I may have a convert.


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WNC Seabee
November 14, 2008, 11:58 AM
We had a couple of friends over last night and the discussion of course turns to Obama. One couple is very liberal and thinks that those Assault Weapons are just absolutely dastardly and should be kept off the streets to keep us all safe. You know the routine.

Anyway, as the discussion progressed they wanted to be clear that they don't care about taking away hunting rifles, that hunting is okay and THOSE guns are acceptable. "Military weapons" are just too powerful and dangerous!

I asked them to hold that thought for a second and went down to the man cave to retrieve a .30-06 round and a .223. Set both down on the table and asked them to pick which one should be banned. Of course, they both picked up the .30-06.

When I told them the "little bullet" was from my AR-15, they just got a befuddled look on their faces.

A little more education about semi-automatic vs. "spay fire" and I've at least got them thinking. Ended with an offer to visit the range that was not immediately turned down.

Baby steps....

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zminer
November 14, 2008, 01:00 PM
Well played! See, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405148). These types of people have no knowledge about guns, cartridge size, etc. because they've never encountered them before. But, upon being given evidence contrary to their beliefs, they are forced to address it. Hopefully this will end up with them going to the range and finding out that - at minimum - guns aren't evil, like they previously thought.

BBQLS1
November 14, 2008, 01:36 PM
:) Good Job!

Wedge
November 14, 2008, 01:59 PM
Hopefully they are not now thinking about banning that high powered armor piercing sniper rifle ammo.

Ron-Bon
November 14, 2008, 02:01 PM
Sensational:)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 14, 2008, 02:03 PM
Good job, man - You've just converted them from a "Let's ban assault weapons" kind of guy or gal, to a "Let's ban assault weapons AND sniper rifles" kind of guy or gal. ;)

MT GUNNY
November 14, 2008, 02:13 PM
If only the Media could show that!!

KBintheSLC
November 14, 2008, 02:23 PM
Good work. I recently had a "come to Jesus" with a doctor friend of mine from Pennsylvania. He is a rabid, anti-gun Obama lover. We got to talking about AK's, and he said he can't see a reason why we would ever need such a weapon.
I used some fear tactics and asked him what he would do if some crooked government dictatorship used the morbidly unpatriotic "Patriot Act" to brand him as a "terrorist", and raided his home for opposing the regime. I asked him what he would do with a little pistol or hunting rifle when his home was raided by a couple of dozen armed, and kevlar'd government henchmen. I reminded him about what the socialist henchmen, the KGB used to do in my native country. I reminded him of the 2 years my uncle spent in prison for speaking our against the socialists.
He replied, "I doubt I could do much... you raise an interesting point... I never looked at it that way before". Then I finished by informing him that the 2A is not about hunting or self defense... its about freedom.
I think I saw some wheels turning.

hso
November 14, 2008, 02:27 PM
Congratulations!

You just made all our work a little easier.

BBQLS1
November 14, 2008, 03:52 PM
KBintheSLC ask him to read "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab"

74shovel
November 14, 2008, 04:00 PM
Good for you. I have never understood how the other side thinks.

No Fear
November 14, 2008, 04:17 PM
One couple is very liberalHow is HE on guns? Does he own any? Have you spoken to him privately? I'd bet he's just going along to get along and if allowed to speak freely would want several guns (though maybe not an ebr yet).

RPCVYemen
November 14, 2008, 04:24 PM
Take'em shooting to cement the deal. Let them shoot an AR 15, and why a reasonable person would prefer that weapon for plinking, varmint shooting, etc.

Mike

WNC Seabee
November 14, 2008, 04:44 PM
How is HE on guns? Does he own any? Have you spoken to him privately? I'd bet he's just going along to get along and if allowed to speak freely would want several guns (though maybe not an ebr yet).

Actually, they are both very liberal. But I need to add that they are also incredibly "good" people. They don't just talk the liberal line, they're both doctors that actively give of their time and resources to help folks out. And they're respectful of other people's views.

I was most encouraged because we began the conversation with "You don't need...." and ended with, "well, maybe I see your point, I'll need to think about that." People actually conversing and exchanging views. Rather refreshing.

BHP FAN
November 14, 2008, 04:49 PM
You've just done the work a hundred NRA ads could never accomplish.I myself have made two or three converts over the past year.All that's needed really is a fun low recoil rifle,and good hearing and eye protection.I used my .357 Rossi levergun loaded with .38 low noise,low recoil ''cowboy'' loads.The lil' Liberal gal I was coaching [girlfriend of one of my 22 yr. old son's friends] was hitting well,her first shots ever,but soon got bored.She looked over at me and said ''I wanna shoot what YOU'RE shooting''.I'm shooting a Trapdoor .45-70....Well,''okey dokey,lil' lady'' says I,and before I can insruct her on flipping up the rear sight ladder,and to hug the rifle to mitigate recoil,BOOM!CLANG!She nails the 200yard gong! I figure,''beginners luck,let's see her do that again..'',and sure enough,she shoots every round I had left,[11 rounds] into the center of the 200 yrd. gong,with the battle sight.Biggest grin you ever saw on that little 98 pound Liberal.

WNC Seabee
November 14, 2008, 04:50 PM
Good job, man - You've just converted them from a "Let's ban assault weapons" kind of guy or gal, to a "Let's ban assault weapons AND sniper rifles" kind of guy or gal.

I was trying to be careful of that. I made sure to hit the "common hunting" round theme several times, talked about a trip out west I took muley hunitng, etc. before I did my side-by-side .30-06 vs. .223 thing.

I think the point was made without it being turned back on me.

WNC Seabee
November 14, 2008, 04:57 PM
I used some fear tactics and asked him what he would do if some crooked government dictatorship

This is exactly the line of discussion that I made sure to AVOID.

You have to now your audience, but if I had started spewing that kind of rhetoric, I would have lost them immediately and we would have been reduced to "you're just another conspiracy theorist nut that I wouldn't trust with my dog let alone a weapon."

Speak calmly and carry on an actual conversation rather than painting a SHTF scenario or jumping up and down and you're more likely to be listened too.

Remember, you're not going to sway the ideologues any way so work on those that will actually think about it.

Ignition Override
November 14, 2008, 05:09 PM
That was good planning at dinner.

My wife has a friend in her two vocal groups, and her husband is a doctor who commutes right now to Denver. Jill has at least an MA in Music.

Anyway, she is from Rochester, NY and often she says "XXXX, don't shoot anybody", as she smiles (she realizes that I shoot in a rural area, down into a deep river). :rolleyes:My response, "Roger that".

The higher the education (in many cases), the less the connection to reality.

offthepaper
November 14, 2008, 05:41 PM
How is HE on guns? Does he own any? Have you spoken to him privately? I'd bet he's just going along to get along and if allowed to speak freely would want several guns (though maybe not an ebr yet).

Fear
Are you still ranting on the him/her thing and FA's? :barf:
Sorry brother but, man, you've got issues.

KBintheSLC
November 14, 2008, 05:56 PM
This is exactly the line of discussion that I made sure to AVOID.

You have to now your audience, but if I had started spewing that kind of rhetoric, I would have lost them immediately and we would have been reduced to "you're just another conspiracy theorist nut that I wouldn't trust with my dog let alone a weapon."

It doesn't always have to go that way. I was exploiting a fear that I know he has built up from 8 years of dealing with Bush/Cheney's antics. I know that he fears the government, and I used that as leverage to make a powerful point.
It worked.

No Fear
November 14, 2008, 06:34 PM
It doesn't always have to go that way. I was exploiting a fear that I know he has built up from 8 years of dealing with Bush/Cheney's antics. I know that he fears the government, and I used that as leverage to make a powerful point.
It worked.Amen. If we're afraid of the TRUTH that the 2nd amendment exists to deal with tyranny, then people listening to us will sense our fear and not give us credibility. As long as you don't LEAD with the anti tyranny aspect or focus on it too long, most people can easily comprehend and sympathize with it. Everyone on the right AND the left can see that the federal "government" is now a tyrannical entity after citing a few simple examples.

David904
November 14, 2008, 07:59 PM
The higher the education (in many cases), the less the connection to reality.

Actually, the statistics say that most of the people who own firearms are those with higher educations and more money. Don't think that just because someone is educated that they have a reality disconnect.

Now... If you are talking about those who exist in the world of academia, I agree. Most are full of ivory tower education and low on real world experience. I do know a few exceptions though....

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