European members, help!


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Prince Yamato
November 17, 2008, 12:40 AM
At this juncture in my career (classical musician), I realize that it would behoove me to have some extensive European performance experience on my resume. To do so would basically mean that I would have to move to Europe for a period of time. Obviously I see this as a possible conflict with my other love in life, firearms. I understand that a temporary move to a foreign country would mean giving up the freedoms I enjoy in the US, my question is this:

Which major European countries offer the best of both worlds (classical music and guns)? Classical music is easy, but guns is a little harder. I'm not necessarily looking for MG ownership, though that would be a plus, but what countries can I own a Glock 17 with a regular 17 round mag and use it for defense?

I am fairly fluent in French and have a working knowledge of German and Italian (thanks to my years of study, I now speak like a bad 18-19th century poet).

From what I gather, Austria and the Czech Republic are the closest to the US and both have CCW. I know about Switzerland, but they are a small country and employment there would be rather difficult. France also seemed nice as well. I hear that Germany isn't so grand, which would be rather disappointing for me, as I have family there.

What is the situation with transporting guns country to country within the EU?

I believe much good could come from me moving to Europe, but I also cringe at the thought of losing many of my liberties. Since however, many of our liberties came from ideas from the old world, I believe that some of these ideas must still be in place. I have no definite plans, so all this worrying could be for naught. On the other hand, I'd still like to keep my options open.

NOTE: I posted this under legal because it concerns laws in the EU, if it is more general discussion, mods, feel free to move. I also just realized that the title makes it look like I'm in some sort of legal trouble, apologies... no legal troubles, just moral dilemmas :)

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woodybrighton
November 18, 2008, 05:20 AM
most European countries don't allow ccw and definitely not for non citizens so your out of luck there.
Avoid the UK no pistols at all :fire:

Mp7
November 18, 2008, 05:57 AM
Put your hobby aside for a year.

Get a can of OC Spray.

Come to germany.

Not wanting to insult you, but if the purpose
is for pimping your job-profile, than the choice
of place should not be determined by your hobby/love.

Come here. Its safe. OC is just fine.

Mike OTDP
November 18, 2008, 06:32 AM
Cheat.

CCW and self-defense are frowned upon in Europe. On the other hand, shooting is a very respectable sport (the UK excepted). My advice would be to look at IPSC and IDPA...and also make a point of joining USA Shooting. Compete. This should be enough to get your foot in the door.

Make contact with the European shooting federations...they can give you pointers.

IIRC, transporting firearms is feasible...there is an EU firearms pass that will let you transport firearms to competitions.

You'll find that Europe is not that bad a place to be a competitive shooter. Germany is the great home of sport shooting...with Switzerland and Austria not far behind. And the rest of Europe is not that bad, with the exception of the UK. Enjoy!

Shung
November 18, 2008, 06:59 AM
I have no idea about classical music, but if you want firearms, come to SWITZERLAND !!!

btw, Switzerland is ahead of Germany and Austria for sport shooting, not behind-.

and Switzerland is small enough for you to live, even if you have to work in germany or france sometimes.

for example, living in Geneva (international town) would allow you to speak french, and work wether in Switzerland or France.

as for defense, you can use whatever you want in your house, but unfortunately, carrying is banned for 10 years now-

gvass
November 18, 2008, 11:00 AM
For a foreign and non-EU citizen the chance to get a firearm _ownership_ licence (Handgun) is _practically_ non-existent. Carry licence? Muhahahahaha

In some EU-countries you can have some kind of long guns free of licence (or with registration), but thats all.

Airguns, muzzleloaders are free to own in a lot of EU-states (in France for example).

Selfedefence: gas-alarm guns (tear gas pistols), CS or pepperspray is legal most places, but not all.

---

For getting a handgun for target shooting purpose in most countries you have to live there for years, permanently. Some month of working there is not enough.
EWP (European Weapon pass(port)) is only for those already
have licence in their own EU-member country.

Prince Yamato
November 18, 2008, 01:07 PM
Ok, so IOW, I would still have better firearm access than if I lived in NYC? I could own semi-auto AKs, etc. in these countries. CCW would be next to impossible, but I could still carry pepper spray? That doesn't sound that bad. It's worse than Texas, but better than NYC :). Guns can be used for home defense as well... again, not bad.

So, which countries allow guns for home-defense and allow a foreigner to own a gun?

gvass
November 20, 2008, 04:51 AM
"I could own semi-auto AKs, etc"

No.

Semiauto, military-origin rifles are highly regulated in EU. In the same B category as handguns.

Easier to acces long guns are practically single or double barrel shotguns and single-shot or repeater rifles. In Austria for example these are free of licence, just subject to registration. The pump-action shotguns are BANNED there.

Pepperpsray is legal to own and carry in France, Germany, Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia etc, but not in the Netherlands for example.

EU gun laws/selfdefence issues are very particular and difficult to summarize shortly.

And because there are no borders within the Schengen-zone, it is easy to get into trouble. Between Austria and Germany, you can't even find differences in the language of road signs/advertisements to find out where you are:-)

Mp7
November 20, 2008, 05:58 AM
If you fake to be a sportshooter..... they might let you have it as a foreigner......

So in case of a HD Situation - u would have a firearm to respond.

But to avoid the hassle - id go with alternative weaponry instead.

In Germany for example - Single-shot Muzzleloaders
are legal for anyone above 18. So are Crossbows.

If you want to be prepared at home - get a halberd, a spear, or a mace.
Combined with OC-spray... youll be fine.

gvass
November 20, 2008, 06:15 AM
"If you fake to be a sportshooter..... they might let you have it as a foreigner......"

As far as I know you need 5 years of living in Germany for any kind of "Waffenrechtliche Erlaubnis" (gun licence).

Single shot muzzleloaders (with originals made before 1871) are frei ab 18 in Germany, but the black powder is NOT.

...

The best bet in .de is the Piexon JPX (Kimber Life-Act in the USA), which is legal to own and carry without any licence, as Tierabwehrgerat. Two-shot only, but extremely effective, think it as no-lethal derringer with close to 100% stopping power.

www.piexon.com

English Bob
November 20, 2008, 06:57 AM
Here's the FFT's site

http://www.fftir.asso.fr/

They may help if you decide France is where you wish to be.

Prince Yamato
November 20, 2008, 01:25 PM
Pepperpsray is legal to own and carry in France, Germany, Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia etc

That's good to know. I was under the impression that anything defensive was totally illegal in Europe.

The crossbow thing may be interesting... :)

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