[Thin Black Line]

I know it's hard to tell deer apart unless you have a lot of experience and
know your deer herd and land well, but how has this year been compared to
past years? If you'd like to comment on the number of years you've been
out in the field, state(s) you hunt, and other anecdotal observations, please
feel free to do so.

[Geno]

I am seeing more bucks. In a single day I saw more bucks than I usually see in a whole season. My brother and cousin commented the same.

[Shawnee]

We're overrun with deer - even more so than usual - so I answered "more" on the poll.

:cool:

[Thin Black Line]

I was seeing far less than this from the start, but we also have a lot of
hunting pressure in my area (too many people):

A deer’s home range averages about 500 acres. In mountains, the home
range may exceed 1,000 acres. Even though this size area can support about
40 deer, these animals will not always stay just within their home range. Many
will travel on and off that amount of land at different times of the year looking
for the best food and cover available.

BTW, I have 10 years on one piece of land and I'm seeing less, but the area
also has an increase in houses (and people hunting) from 10 years ago. I use
to see deer in "packs" of 8-12, but I'm now lucky to ever see more than 5-6
together (off season and no pressure). More of the deer I'm seeing are also
smaller (younger).

[Thin Black Line]

OMG, look at the time! I need to head back out!!!

[alsaqr]

Last year there was a bumper crop of acorns in this area: As a result there are lots of .5 year old deer running all over the place. Many are twins. There is a bumper crop of acorns again this year.

Problem is that the hog population is far outstripping the deer population. The state of OK has not gotten serious about hogs.

[Thin Black Line]

Saw 3 small doe and one spike buck for the entire day...pathetic....

[Thin Black Line]

Thanks for the votes...polls are still open...

[Thin Black Line]

Another hunting weekend for data. Looks fairly even so far, but still a
small sample size.

[stiab]

Definitely MORE for me, and I voted as such. When I had gun hunted six times this year (not six days, but six 2.5 hour sessions) I had seen four bucks. Before the season started I had noticed there was more deer sign than any previous year in recent history, and that translated into seeing more deer after the season opened.

[frogomatic]

I've seem more deer this year, but I've spent far more time out than I have in previous years. Usually I go out on opening day, bag a doe or two, and I'm done for the year. This year I've been after a really nice buck I keep seeing around, so I've been out alot more. One thing I have noticed is that I'm seeing ALOT of bucks, and almost no does. Seriously, I saw one antlerless deer this year, I shot it, and found out that it was a young buck that had his rack broken off, not to mention that open wounds on his head and the limp he was walking with, by some older bigger buck. Everything else I've seen has been in the 4-8 point range, and then there is that 5x5 I've got my eyes out for.

[Thin Black Line]

Thanks for the voting/comments so far. As I mentioned earlier, I've seen a
decrease in deer in my tiny area which appears due to hunting pressure.
This is not just due to my own hunting (I self-limit to 1/season and I may
just pass up again altogether this year), but there's other people who border
directly on my property who add to the numbers actively hunting and I doubt
they impose the same self-restriction. I'm getting similar news on "poor" deer
from people in surrounding counties who are longtime experienced hunters.
We did experience a human/population boom in the last 10 years in these
counties. My thought is people who are seeing "more" bucks may be living
in areas that haven't had the increase in humans.

Add an additional ingredient to the situation around here: People who normally
don't hunt are already saying they will be actively hunting next year if they
are laid off, food/gas prices go up, etc.

Let's just say I'm seeing some problems in advance.

[HunterGirl]

Big drop in sightings of actual deer....but not in sign. They were out there - they just weren't moving during the shooting hours.

[Thin Black Line]

We have some "mostly" nocturnal deer here, too. At one time I used the trail
cameras and it didn't show me anything from the night-time that I eventually
would see during the one of the days at my choke points.

[Geno]

Update info. To date, I have seen considerably fewer deer, but more bucks. In fact, the ratio of buck to doe has been nearly 50/50. That is shocking. In years past, we were fortunate to see a single buck through the entire season, but would see a couple dozen doe each day, early morning and late afternoon. Yet, I hear persistent clamoring that Michigan's deer population is exploding. <<Confused>>

Doc2005

[Thin Black Line]

I think you are seeing the results of 10+ years[?] of OTC doe tags taking
its toll. One buck can mate with many does, but once pregnant a single
adult doe still has to carry to full-term. If the overall pool of adult does is
reduced and can't hit replacement rate, then the population will be reduced
as hunters take both bucks and does (but more does). Trust me, the nitwit
on the property next to mine is attempting to harvest every doe that steps
out of my woods right now. It's the "I'm gonna fill every tag I paid for"
mentality that will make for a poorer pool for us all next year as a result.

And, of course, MI has to have a lot of deer right now since it's their
key domestic industry. Who is going to support all of those hotels, restaurants,
sporting goods store except hunters right now? The autoworkers can't!

This is just MHO since I'm not a wildlife biologist and didn't audition to play
one on TV. I can count, though, since I received an education before
Outcome Based Ed became the norm.

I just want to be clear that there are management issues in my area and
some surrounding counties and that is not the case elsewhere even in the
same state. I would just encourage people to continue good management
and think long-term!

[Twig]

Well I hunt in zone 241 in Minnesota.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/outdoor_activities/hunting/deer/deer_density_prefawn_2008.pdf

I don't know if I believe the stats. One deer spotted in 6 days of hunting.

That is less than any other time I can recall. :confused:

[bang_bang]

In my area, the deer population is outrageous. The Doe/Buck ratio is way off, and more does do need to be taken. Not every doe, but the old ones in the field. Where I hunt, the genes are there, just so many inbred does for the big boys to mate. I'm working on it though.

[Thin Black Line]

Thanks to the ppl who voted #4 as well:

I've hunted one property <3 years (not much of a baseline).

If you are a "new" deer hunter to an area and haven't voted in this poll yet,
please vote that option.

[Thin Black Line]

Regular firearm deer season has now closed, but the polls have not.

[Cocked & Locked]

I'm seeing less this season. It ends here on Jan 1. :scrutiny:

[Thin Black Line]

A lot of places will still have a late shotgun/muzzle loader for antlerless
and archery will run until the end of the month. Majority of hunters still
go out during the regular firearm portion. I think what people will have
seen through now will probably be the best measure, but I believe I set
the poll for 30 days from first post.

[BP44]

Well, I live in oregon so it is blacktail hunting for me and our deer herd has gone WAY down over the last 15-20 years. unlike the Eastern states where i hear about doe harvesting and maintaining the buck to doe ratio we need all of our does out west. the way I see it one buck will service 15-20 doe's a season where if we kill out all off our doe population we stop the growth of the herd. I am a Anti doe hunter but i do understand the basics of herd management and I am ok with it if it is done in a area that needs it but here in oregon it doesnt.

[ccsniper]

if i see a deer in the deer woods look for a blue moon. when i go deer hunting all i see is squirrel, and an 8 mil mauser is a bad thing to hit a squirrel with. when i go squirrel hunting with a remington 512, nothing but deer. so now i take a .22 mag revolver and the mauser, i see nothing at all!

[csd4682]

Hey Bang Bang, Im in central VA, and couldnt agree more. This is my first year hunting, but I have always been for a longer season, and more doe days. There are far too many in our area. Now on the flip side, for some reason I cant ever seem to see anything when I go out. I think its location, since this is my first year, I dont really have any contacts built up, or hot spots to go to. I kinda just have to take what I can get as far as land to hunt on.

[Thin Black Line]

11 more days to vote.

All I see now are small doe on my property.

[stiab]

I have now seen 7 bucks and killed 4 of them. According to an NRA hunting mag of a couple years ago I live in one of the areas where there is the highest deer density anywhere in the US - 49 per square mile. My county has the second highest ratio of bucks killed per square mile of any where in NC (over 6 per square mile). Of course, all this means is that...

...I AM VERY LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!

Got this one on opening morning...
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/481405/1105271/339446936.jpg

[moooose102]

the michigan dnr keeps blowing sunshine up our backsides, but everyone i know is saying the same as me. way less deer than in the past. i think the dnr only takes deer populations in the cities. and they let the car/deer accident numbers be thier count.

[Thin Black Line]

Stiab --interesting quote:

According to an NRA hunting mag of a couple years ago I live in one of the areas where there is the highest deer density anywhere in the US - 49 per square mile. My county has the second highest ratio of bucks killed per square mile of any where in NC (over 6 per square mile).

When compared to the one I found from some wildlife biologist's report
elsewhere and quoted earlier:

A deer’s home range averages about 500 acres. In mountains, the home
range may exceed 1,000 acres. Even though this size area can support about
40 deer, these animals will not always stay just within their home range.

Moose101:

the michigan dnr keeps blowing sunshine up our backsides, but everyone i know is saying the same as me. way less deer than in the past. i think the dnr only takes deer populations in the cities. and they let the car/deer accident numbers be thier count.

Michigan relies on a voluntary check-in of deer killed don't they? Do they
even send out questionnaires to hunters?

MI and IN both have doe hunting --and maybe too much of it now. I recall
it was a very big deal in northern IN when doe hunting during the regular
firearm season was opened in 90s, there were a limited number of tags and no
more than 1 per hunter. A friend who still lives there told me everyone got
up to 3 per hunter this year.

Does MI still allow unlimited over the counter purchases of doe tags for
private land? This could be a part of the problem.

I wouldn't doubt that car/deer accidents are taken into consideration on a
county by county basis. Considering that most areas went through a major
building boom in housing with many new subdivisions being built "out in the
country", I have no doubt that the car/deer accidents increased. However,
this doesn't mean the deer population increased.

[Thin Black Line]

In the areas that report more deer, could this be due to a fixed (or less)
amount of hunters in that area? For instance given Stiab reports that he
has a lot of deer, how much has the human/hunter population actually
changed in his area? Are there the same old farmhouses and stable large
properties or have new subdivisions been built on every county block?

[gunmn74]

I live in Cenral Kansas and this year you could buy a state wide
either sex tag good for all seasons and up to 8 antlerless tags.
I was archery hunting being picky and passed more small
bucks than I have seen in the last 5 years combined.
I only saw one good shooter and I needed a rifle for him but
now it is also rifle season and I may take a rifle with as a
backup plan.

[Olympus]

I hunt central Missouri and the last two years we have seen a dramatic decrease in the number of deer we see. We have also seen a dramatic decrease in the amount of other hunters and campsites in the area as well. So I don't know how much of that is due to the fact that there are less hunters in the woods moving around and pushing the deer around or what. Also this year, there has been a very large acorn crop. Conservation agents tell us that deer are less likely to wander around looking for food and will likely only move for rut. The agent also told us that this year close to 25% of Missouri's deer population was lost to blue-tongue. Don't know if it's true or not, but it's disheartening.

[Thin Black Line]

Also this year, there has been a very large acorn crop. Conservation agents tell us that deer are less likely to wander around looking for food and will likely only move for rut. The agent also told us that this year close to 25% of Missouri's deer population was lost to blue-tongue.

Interesting. And on a side note since we've been discussing animal
populations, I guess the acorn "crop" which feed them has been very
poor in other areas of the US:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/29/AR2008112902045.html?hpid=topnews

The idea seemed too crazy to Rod Simmons, a measured, careful field botanist. Naturalists in Arlington County couldn't find any acorns. None. No hickory nuts, either. Then he went out to look for himself. He came up with nothing. Nothing crunched underfoot. Nothing hit him on the head.

Then calls started coming in about crazy squirrels. Starving, skinny squirrels eating garbage, inhaling bird feed, greedily demolishing pumpkins. Squirrels boldly scampering into the road. And a lot more calls about squirrel roadkill.

But Simmons really got spooked when he was teaching a class on identifying oak and hickory trees late last month. For 2 1/2 miles, Simmons and other naturalists hiked through Northern Virginia oak and hickory forests. They sifted through leaves on the ground, dug in the dirt and peered into the tree canopies. Nothing.

I will spare THR a separate thread on "Compared to past years, how many
different squirrel are you seeing". Suffice to say I recall early last Fall that
the little critters were unusually very busy storing for winter because I made
a mental note that it was like nothing I had ever seen before.

A lot of us living here in the midwest will have cropland available to feed
the deer from mid-Summer thru the Fall, but then there's the winter....

Getting back to this:

The agent also told us that this year close to 25% of Missouri's deer population was lost to blue-tongue.

Are doe permits being issued in your state?

[Alfred Nesbitt]

Here in Central W.Va. we are over run with does, in this county anyway. We were only allowed one doe here this year during gun season, but I would like to have seen many more taken.

[stiab]

Stiab --interesting quote:


Quote:
According to an NRA hunting mag of a couple years ago I live in one of the areas where there is the highest deer density anywhere in the US - 49 per square mile. My county has the second highest ratio of bucks killed per square mile of any where in NC (over 6 per square mile).


The article I referred to begins on P. 66 of the December 2005 issue of the NRA's American Hunter. I did misquote something: where I said 49 per square mile the article actually says "Greater than 45".

Edited to add: The above numbers seem to align pretty well with those quoted by Thin Black Line, where he says 500 acres can support about 40 deer, since a square mile is 640 acres. End of edit.

The area where I live is not heavily developed, or even lightly developed. You cannot see my house from the road, and straight out my backdoor it is 1.3 miles (by my GPS) until you come to another house, which is on a dirt road. I only hunt my 6 acres and an adjoining 5 acres, but am surrounded by thousands of acres of habitat. It is a great setup, and I am lucky to have it, although most people probably would not trade houses with me.... :)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/481405/1105271/257635492.jpg

[Cocked & Locked]

STIAB...nice big buck and nice house! I'm envious.

[ds/ks]

I've hunted the same area since 1991, only during rifle season. When I started deer hunting 17 years ago, Kansas still used the lottery system. They always had more tags than applications, but a few years my dad received a doe only tag. There was a very limited number of out of state tags available.

My dad and I only hunt public ground. Not by choice.

This year the country roads and woods are full of out of state hunters in their $40,000 4x4's. Farmers get permits to kill multiple deer. One guy can buy, I think up to 6 doe tags. The State of Kansas is trying to do what they think the public wants, and that is lower the deer population.

Last year, was the first year since I started hunting that I didn't harvest a deer. This year I shot the first one I seen in 44mag. range. It was a Bambi. I'm no trophy hunter, so no regrets. LESS DEER, but I think that is what is wanted.
I may spend my future deer seasons hunting squirrels, they taste better anyway.

[351 WINCHESTER]

Less deer this year. Last year saw more bucks and a lot of hog. I've hunted this public property since 1973. I've been talking to other hunters and they told me poachers enter the management area on atv's and kill as many trophy bucks as they can. Game wardens can't catch them. They are stealing from me and my family.

[ds/ks]

I agree, 351. Poaching is a problem. Not enough law enforcment. The game wardens i've seen this year look and act like rent a cops. Young kids.

[Thin Black Line]

I've heard of some poaching before season from one of my friends in KY.
I actually have less of it around my property now --a combination of actually
reporting it, knowing who the likely poachers were, and having a new neighbor
move in who's a cop.

[farscott]

Seen a lot more deer this year. The last few years were dry, but this year it has been much better.