Euroarms Of America .44 cal black powder.


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Inthewind
November 16, 2008, 12:08 AM
Hello,

I recently became interested in revisiting my late fathers Euroarms of America .44 cal new model army black powder revolver. The gentleman at the black powder gun store handed me a box of Hornady .45 cal (.457) lead round balls for use in my .44 caliber revolver. I questioned the caliber difference but was ensured that I could shoot .45 caliber balls from my .44 caliber barrel. Is this a true statement or am I in danger of injury.

Thank you in advance for your help.

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Smokin_Gun
November 16, 2008, 01:31 AM
He gave you the right boolits, .457" round ball.
Here's 3 .44 Euroarms Rems and a ..36 Euroarms Rem... .457" in the .44's and... .380 in the .36.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/10-13-08_1725.jpg

SG

mykeal
November 16, 2008, 07:05 AM
The caliber designations on bp revolvers refers to the lands in the bore, and even then there is some 'poetic license'. Unlike the single shot pistols, rifles and smoothbore long guns that shoot a patched or saboted projectile, bp revolver ammunition is oversize for the bore. It's soft lead, and when it's loaded into the chamber a small lead ring is shaved off (look for this to happen - it's important); that operation is called 'swaging' the ball, and it forms the ball to the chamber so that there is a gas seal. The ball is still slightly oversize to the bore at this point; when the powder is ignited the gas forces the ball into the bore where the oversize condition ensures the ball engages the rifling, thus imparting the stabilizing spin.

.44 cal revolvers will use balls sized at .451, .454 or .457; which one depends on the brand and model of gun. If the lead ring is not produced on loading, move up to the next larger size. If it's too difficult to press the ball into the chamber, move down one size, as long as the lead ring is produced.

.36 cal revolvers will use either a .375 or .380 ball, again depending on the brand and model.

Inthewind
November 16, 2008, 09:00 AM
Smokin_Gun and Mykeal,

Thank you both very much for taking the time to reply to my question.

Your feed back is truly appreciated.

Have a great day!

Hellgate
November 17, 2008, 12:23 AM
Inthewind,
One difference between the Euroarms Remingtons and the Pietta & Ubertis is the chambers of the Euros are chamfered and you will not get a ring of lead shaved unless you use a greatly oversized ball (which is unnecessary). The Piettas I used to own and my Ubertis all shaved lead but the Euros SWAGE the ball as it is seated so you won't get the ring as the chamber mouths are beveled a little bit.I have used the .454 ball in every 44 cal I own which includes both Colt models ('51/44. '60, Dragoon, & Walkers) and Uberti & Euro Remingtons)

Smokin_Gun
November 17, 2008, 02:41 AM
Euros SWAGE the ball as it is seated so you won't get the ring as the chamber mouths are beveled a little bit

I get a .001" lead ring when I load .457" balls into any one of my three ASP & Euroarms Revs with a deeper chamfer at the mouth of the chambers. I don't with .454" balls and have witnessed the balls forward movement of the
.454" diameter balls after initail recoil. And that is why I use the .457" balls in them...check your balls.

SG

Calibre44
November 17, 2008, 04:17 PM
Jeez SG ... how many BP Revolvers do you have!!?

Every time I see one of your photos there seem to be more and more!

Beautiful looking pieces.

Hellgate
November 17, 2008, 04:27 PM
So far, I have not had "ball creep" (NOT a venereal disease!) with .454 diameter balls in my Euros so I guess I'm lucky.

Smokin_Gun
November 17, 2008, 11:39 PM
Jeez SG ... how many BP Revolvers do you have!!?


I have 32 BP Revs of various makes, models and years.
The only reason i know how many cause I was asked that question a couple weeks ago and honestly din't know.
Rifles only 3, an 1859-63 Sharps Armi Sport .54 Paper Cart. I jus' got for a Buffalo Hunt ths spring I was invited to. An 1863 Remington .58 cal Zouave, and Miroku Tennessee Poorboy .50 cal about 22yrs. old.

That's about it...and stopped going to GunBroker...LoL!

SG

DixieTexian
November 18, 2008, 01:21 AM
So far, I have...had...a venereal disease!

Say WHAT?

madcratebuilder
November 18, 2008, 10:14 AM
Hey SG, I wrote down 32 revolvers on the calender and I'm welling to bet that the number GROWS some in the next year. That is if I don't out bid YOU.:D

arcticap
November 18, 2008, 02:08 PM
What I want to know is how many guns can smokin gun manage to strap on at the same time? There must be a finite number! :D

mykeal
November 18, 2008, 03:06 PM
Here's a challenge:

The guy that did my CCW training came to class the last day with 32 concealed pistols on his body. He asked us to guess how many he was carrying before he disclosed them; the highest guess was 16.

SG - you up for it? Pictures will be required...

Smokin_Gun
November 18, 2008, 09:03 PM
Hey SG, I wrote down 32 revolvers on the calender and I'm welling to bet that the number GROWS some in the next year. That is if I don't out bid YOU.


Oooops make that 33 Revs.
The SN 925, Model Centennial 1960 NMA Centaure deal went down this mornin'...but this one was already in the works.

SG

Smokin_Gun
November 18, 2008, 09:07 PM
Only three at a time and a rifle in hand Arcticap... two Rems and a 62' Colt Pocket Police, with a .54 Sharps.

SG

Smokin_Gun
November 18, 2008, 09:11 PM
SG - you up for it? Pictures will be required...

Thanks for the challenge Mykeal butt I ain't big enough to hide them all.
And it jus' plumb tuckered me out countin' um...kept losin' my place lookin' at um. Probly counted um 20 times ta get it right.

SG

Smokin_Gun
November 18, 2008, 09:27 PM
Mykeal you said 32 consealed Revs with Pictures, right?

Ok I'll bet ya a .45 Colt BP cartridge I can do it...(((handshake)))

Remember you asked me now...


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/Consealed1.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/Consealed2.jpg

Ok now this is 32 Revs +Plus...HeeHee!

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/CrittersNpeople/HawkHeart.jpg


SG

BHP FAN
November 18, 2008, 10:53 PM
Thats one sweet 'hawk.

mykeal
November 18, 2008, 11:14 PM
Well, I could make you open that safe and show me the guns, but I know damn good and well you could do it, so, yep, y'all win!

The majority of the guns the instructor was carrying were snubby .357 magnum revolvers (just one .380 Kimber semiauto), including 19 (that's NINETEEN) Model 60 S&W's - the ultimate Chicago speedloader. He was a bit portly and did have on a 4X flannel shirt, untucked.

Smokin_Gun
November 19, 2008, 02:56 AM
32 concealed revs though is pretty impressive...

........................................................................................................

Ok Mykeal since you honored my trust an I like ya here's a sort of reveal, for your eyes only.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/11-18-08_2325.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/11-18-08_2334.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/11-18-08_2331.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/11-18-08_2332.jpg
My Dogs Apollo(Black) and Remington(Tan, a recent 6mo. old stray) drank too many water bottles tonite tryin' to keep up with Dad drinkin' Old Milwaukee NA (non-alcoholic Beer)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/Smokin%20Gun%20Stuff/11-18-08_2335.jpg

SG

Inthewind
April 25, 2009, 02:25 AM
Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your replies to my previous questions. Thanks’ to you folks, I have learned a great deal about my revolver but most importantly safety when dealing with black powder.

I have another question pertaining to "Conversion Cylinders" for my Euroarms of America .44 Cal black powder revolver. Unfortunately, I am limited to certain times and days of the week when shooting my black powder at my favorite indoor range due to what they call a nuisance for the other shooters. This is due to the smoke they claim and the closest outdoor range is in excess of 1.25 hours away.

Because of this issue, I have been researching conversion cylinders. Unfortunately I am confused as to what make and caliber cylinder to purchase. I have read that it is preferred to use a cylinder that houses .45 Cal. ACP cartridges rather than a .44 Cal. cartridge because of the slightly wider diameter of the .45 Cal. ACP bullet which mates with the rifling better. Is this true and safe?

Could anyone recommend a conversion cylinder (make and caliber) that will mate with my Euroarms of America? If anyone knows of a place where I could order one on line, I sure would appreciate the input.

All the best and thank you.

Larry Isreal
May 2, 2010, 01:17 AM
New to all this, just acquired a .44 cal black powder from a friend. He knows next to nothing about this revolver and I even less than that. It has the names " Rogers&Spencer " Utica N-Y on the top. Appears to have most of the original finish, and the handles seem to be original. Can anyone help ID this revolver?:confused:

mykeal
May 2, 2010, 07:43 AM
Pictures would help a great deal.

Here is my Euroarms Rogers & Spencer:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Rogers%20and%20Spencer/624.jpg

There should be a square box containing two capital letters stamped on the frame; those letters are a date code defining the year the gun was proof tested. There will also be two stamps that look like crests; one has the letters PN with a star and garland above and the other a square box with crest inside and the same star and garland above. These are the proof house marks.

The Rogers & Spencer is an excellent design and the Euroarms reproduction is very good quality, the combination being nearly on a par with the Ruger Old Army. It's one of my top three favorite guns.

madcratebuilder
May 2, 2010, 08:41 AM
Look for any tell tale Italian makers marking. "Black Powder Only" is one most common mark normally on the barrel. Proof marks as mykeal said. Photo's would be a big help, you may have an original, they are not that uncommon.

Here's a Armi San Paolo made R&S with adjustable front sight added.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/Rogers1.jpg

Larry Isreal
May 16, 2010, 05:37 PM
Mykeal,
Thanks for the info you shared on my Rodgers and Spencer .44 cal Black powder revolver.I have all the proof house marks you refer to in your post.,PN with the star and garland above. Also a square box with crest inside and the same star and garland. Condition aside , mine is identical to the one you have posted. Is yours a reproduction or an original? How can I determine if mine is an original or not? I appreciate your informative reply, Thanks

mykeal
May 16, 2010, 06:38 PM
Mine, and yours, are replicas.

An original will not have the Italian proof house marks.

Larry Isreal
May 16, 2010, 10:37 PM
Mykeal,
Thank you for your prompt reply. I am a complete novice to all this, but if I decide to cultivate an interest in Black powder revolvers, where should I start? I thought about getting a " Starter Package " that has everything I will need except BP and lead balls. Is this the way to go?I have been exploring a site called " Cabela's" and they seem to have everything I believe I need. What about "Pyrodex" smokeless powder? and something called "Sabot's" I sincerely hope that my ignorance on this subject is not boring you as that is not my intent. It's just that a part of me really wants to learn and another part is saying it's too much to learn and just see what I could salvage by trying to sell or trade my BP revolver.

mykeal
May 16, 2010, 11:28 PM
The best place to start is the 'sticky' thread at the top of this forum. It contains several very useful articles for the beginning bp shooter. Of particular interest to you will be Gatofeo's posts, but you'll want to read others as well.

The starter kits are fine; you can probably save a couple bucks by shopping around and buying things separately, and there may be some things you don't really need, but it's only worth your time if you have little else to do. Cabela's is a well regarded source and they do indeed have all you will need; others are Track of the Wolf, Jedediah Starr, Cain's Outdoors, Log Cabin Shop, The Possibles Shop, October Country, Dixie Gun Works and many others.

Pyrodex is not smokeless powder, it's what's called a substitute black powder. There are other brands of bp substitutes, such as Triple 7, Jim Shockey's, American Pioneer. I personally much prefer to use real black powder, but I have no problem with anyone starting with one of the substitute bp's. Incidentally, smokeless powder must never, ever be used in a gun designed to use black powder. Serious injury or death can and will likely occur. If your powder doesn't say 'black powder' or 'substitute black powder', or if you don't know what it is, do not use it in a black powder gun.

Sabots are small containers that carry bullets that are themselves smaller than the gun's bore. You can shoot .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal gun using sabots. Black powder revolvers do not use sabots, so if you are just interested in bp revolvers you needn't be concerned about sabots.

Finally, I very highly recommend two books: Percussion Pistols and Revolvers, History, Performance and Practical Use by Cumpston and Bates, and the Lyman Black Powder Handbook. Both are available from amazon.com.

Larry Isreal
May 17, 2010, 01:48 PM
Mykeal,
Thank You very much, especially the never use smokeless powder in a gun designed to black powder. Mine clearly states " black powder only " on the side of the barrel.Thanks much

Meridianite
May 27, 2010, 04:16 PM
Please pardon my ignorance. What is a Rev?

mykeal
May 27, 2010, 06:39 PM
A Rev is a revolver.

Meridianite
May 27, 2010, 11:22 PM
Thanks.

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