I thought it was just friendly capiltalism...


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againstthagrane
November 15, 2008, 03:46 PM
but holy crap was i wrong!

i called my (former, as of today) favorite gunshop to ask them how much the ps90s were going for and they told me they are selling a tri rail with a fake suppressor for $2800! i call today to speak to someone to get a better deal and guess what. it's now $3100! for a ps90 with a $150 FAKE suppressor! were talking a $1600 mark up! and $300 of it was in one day. needless to say i will not be purchasing ANYTHING from there ever again. it's a shame they have the most EBRs in the city, and with those prices they're likely to keep them all.

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Hoppy590
November 15, 2008, 03:51 PM
sounds like you need to find a new shop.

SaxonPig
November 15, 2008, 06:16 PM
Nobody ever said Capitalism was friendly.

Supply and demand.

If the Commies in Congress ban new guns then these were a good deal. If they confiscate them then it was wasted money. If no new laws are forthcoming then you should get a good deal on one eventually.

If there was a gun I really wanted I wouldn't wait until after a known Communist and gun hater got elected (and we all knew it was coming for months).

GTFord1
November 16, 2008, 06:22 PM
There are a ton of PS90s on Gunbroker a helluva lot cheaper than that.

Rshooter
November 16, 2008, 08:56 PM
DoubleStar lowers were going for $99.00 last week. $189.00 this week anywhere that has them. That's almost 100%.

cassandrasdaddy
November 16, 2008, 09:15 PM
100 % =markup is low in most industries what business is it that you gentlemen work in

PTK
November 16, 2008, 09:31 PM
I put together a SBR PS90 for less than that, along with 2k rounds of ammo, a spare barrel, and ten mags. :scrutiny:

Bubba613
November 16, 2008, 10:37 PM
Anyone of course is free not to buy at any price. I would bet the gun shop will have trouble replacing their inventory. So they need to get maximum value out of what they do have. For those who gotta have one, here is one available.

People need to stop thinking of gun shops as non-profit enterprises. Of course I own one so am biased.

Kenneth Lew
November 17, 2008, 02:18 AM
100 % =markup is low in most industries what business is it that you gentlemen work in

Most industries that I'm familiar with has a cost of goods sold at 70% of the retail price. I would like to know what industries you are familiar with have a > 100% markup. If a product has that much profitability, there will be a lot of competition to drive the price down.

PTK
November 17, 2008, 02:23 AM
Jewelry, watches, suits (not ones from overseas), etc. Mostly luxury items - which higher dollar firearms are.

jrou111
November 17, 2008, 02:55 AM
There's a new PS90 for sale here at a shop for $1299. :D

PTK
November 17, 2008, 03:17 AM
Honestly, if you want that, BUY IT. $1300 is a VERY good deal for a NIB PS90.

jrou111
November 17, 2008, 08:51 PM
But...I...don't....want...one.... :D

againstthagrane
November 18, 2008, 05:09 PM
yes a 100% mark up over cost would be normal in SOME businesses. definitely not all.

a 100% markup over RETAIL is flat out robbery

Zundfolge
November 18, 2008, 05:14 PM
a 100% markup over RETAIL is flat out robbery
Not if people are willing to pay it.

"The Market Value" of any given commodity is based not on what it cost to produce something, nor what it cost wholesale. The market value is based on what someone will pay.

If nobody will pay the price, then the price comes down.

cassandrasdaddy
November 18, 2008, 05:30 PM
a 100% markup over RETAIL is flat out robbery

really? what are the other costs involved? i know retail business where its 300 percent.
since you referred to it as a markup over retail i'm gonna guess you aren't in business

armoredman
November 18, 2008, 05:48 PM
When i worked medical supplies, a great deal was 100% over cost. When I worked at the gunshop, firearms were likely the only item they didn't price that way. The money in firearms retail isn't the guns, it's the accessories and peripherials.

Dravur
November 18, 2008, 06:02 PM
hmmmmm,

Just bought a lower at Jensen's this week. THey were sold out of almost everything, My lower was $104 after tax..,. Same price they had before the election.

Not all businesses jack the prices way up. On a side note. THey are sold out of almost everything.

Mahnmut
November 18, 2008, 06:48 PM
Saw one at a shop here in Missouri for 995....guy must just be trying to move it.

harmonic
November 18, 2008, 06:50 PM
100 % =markup is low in most industries what business is it that you gentlemen work in


Punctuation and composition is your friend.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
November 18, 2008, 06:55 PM
Went into my local pawn shop--has mostly military based things---had his prices all jacked up----screwed with lay-a-way --was 25% down then 90 days---now wants half down and only 30 days.

Since I'm a gun nut---I already have pretty much all I want.

He might get those prices--but not from me----maybe I'll go back in --in about 6 months when things get reasonable again.

againstthagrane
November 18, 2008, 07:11 PM
a 100% markup over RETAIL is flat out robbery

really? what are the other costs involved? i know retail business where its 300 percent.
since you referred to it as a markup over retail i'm gonna guess you aren't in business

please enlighten me. what business marks up all of their products 3x?

i didn't realize that in one day the business's costs went up so dramatically to induce a $1000 hike in one day and a $300 three days later.

i referred to it as marked up above retail because that's what it is.

i'm not in the gun biz so i don't know what cost is on guns. i'm going to guess that it's about 75 to 80% of msrp. so a ps90 that used to go for 1500 on nov 3rd probably cost the retailer somewhere between 1150 and 1350. that would be the COST. the RETAILer would then mark it up to the MSRP of around 1500-1600. so if the retailer would then mark it up another 100% we would be right around $3000-3200. that would mean that it's marked up 100% over RETAIL. :P

Save me the "if you wanted it so bad you should have bought it before the election" garbage. i don't have an unlimited supply of expendable funds to spend on guns like some of you "told ya so" types seem to have. i mean it would be great if i won $30000 a month before the election so that i could get every bannable(sp.?) thing i could think of, but unfortunately that didn't happen. not only that, but i have other hobbies and things going on in my life that detract from the gun fund. gibsons, fenders and mesa boogies aren't cheap either. fortunately they're not likely to be banned anytime soon.

cassandrasdaddy
November 18, 2008, 07:20 PM
jewelry cabinetry heck persian rugs are marked up 4 figures

give you a good example locally gun shop sells 6 maybe 7 guns a day he has insurance payroll advertising and 3500 a month rent. plus he likes to eat whats his markup gotta be to survive? whats he gotta take in every day?

Bubba613
November 18, 2008, 07:28 PM
Never run a retail business, I see.

Let's start with: mark up is the percentage of gross profit on the retail price of the item. So an item that costs the retailer $75 and sells for $100 has a 25% mark up.
So there is no "100% mark up" on any item, unless it was free. Many many businesses mark up "keystone", doubling their cost of the item. Some more than that, especially in women's clothing and gift items.
Guns are typically marked up by 1.24, giving a 19% mark up. That isn't much. Actually it sucks. Ammo is probably the same on the typical 9mm/40/45 range stuff. All that competing with Wal Mart hurts, and you have to carry it.
So that leaves accessories. Of course, if the item is expensive, people will just order it off the internet and then complain about how the local guy was trying to rip them off.
Finally, what would you consider a "reasonable" mark up? And what's it to you, anyway? You want the gun, buy it. If you can find one cheaper somewhere else, buy it there. If you think they'll be cheaper/more available in 6 months time, wait. What earthly difference does the dealer's profit make?

againstthagrane
November 18, 2008, 07:29 PM
ok this particular gun shop does NOT advertise.

i would assume that persian rugs are marked up so high because they are from a country that we have an embargo against, not to mention shipping. have you ever tried to move an 8'x15" foot persian rug? they have to weigh at least 100lbs. shipping across the atlantic for 100lbs isn't cheap.

i'm kind of confused by your syntax, do you mean 4 figures as in four digits or 400%?


additionally if you were to believe what EVERY gun store i've ever been to claims, they don't ever make money on the actual gun and that is not a big source of their income. just ask any random store to give you deal on a pistol. " i could give you 2% off if you pay cash, i don't make anything off of guns as it is...yada yada yada". so why the sudden greed? it's not like they were making a ton of money on the actual guns in the first place right? it's cashing in on people's fears in a big way and it isn't right. you may think it's right, and that's your wrong opinion(just a joke ;)) and you have your right to have it :)

ozarkhillbilly
November 18, 2008, 07:37 PM
I am not defending the gun shop, a p90 is not worth that much and the market says its not, but alot of bussiness mark up well over 300%. Ever bought a fountain drink anywhere, if so you paid over 300% mark up, have you ever bought anything at a movie theater if so.... I could go on and on but you get my point.

Bubba613
November 18, 2008, 07:37 PM
Ya know, it's really hard to feel sorry for someone whining about his local gun shop trying to make some money. I'll bet 60% of the customers I deal with ask "what's your best price on this?" If I don't budge, I doubt they'll buy it. So when the opportunity comes along to make some kind of decent money on a gun, I'll take it. I had no issue charging full MSRP on a Ruger LCP when I got one.
This isn't much difference. I have sold out of my ARs and AKs and I don't know when I'll get another in. Why shouldn't I maximize the amount of money I can get from what I do have? How is that ripping people off? Is there some store down the street selling them for lots less? Is this an item they can't live without?

cassandrasdaddy
November 18, 2008, 07:42 PM
Never run a retail business, I see.

too true

Eightball
November 18, 2008, 07:43 PM
Look at it this way: for a long time, firearms were marked up significantly less than other commodities, and we got complacent with that. What started it? When people started saying "oh, we'll only charge $5 above wholesale" in hopes of putting everyone else out of business, whereupon they raise their prices, people instead started price matching, forcing the prices (and profits) down. To my knowledge, the firearms industry is also one of the only industries that will charge a dealer "wholesale" discounts on 1 item ordered. Try to call up, oh, say, a cell phone manufacturer and try to get wholesale prices; "will that be on 100,000 units, or 150,000?" "uhm, just one." You'll get laughed off the phone, would be my bet.

Okay, so your local dealer is following the laws of supply and demand--there's a MASSIVE demand, and he has X number of items before his next shipment (which will be back-ordered for several months, no less). So, he raises his price so 1) he won't instantly be out of stock, and 2) he can re-order from the manufacturers, most of whom have also jacked their prices so THEY won't be instantly out of stock of everything (and they are anyway)--so they raise their price to keep from having a backlog of 2 years worth of production, or some crazy amount.

The solution? You can simply not pay the price he wants, and not get the item, letting you search elsewhere to get a better deal. You can not buy the item at all, and hope they aren't banned, or buy it in a hedge bet against the inevitable. Or, you can boycott your local FFL because the nation's gone crazy in a buying spree and prices EVERYWHERE have risen; hopefully, he'll go out of business for following a logical, capitalistic solution for supply and demand, and you will have a harder time finding firearms or good deals (because there's less competition).

Yeah, let's boycott all FFLs who are following a logical business plan, so they'll go out of business, and NO ONE will be able to obtain firearms or ammunition! Yeah, that'll show them! :rolleyes:

Really, guys......it's supply and demand, basic economics. The cause of the increase might not be just to pocket more money, but to be able to re-order from the manufacturer whose prices have gone up. With the political winds blowing the way they were, are you REALLY surprised at this?





I, for one, bought something and helped support the industry--because they're damn sure going to need the $$$ to fight all the inevitable court battles, so that we can keep our RKBA. Or you can hope all the "evil," profit-mongering gun companies go out of business, because that'll show 'em!

againstthagrane
November 18, 2008, 07:43 PM
Let's start with: mark up is the percentage of gross profit on the retail price of the item. So an item that costs the retailer $75 and sells for $100 has a 25% mark up.

i stand corrected. so then his attempt to "keystone" is not going to win him any fans. i'm not here to argue semantics.

it's not good business practice. i know his cost didn't go up.

if a restaurant raises the price of pizza because the price of tomatoes goes up that's cool. if a restaurant raises the price of a $10 pizza up to $17 and then up to $20 in two days just because a bunch of people on the internet are freaking out with no real rise in the price of commodities i'm going to stop eating pizza at said place. haha

just like he has the right to raise the price, i have the right to never buy anything from him due to what i view as shadiness and greed.

Bubba613
November 18, 2008, 07:46 PM
You absolutely have every right to spend your money wherever you want.
But I would about guarantee that the next time he has something you're looking for at a cheaper price than you've seen elsewhere you'll be back.

againstthagrane
November 18, 2008, 07:51 PM
Ya know, it's really hard to feel sorry for someone whining about his local gun shop trying to make some money. I'll bet 60% of the customers I deal with ask "what's your best price on this?" If I don't budge, I doubt they'll buy it.

spoken like a true disgruntled gun store employee, lmao.

Is there some store down the street selling them for lots less?

since you ask...yes :). the one i picked up two days ago was 1650. it was marked at 1900 and he gave me 15% off. he said he can get them all day. ak's and ar's are another story.

i wasn't whining, i was pointing out how unscrupulous some retailers are. how they take advantage of people's fears. judging by your responses, i'm sure i wouldn't frequent any of your establishments either. anything else you have to say regarding free enterprise and how i should quit whining will fall on deaf ears :). it's time for me to watch some deadwood and have a beer.

Eightball
November 18, 2008, 07:52 PM
i know his cost didn't go up.How so? Massive consumer demand=more strain on workers. Maybe he hired more workers, maybe not. Or maybe, just maybe, the cost of replacing his current inventory went up due to increased demand of production from the manufacturer.

And it's not just people on the internet "freaking out." The nation just elected a whole slew of anti-gunners to run the nation, most of whom pledge to ban a ton of things, and the populace that still has half a brain sees the writing on the wall, and is buying while they still can. Demand has risen exponentially, and supply has not increased in the last few days at a local level, so the logical solution is a hike in prices; alternatively, demand has spiked, and his resupply cost has also spiked, so he charges more so he can cover the cost of resupply without going bankrupt.

just like he has the right to raise the price, i have the right to never buy anything from him due to what i view as shadiness and greed.While you do have that right, what you perceive as "shadiness and greed" is how the market works. Because let's hope he (and all other firearms manufacturers/distributors/sellers) go out of business due to their "shadiness and greed" in raising prices--that'll show people! It won't matter that there will be no more firearms produced, or any massive compnaies with the capital to pursue court cases to keep our RKBA--they were "shady and greedy," and thus should not have raised prices, so they should go out of business.

To me, your logic doesn't make sense in the giant scheme of things. Yeah, you have the right not to buy things--but you're also betting against the political climate, which is influencing the market, and may soon eliminate the possibility of more supply.

againstthagrane
November 18, 2008, 07:53 PM
[QUOTE]You absolutely have every right to spend your money wherever you want.
But I would about guarantee that the next time he has something you're looking for at a cheaper price than you've seen elsewhere you'll be back./QUOTE]

you have NO idea about the strength of my resolve :). i have paid $100 more for the exact same gun out of principle to avoid a certain gunshop which will remain nameless. so no, i will NOT be going back there. deal or no deal.

Bubba613
November 18, 2008, 07:57 PM
since you ask...yes . the one i picked up two days ago was 1650. it was marked at 1900 and he gave me 15% off. he said he can get them all day. ak's and ar's are another story.

Wait. So you found what you wanted at a price you could live with. And what is it you are bitching about again?? If I went around bitching about a seller every time I found what I wanted cheaper I wouldn't be doing anything else in life.

cassandrasdaddy
November 18, 2008, 08:01 PM
his cost did go up he'll have to pay more to replace it or close shop

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 19, 2008, 12:37 AM
Simple: They may not be able to replenish their inventory of EBRs for several weeks if not a couple of months. So given that if they left the price lower it would sell in a heartbeat, then they'd have empty shelves for a few weeks or months. You cannot make money with empty shelves, and so they have to mark it up enough to cover the profit they're going to lose from having empty shelves after it sells. Simple supply and demand is all it is - they do what they need to do to stay in business and turn a profit, given that they're gonna see little to no profit for many weeks once their inventory runs dry or very low.

No, his cost in THAT item did not go up. But that's not the only relevant cost. The opportunity cost lost of not having inventory described above must also be taken into account. If they can't make sales for a few weeks, then they've got no money to pay their employees and bills, so....

I guess you can tell I'm in business for myself.

HK G3
November 19, 2008, 03:48 AM
It's not capitalism when the government manipulates the market...

againstthagrane
November 19, 2008, 04:53 AM
Simple: They may not be able to replenish their inventory of EBRs for several weeks if not a couple of months. So given that if they left the price lower it would sell in a heartbeat, then they'd have empty shelves for a few weeks or months. You cannot make money with empty shelves, and so they have to mark it up enough to cover the profit they're going to lose from having empty shelves after it sells. Simple supply and demand is all it is - they do what they need to do to stay in business and turn a profit, given that they're gonna see little to no profit for many weeks once their inventory runs dry or very low.

No, his cost in THAT item did not go up. But that's not the only relevant cost. The opportunity cost lost of not having inventory described above must also be taken into account. If they can't make sales for a few weeks, then they've got no money to pay their employees and bills, so....


congratulations for having the first constructive replies on the thread. that actually makes sense.

coloradokevin
November 19, 2008, 05:35 AM
hmmmmm,

Just bought a lower at Jensen's this week. THey were sold out of almost everything, My lower was $104 after tax..,. Same price they had before the election.

Not all businesses jack the prices way up. On a side note. THey are sold out of almost everything.

Too bad they are low on supplies too... I was thinking about heading up there this week to see what they had!

But, I've always had good luck with Jensen's in the past, and they seem like a very stand-up operation. I'm glad to hear that they aren't gouging their customers during this short-term panic buying spree!

MachIVshooter
November 19, 2008, 09:53 AM
My take on it is that anyone can try to charge whatever they want for a given item. This shop doesn't have a monopoly, and anyone who is too lazy to check the average market price and pays double on an impulse buy deserves to get ripped off.

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