE. The Desert Eagle platform itself is kind of useless, though I'm sure they're fun to shoot.

regal
November 15, 2008, 08:00 AM
9mm shotgun, seriously won't kill rabbits.

Also Swiss 7.5x55, A K-31 sat in my closet for two years while searching gun shops. No one in a 60 mile radius carried those swiss bullets. Tried to order bullets online but was declined because I didn't fax a drivers license. What a hassel. Sold it to a pawnshop for $50 and felt bad for the guy who buys it.

1911 guy
November 15, 2008, 08:11 AM
My list of calibers that could disappear tomorrow and not be missed:
.25acp (lame performance)
.22 long (neither Short nor Long Rifle)
.17 HM2 (.17HMR stays)
.45gap (a promising idea killed by its own creators)
7mm mag (30-06 performance with more recoil)
nearly all the new short/fat calibers (previously existing balistics in a new package)

Only a handfull of calibers are useful to me personally, but these seem to be of no particular benefit to anyone at all.

Sharps-shooter
November 15, 2008, 11:07 AM
There are all the novelty rounds, like the swiss gun previously posted and the .22 BB cap oddities of old. They're pretty useless except as novelties.

I don't own a .410 or a .25, but not because they're useless. I don't own a .410 because I'm not that good with a shotgun, and it seems to me that a .410 is better for someone who is already good with a shotgun. Certainly someone like my mother is going to have an easier time lugging it up to the top of the hills to hunt grouses.

When I was a kid, lots of people in Appalachia carried .25 pocket pistols. I occasionally have to stop myself from buying one out of nostalgic impulse.
I knew of someone who killed an assailant with one. Two contact or near contact shots to the chest. Not only did the assailant die, he stopped. The guy using it was an old man, fighting a younger, bigger man. For him, it wasn't useless.

Somethings are not the most practical for self defense. Some rounds might not be the best round for a given purpose. But unless you don't own the gun they work in, hardly any of them are useless.

BullpupBen
November 15, 2008, 02:24 PM
Actually, the .357 SIG IS the same platform as the 9mm and the .40 (such as the SIGARMS 229). So a gun that can handle the .357 SIG will also handle the 127grn +P+ 9mm. The velocities, tested by chronograph are so close as make any difference meaningless.
However, if a .35 caliber bullet at a certain velocity from one shell casing is useful, how can identical ballistics from a different shell casing be useless? Redundant, yes. Useless, no, unless both are useless.

.357 Sig still gets at least another 100 fps off of it, and I'm sure by handloads you could do much better.

Also even though they are the same "platform" that does not mean that a gun in 9mm can take .357 Sig pressures. .357 Sig is meant to operate at 40,000 PSI while 9mm can only take 35,000 PSI. furthermore 9mm has less case capacity than .357 Sig which means it will reach a given pressure with less powder (and less velocity) than .357 Sig.

So loading a 9mm to .357 Sig levels (which even the Rangers are not) would be dangerous as the manufacturers will not have tested their guns to take repeated punishment at that level.

Bubba613
November 15, 2008, 07:18 PM
An extra 100fps. Color me unimpressed. You have to weight that against the lower capacity and higher (much higher) cost of the ammo.
Anyway, most useless rifle caliber is .222Remington Magnum. Useless because no one makes ammo for it, except like one guy in Montana. I knew someone with a rifle chambered in it and he couldn't shoot it.

EricTheBarbarian
November 15, 2008, 07:29 PM
I would call the .410 useless. Expensive ammo, that is no where as near as good as a 12ga with #8 shot. Completely useless.

Id say .17 hmr was pretty much useless for me, as I sold the rifle though I liked it because I could never get it to do anything a .22lr couldn't do, except cost more.

Other than that, I like all of my old obsolete calibers like 7.5x55swiss, and 762x54r, and 8mm. Useful for anything I want them to be.

Myles
November 15, 2008, 08:09 PM
And for the guy who said it is useful because he once deterred a crime with it, if you deterred the crime without firing a shot, then how did the cartridge have anything at all to do with it? It would have been the same result with a .50 AE or a replica airsoft gun for that matter.

The fact that I was armed, was how the cartridge related. Pistol vs. knife, he withdrew. At the time and place, I would not have been carrying anything larger. A pocket pistol is better than no pistol.

22-rimfire
November 15, 2008, 08:36 PM
I was a bit surprised that some listed the 40 S&W. I find it more useful than the 9mm and just about as good as the 45ACP. The 25, 32, and 380 ACP have really gotten a new lease on life with the renewed popularity of concealed carry. The 45 GAP is one caliber I wish I would have tried out. I liked the concept a lot. Reminded me of the 40 S&W concept.

There are lots of calibers that I would not miss which means nothing about usefulness. The 22 Long was mentioned which I would not miss. The short magnums for the most part were a solution for a problem that did not exist. Most of them will die a slow death as the manufacturers stop chambering rifles for them. The 325 always had potential for me.

As I mentioned before, I'm not a fan of the 25 ACP. I have owned pistols chambered in it however which is more than I can say about some calibers. I have only owned one 9mm and that was an Uzi carbine. I personally would not miss the 9mm but I know thousands of others would.

This has been one of the few threads of its kind that I have read every post.

ar10
November 15, 2008, 09:10 PM
Could someone define "useless caliber" :confused:
Seems that just about everyone answering covered about every caliber except maybe their own.:scrutiny:

jimmyraythomason
November 15, 2008, 09:13 PM
One more vote for the .25acp.

jakemccoy
November 16, 2008, 01:36 AM
.45 anything is useless.

Funderb
November 16, 2008, 01:51 AM
I bout this box of 6mm WWB for my p99. none fit. they were really useless until i turned them all upside down

haha! I like it.

WardenWolf
November 16, 2008, 02:01 AM
I'd agree, .410 is useless. It may have originally been developed as a lightweight shotgun, but technology has rendered that need obsolete. Today's full-size shotguns are lighter and more powerful. and the bore size of the .410 dramatically limits the number of pellets it can carry. It's just not an effective shotgun. These days, if you want a light shotgun, you should get a 20 gauge. It's reasonably powerful, still respectable, but with less recoil than a full 12. Some modern semi-automatic 12's have all but eliminated the recoil, as well, further rendering smaller shotguns obsolete.

BIGRETIC
November 16, 2008, 02:46 AM
ALL of the above mentioned calibers beats ...screaming for help!:neener:

Gun 4 Fun
November 16, 2008, 03:07 AM
I was gonna say either the 9mm winchester mag or the 9mm federal but they aren't so much useless as obsolete Another for the .25acp

BP44
November 16, 2008, 03:16 AM
Yup, another for the .25 acp:cuss:

ChCx2744
November 16, 2008, 05:51 AM
In reference to OP: 9mm is great. I don't know how you even dignified that statement with your analysis.

For whatever you pay for a gun in .25 you can buy more ammo for a better weapon or perhaps a better weapon in general.

Hostile Amish
November 16, 2008, 10:19 AM
.25 ACP, .577 (seriously), and .30 Carbine, in that order.

ar10
November 16, 2008, 11:01 AM
Those worthless .25 cal handguns were extremely popular in Europe in the 30s~40s. A number of those guns are now worth more money than your M16's, Kimber, and a lot of others.

woodfiend
November 16, 2008, 11:02 AM
9mm is not so useless. Why did Luger ugrade the pistol to 9mm when the army thought the original round was so underpowered? Why do the Navy Seals use the Sig 226 and MP5? Why is 9mm THE MOST popular round for pistol and submachine gun? There is a reason, and people would not use it if it was useless.

+1 for the .25, so ridiculous. I'd have to say it's better than nothing, but why wouldn't one use .22 Stingers?

loose cannon
November 16, 2008, 11:38 AM
why wouldnt one use 22 stingers?

because they blow up on bone and dont penetrate enough to reach vital organs.

i used to think stingers were the ultimate in 22lr till i shot a vehicle struck doe in the head with a whole magazine of them(10) and she didnt die.

a single .32 s&w long 98gr rnl ended her suffering,i shoulda used that in the first place.

if i use a 22lr for defense(very unlikely but possible i suppose)i will load it with the fastest solid bullet and place my shots well.

single stack
November 16, 2008, 12:05 PM
The .410 is neither obsolete nor useless.

It is a joy to shoot at small game, birds and clay targets.

.410 bore is my favorite for skeet and five stand.

I've not found shooting a .410 shotgun to be a
disappointing experience.

SS

loose cannon
November 16, 2008, 01:27 PM
410 makes a good hd shotgun for thr recoil sensitive.

in summer load with 3" #4birdshot in winter load with selier&belot 5pellet oo buck 3" rounds. cheaper than dirt carrys those. the 4s can be had from walmart.

mossberg makes the model 500hd in 410 go with the full stock.

Funderb
November 16, 2008, 03:45 PM
I think a .410 slug in 3" could be useful. Maybe a little expensive, but reloading should cure that.

U.S.SFC_RET
November 16, 2008, 07:29 PM
The worst caliber can be right between the ears.
Someone mentioned the .30 caliber carbine. Awesome home defence round pure and simple.

Another previous poster said something about the 410 shotgun. That single shot helped alot of kids how to shoot . Darn good squirrel gun if you ask me.
I agree about the .25 caliber pistol but the thing was designed to fit in you pocket anyways, probably worse than any bug. OMHO if you got one laying around and not a collector's piece sell it off. the O-run still makes it a seller's market. :)

CSA 357
November 16, 2008, 07:51 PM
They all have a place, the 25 acp is at the bottom of my to buy guns, but i would use one if thats all i had, but a good sharp knife would be better! Csa

30mag
November 16, 2008, 11:25 PM
Another previous poster said something about the 410 shotgun. That single shot helped alot of kids how to shoot . Darn good squirrel gun if you ask me.

I'm sure .25ACP would be an awesome squirrel killer as well.

I don't hate .410 or anything, but I just don't see its utility.
I don't think it does anything better than any other gauge or caliber.
What is the .410 best at? What was it designed for?

Home Defense? Are you guys on crack?!?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41_4.htm
It's a Judge, which is different than an actual shotgun... but still.
.410 sounds like a terrible idea for home defense.

expvideo
November 17, 2008, 09:53 AM
I don't have much use for the .25 ACP myself.
However, let me relate an account that happened to a friend from da hood. He and his family were sitting in the living room one night watching the idiot box when their front door gets kicked in by a junkie looking for loot. My friend kept a Raven .25ACP in the coffee table drawer. Junkie gets to the living room and my friend fires one shot. FMJ round hits junkie in sternum, penetrates sternum and junkie's heart. Junkie falls in his tracks DRT. Friend was cleared as shooting was in self defense.
Not a round I'd care to use, but, it worked when it had to for him.

On the other hand, I've personally been shot with a .25acp round in the chest (accidental discharge, friend accidentally shot me). It went through the right ventricle of my heart. I was walking around for somewhere between 30 seconds and 1 minute before I passed out. I will never trust my life to a .25acp. It got the best possible COM hit it ever could get on me, and I would have still had enough time and energy to kill everyone in the room if I was a BG. So yes, from my personal experience, .25acp is worthless.

I'm not going to talk about this event any more than I already have. It was an accident, he's still my friend (mostly because he gave me CPR and kept me alive until the ambulance arrived), I've recovered completely, and I was close to the northwest's #1 trauma center. That's all I want to say about it.

Wheellock
November 17, 2008, 10:22 AM
25ACP
5.7x28
17 fireball
221 fireball
17HMR
238-378
30-378
.50 AE
.50 Beowolf
.557 T.Rex... Please, WHY?
357 Sig
45 GAP
10MM


Im sure there more that could be added to that list... I just had a brain fart and can think of any more.

ashtxsniper
November 17, 2008, 11:25 AM
5.7
45 gap
25 acp
32 acp
anything .17 caliber

Kentucky-roughrider
November 17, 2008, 12:36 PM
Uselessness depands on the use of it, a 22-250 would be useless for elk or grizziles but great for groundhogs and paire dogs.
A 45-70 would be useless pairie dogs.
Half the rounds out there do something another rounds was designed to do for some reason or another. The 45 gap was designed to make a 45 acp in Glock handle, or something like that. The 45-75 was designed to make a 45-70 fit in the 1876 Winchester.
As far as self defence goes: the 25 acp is one of the worst,

Mike U.
November 17, 2008, 04:02 PM
On the other hand, I've personally been shot with a .25acp round in the chest (accidental discharge, friend accidentally shot me). It went through the right ventricle of my heart. I was walking around for somewhere between 30 seconds and 1 minute before I passed out. I will never trust my life to a .25acp. It got the best possible COM hit it ever could get on me, and I would have still had enough time and energy to kill everyone in the room if I was a BG. So yes, from my personal experience, .25acp is worthless.


expvideo,

I agree 100%. I'm certainly glad you survived with no long term injuries. It's not everyday you meet someone who took a round, any round, to the heart and is still alive to talk about it.

sparky923
November 17, 2008, 05:48 PM
.410 is a pretty good shotgun for snakes and such. They are especially good for youngsters just starting out hunting.

My vote would be the 16 guage. They used to be really popular until the 20 guage magnum came along. That stretched the versality of the 20 guage to overshadow and kill the demand for the 16.

Funderb
November 17, 2008, 06:41 PM
how about .410 is good for those who want a challenge in clay shooting or birding?

sixshooterfan
November 17, 2008, 07:14 PM
I learned on a 410 single shot from my Dad's old farm, and was quite proficient as a 12 year old shooting clay singles. A decade later not having fired a shotgun since I went out skeet shooting with my older brother and his friend, and outshot them both (with both of them having >2k in their fancy over/unders and a lot more shooting practice than me).

That same 410 single shot is also a gun that my mom can handle whenever the dachshunds get ahold of a copperhead.

But yeah, I'd agree with 25ACP, 45GAP, 357SIG, any flavor of the week short/super short magnum. What the heck is wrong with a good long action cartridge, let alone a standard short action?

Loomis
November 17, 2008, 07:47 PM
I object to the derragatory statements regarding my beloved .22 long. This round is literally a 22 long rifle with a slug from a 22 short. That is a very useful round. Most people would say that you should just shoot 22 shorts if you want a lower powered round. Well I say the 22 long is superior for that purpose if you own a gun chambered for 22 long rifle.

The reason? Its because the 22 short in a 22 long rifle chamber is notorious for leaving a "dirt ring" in the chamber that makes it difficult to chamber and extract long rifle rounds. In extreme situations, you can even erode a groove in the chamber that makes extraction of 22 long rifle VERY annoying.

Use 22 longs in place of 22 shorts. Problem solved.

Officers'Wife
November 17, 2008, 07:54 PM
Hi Mike the Wolf,

There are a number of rabbits, doves and pheasants that have fallen to my SAIGA that would argue that 410 used by a skilled operator is just as deadly as your more 'useful' shotguns. The SAIGA 410 also has the advantage of having much less recoil than the 20 or 12 gauge.

Loomis
November 17, 2008, 07:57 PM
Sparky, that only proves that 20ga magnum is useless. 16 ga makes WAY more sense than a 20ga magnum. That lengthened 20ga never shoulda even been invented. It's stupid. Same with the 12ga magnum vs. 10ga.

WardenWolf
November 17, 2008, 08:56 PM
While the Saiga .410 may be good, possibly one of the biggest flaw with .410 as a whole is the is the lack of quality guns that shoot it. Most are single shot or low-quality pump guns. And as for the low-recoil argument, what's often lost is the fact that .410's are, in fact, single shot or pump guns with little or no padding that expend their full recoil directly into the shooter's shoulder. A 20 gauge pump with a decent recoil pad has less felt recoil than your average .410, no kick for all effective purposes.

I tell recoil-challenged shooters to get a 20 gauge, not a .410. At least the 20 is all-around effective.

tubeshooter
November 17, 2008, 10:01 PM
Poor old .25 acp is getting a hard time in this thread. I'm not saying I'm a big fan or anything, but I do recognize that it was basically a solution to a mousegun platform question and was probably never intended to be considered in the same breath as a .45 or .357. I used to have a little Beretta 21A, it did what it was supposed to I guess but I started thinking about how much more misfires you get with most .22LR ammo compared to centerfire. At least .25 addresses this. I agree that terminal ballistics in both cases is underwhelming.


Also, with .410 - it has (re-)earned it's place around, it's not a 12 or 20 but again its not supposed to be. You see more of it than 10, 16 or 28 gauge nowadays. That ought to mean something.

BHP FAN
November 17, 2008, 10:01 PM
''Heck, for indoor fun I even load .25 pellets into .25acp shells with primer-only...just for giggles; sort of a ".25 Colibri"

How freakin' cool is that!?

BHP FAN
November 17, 2008, 10:02 PM
There is not one gun in any caliber that I do not covet.

cerberus65
November 17, 2008, 10:13 PM
7.62x39

I have a live round that I found at the range but I have nothing to chamber it in. Not too useful!

:-)

30mag
November 17, 2008, 10:34 PM
We kill snakes with shovels around here...
I suppose .410 does have less recoil, but I reckon .25 has less recoil than .45... doesn't make it better though.
I dare you to name something .410 does better than a 12 gauge.

I'll list most useful rifle cartridges:
.22LR
.243
.30-06

Shotgun:
12

I dare to say you NEED no others for hunting native game in North America.

30mag
November 17, 2008, 10:36 PM
Again, I don't hate .410.. but I'll never buy a gun in .410.

sparky923
November 17, 2008, 10:36 PM
Hey Loomis :neener: :D

I've got nothing against a 16 guage. My son has his grandfathers old Sweet 16 and it is a really good round. My point was the 20 is more versatile since they chambered it for magnum rounds. He hardly ever shoots it, but wears out his 20 870 express that he has had since he was 12.

My other son has a Browning 3.5 inch 12 guage. It has been used for skeet, ducks, squirrel, deer, and turkey. The magnum loads have made some of the intermediate rounds obsolete for the average gun owner that can't afford to buy a different gun for different applications.

30mag
November 17, 2008, 10:45 PM
And if you get a 12 gauge, and don't mind the recoil, you can kill pretty much anything.
Between slugs, buckshot, magnum shells, and birdshot, you can kill pretty much anything with the exception of ridiculously large game.
There is NOT a more versatile firearm than a 12 gauge.

jackstinson
November 18, 2008, 08:26 AM
I dare you to name something .410 does better than a 12 gauge.
A .410 fits far better into a Taurus Judge revolver cylinder or Bond derringer chamber than a 12ga does.
Hey, you dared us to name something. ;)

Mike2
November 18, 2008, 08:36 AM
That was toooooo funny!!!:wha:D:what::Dt:

EricTheBarbarian
November 18, 2008, 08:08 PM
Wow, I had no idea there were so many .410 fans. I'd never buy one, but I guess all the people that would are why they keep making them. If any caliber works for you, I guess it isn't useless to you. However, It may still be useless to me though:D

30mag
November 18, 2008, 09:46 PM
Fair enough.

I still don't see its utility.

ar10
November 18, 2008, 10:26 PM
If any caliber works for you, I guess it isn't useless to you.

Exactly;)

catfish101
November 18, 2008, 10:50 PM
It is hard to say what round I would pick. There allot of rounds that are unnecessary. A person could make a list of 10 rounds that would cover anything a person would ever need.

I like my .410. I keep mine handy for chicken eating critters. At close range they have plenty of power to do the job without blowing holes in walls. It does have it uses but I can see where, for many, it doesn't.

texaspunk
November 19, 2008, 07:17 PM
Wow, I was gonna rag on .410 until I read up the page a bit. I change my vote to the .25...

Ala Dan
November 19, 2008, 07:58 PM
the .25 ACP~! :barf: :(

I have NO use for one, and try too discourage other's from buying this
POS caliber~! Heck, give me a .22 LR; at least I would have a 50/50
chance~! :scrutiny: ;) :D

jad0110
November 19, 2008, 09:56 PM
The best response was the one that stated "the least useful caliber is the one you left at home or in the car when your life depends on it".

Revolvers chambered in .38. Not .357, just .38. There's just no point these days, as the .357's are heavier built can take the recoil better.

Not much point in paying the typical premium for a .357 if you ain't gonna use it. My little S&W 642 serves my needs perfectly (I don't do well with small 357s) and it cost a little less than a 640. It is also a tad smaller than the 640 (1 7/8" barrel versus 2 1/8"), so it is a bit better for pocket carry IMO. Plus, there are just too many sweet 38s out their to ignore :) .

usmc
November 19, 2008, 10:14 PM
I could not agree more with ALA DAN. I mean and super close ranges it is ok, I guess, but I would never try to make a head shot with a .25 ACP.:evil:

Anteater1717
November 20, 2008, 01:54 AM
7.62x45? Most people here, probably haven't even heard of it. It's the Czech predecessor of the 7.62x39.

Or the 5.6x39MPS, how many times have you shot a gun underwater?
Or .220 Russian the other 5.6x39mm?

.219 zipper, why?

All of the short magnums.

.256 Newton?

.250-3000 Savage?

5.6x50mmR and 5.6x50mm Magnum?

.32Rimfire or .25Rimfire?





Or...

.22lr to small for anything

.17HMR not .22Magnum
.22Magnum not .17HMR

.22Hornet extinct
.222Remington Not .223Remington

5.56x45NATO/.223Remington too small for combat
7.62x39 Trajectory of a rainbow

.30-30Whinchester Too old
.307Whinhester not .308Whinchester
.308Marlin Express Not .307 Winchester

.30TC Copy of .308Whinchester
.308Whinchester Copy of .300Savage
.300Savage Copy of the 30-06Springfield
30-06Springfield copy of the .30-40Krag
.30-40Krag too small compared to the .45-70Government

.45-70Government Too much recoil
.45-75WCF The oldest short magnum?

.25ACP Too small
.32ACP Too small
.380ACP Not 9mm
9mm .45ACP set on stun
.40S&W .40 Short and Weak
10mm It's been about to be extinct, for the past 20 years
.45GAP *** Glock?
.45ACP Fat slow and old



Why do we even bother?

When we have the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer!

expvideo
November 20, 2008, 11:22 AM
I could not agree more with ALA DAN. I mean and super close ranges it is ok, I guess, but I would never try to make a head shot with a .25 ACP.
No. No it's not.

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