AZ open carry - under 18?


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andyffer
November 17, 2008, 01:43 AM
This is for people who are familiar with the Arizona laws. Please dont post your opinions whether or not it is a good idea or bad.

I am under 18 and would like to openly carry my 1911.
Can I if I am with a parent or even with a signed note from my parents saying I can?

Also, the law says that in order for it to be considered open carry "most" of the gun has to be shown? How much of the gun?
Im taking it that sticking it in my beltline does not count?

Thanks

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indoorsoccerfrea
November 17, 2008, 01:47 AM
if the law states that you must be age 18 to carry, which it does from what I can find on google, then a note from your parents will not change anything. sorry andyffer

Prepster
November 17, 2008, 01:52 AM
Check out opencarry.org. If there's a way, or any other questions you have about open carry laws, the folks there will know. Even if you can't, be happy that you've got a handgun anyway. You'll be 18 before you know it.

7.62Reaper
November 17, 2008, 02:00 AM
You cannot buy a handgun if you are under 21. You cannot buy handgun ammo if you are under 21.

Obviously you cannot openly carry. Give dad his gun back.

andyffer
November 17, 2008, 02:03 AM
I have bought many guns through my parents.
Thats right I BOUGHT them. Not my parents.

A springfield 1911, a S&W 637, a Mossberg 500, and another S&W revolver.

Dont be jealous...

M203Sniper
November 17, 2008, 02:05 AM
Not very high road; though we now have little doubt as to your true age

:)

7.62Reaper
November 17, 2008, 02:09 AM
My favorite part of his question- "If i get a signed note" hahaha

Samgotit
November 17, 2008, 02:11 AM
You, Andy, have just demonstrated why there is a minimum age law in effect. Should you be carrying a gun with that attitude?

A law cannot be circumvented by a note from your parents. It a great idea, thought. I'd get a note from my Mom to speed.

andyffer
November 17, 2008, 02:11 AM
I will scan these pages in the Arizona's Gun Owners book.

mnrivrat
November 17, 2008, 02:16 AM
You cannot buy a handgun if you are under 21.

You have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a FFL dealer. At 18 you can purchase privately.

It is unlikely that you will be allowed to carry if under 18 , but check with the state laws regarding that issue. ( you may have to be 21 ?)

HEY ! ANDYFFER ! NOT on this board you don't ! Check your attitude & language or you won't be here long ,if it's not already to late .

EDIT : OK - That's better - I'm pleased you did the edit on your post, but for future reference be advised that the type language and path you started down is not acceptable.

andyffer
November 17, 2008, 02:31 AM
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/andyffer/sc01709d22.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/andyffer/sc0170b004.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/andyffer/sc0170c443.jpg

Thermactor
November 17, 2008, 03:03 AM
Exactly the kind of kid that would give the antis a cause celebre to go after RKBA. What negligent parents.

NavyLCDR
November 17, 2008, 04:23 AM
I am under 18 and would like to openly carry my 1911.
I have bought many guns through my parents.
Thats right I BOUGHT them. Not my parents.
A springfield 1911, a S&W 637, a Mossberg 500, and another S&W revolver.
Dont be jealous...

You do understand that these acts that you speak of are felonies, don't you? The permanent transfer of the handgun to you for ownership is illegal. The only thing that is legal is to have a handgun transferred to you temporarily for specific purposes.

You don't have to worry about me being jealous, I am not jealous of alleged felons. And in answer to your question about AZ - no you can't carry it for self defense, it's against federal law and both you and your parents would end up in front of a judge and the handgun may be PERMANENTLY confiscated by the government.

18 USC 922:

(x)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or
otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has
reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile--
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to
knowingly possess--
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(3) This subsection does not apply to--
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a
juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a
juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the
juvenile--
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching
or farming related to activities at the residence of the
juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which
the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or
lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the
farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of
instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent
or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local
law from possessing a firearm, except--
(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded
handgun in a locked container directly from the place of
transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause
(i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of
that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly
from the place at which such an activity took place to the
transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as
described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a
handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the
juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of
an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local
law from possessing a firearm;

(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the
juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the
possession of the juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United
States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a
handgun in the line of duty;
(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a
handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or
(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile
taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an
intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which
the juvenile is an invited guest.

(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred
to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in
violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent
confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile
subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile,
but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or
ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of
investigation or prosecution.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term ``juvenile'' means a
person who is less than 18 years of age.
(6)(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court
shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant's parent or legal
guardian at all proceedings.
(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph
(A).
(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of
a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of
this subsection for good cause shown.

MachIVshooter
November 17, 2008, 05:01 AM
You do understand that these acts that you speak of are felonies, don't you? The permanent transfer of the handgun to you for ownership is illegal. The only thing that is legal is to have a handgun transferred to you temporarily for specific purposes.

So long as the handgun does not leave the residence, he is fine. In the same respects that a 12 year old can operate a motor vehicle on private property, a minor can possess a handgun in the residence of his legal guardians (unless we're talking about a state with handgun lock provisions and the like)

It'd be pretty hard to argue that the minor is the owner of the handgun if he is not allowed to leave the residence with it on his own and/or without written permission/accompaniment from the gaurdian who purchased it; If you truly own something, you can do as you wish with it.

Lots of parents buy guns for their kids, and in many cases the child has to earn it or pay for it with hard currency. There is no problem with this. The problem comes if the parent willfully allows the child to violate the law by possessing the firearm in a public venue without proper authorization/accompaniment as required by all applicable laws.

NavyLCDR
November 17, 2008, 05:10 AM
MachIVShooter,

You might want to read that Federal Law again.

(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile
taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an
intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which
the juvenile is an invited guest.

He can only legally possess the handgun in his own residence if taken up in an act of self defense.

Unless the residence is also a place of farming, ranching, employment, target practice, hunting or instruction. He can't just walk around with the gun, even in his own residence. I am not saying what happens behind closed doors doesn't stay behind closed doors, but it is technically against the law.

Exception:
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching
or farming related to activities at the residence of the
juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which
the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or
lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the
farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of
instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

C-grunt
November 17, 2008, 05:32 AM
Alright dude listen to me here. As a Phx LEO, what you are talking about here is a VERY bad idea. at 18 you can open carry, as I have read the law. Until then you would be inviting lots of trouble into your life. While many in AZ have come accustomed to seeing people carry guns around openly, you have a lot of new residents who will confront you about it. I open carry quite often off duty and get nasty looks and what not from some people all the time.

As far as what has to be showing to be considered open carry.....

If its concealed totally its concealed. Just showing a little is technically legal, will the officer see it that way and can you convince the judge that in court if arrested for it. Your defense of " your honor, the last quarter inch of the barrel was outside of my shirt." might not work so well if the arresting officer says he couldnt see it. What Im saying is if you are going to open carry, not talking to the OP here leave yours at home, make it plainly open. If it gets accidentally concealed because you were leaning the wrong way, its a crime. Or you could just go get the permit.

In all truthfulness a good body hugging belt holster will not be noticed by well over 90 percent of the people you come in contact with. A lot of the people that do notice it dont really care.

NavyLCDR
November 17, 2008, 06:00 AM
Alright dude listen to me here. As a Phx LEO, what you are talking about here is a VERY bad idea. at 18 you can open carry, as I have read the law.

What he is talking about, OC while under the age of 18, is not just a bad idea, it is a felony, regardless of whether he has a note from mommy and daddy or not, and mommy and daddy are going to go see the judge as well if he is arrested --

Unless he is specifically engaging in employment, farming, ranching, hunting, target practice or instruction on private land with parent's written permission and the permission of the landowner - or in the act of actual self defense against an intruder in a residence. State law can be more restrictive than this, but it cannot be less restrictive.

The mere fact that he "purchased" these firearms "through his parents" is a felony in and of itself.

armoredman
November 17, 2008, 07:12 AM
I carried open in this state years ago at 18, and had to wait until '94 for our CCW law. Wait until you are 18. Do things the right and legal way, that way we never meet professionally.

Johnny Guest
November 17, 2008, 01:27 PM
Thread reopened after considerable editing. Y'all keep it on the high road.

Johnny Guest
THR Staff

Prince Yamato
November 17, 2008, 01:53 PM
Everyone relax and let the kid alone. He just wanted to know if he could open carry.

Here's my take:

Even if you can, what do you think people's reaction will be to a young kid with a gun on his hip? My guess is that they will call the cops on you and you'll be spending the better part of your day/night, explaining to the police what loophole you exploited and why you are not guilty for exploiting it. I know that it's not what you want to hear, but you really need to wait until you're 18. In the meantime, practice shooting, so that when people give you guff at 18 for open-carrying, you can show them your targets and get them to shut up. :D

Majic
November 17, 2008, 02:53 PM
I have bought many guns through my parents.
Thats right I BOUGHT them. Not my parents.
You do know that constitutes a straw purchase and your parents have committed a felony?

Win52D
November 17, 2008, 03:40 PM
Not sure why he was asking. The laws clearly state that he can only carry if a parent, guardian or instructor is present. As far as how much needs to be shown. I don't have a CCW yet so that when I carry in the field here in Tucson the entire pistol and holster are shown...I have no intentions of running afoul of the law for a matter of inches of coverage

andyffer
November 17, 2008, 08:48 PM
The reason I said strap to the side of my hip is I was thinking about getting this...

www.clipdraw.com

Dougelas
November 18, 2008, 12:52 AM
"The road to hell is paved with gun-grabbing liberals"

I'd like to think they're all already down there.

IncredibleGord
November 18, 2008, 12:57 AM
http://opencarry.org/maps.html
Why does every state that touches Minnesota have better oc laws? :banghead:In Alaska the age is 14. :cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

NavyLCDR
November 18, 2008, 07:15 AM
You do know that constitutes a straw purchase and your parents have committed a felony?

Actually, two felonies for each weapon purchased. One for the straw purchase and the second for furnishing a firearm to a minor not under the exceptions of the federal law. But they don't seem to care about that.

Why does every state that touches Minnesota have better oc laws? In Alaska the age is 14.

However, even in Alaska, it would still be against Federal law for a minor <18 years of age to carry a firearm merely for self-defense. It must be carried under the exemptions to minor's possession of firearms quoted in the Federal law earlier.

adam_oz
November 18, 2008, 03:33 PM
I have bought many guns through my parents.
Thats right I BOUGHT them. Not my parents.

A springfield 1911, a S&W 637, a Mossberg 500, and another S&W revolver.

Dont be jealous...



As a 19 year old gun lover, I am taken back by this lack of maturity showed. Owning a gun is a big deal, itís a right that I donít want to lose. Acts like this just feeds the fire for anti-gun arguments. If you want to find a way to carry at 17 or how ever old you are, I canít stop you. But do understand what could happen. People are not always as understanding about the laws as people on THR. They will not be very receptive of a younger looking guy walking around with a gun on his hip. Open carry is great! But make sure its legal, and please make sure you are ready for the responsibility of it. There are age limits on it for a reason. What if you have to use that gun? A lot of the time being responsible is knowing your age and when you just are not ready. The laws are not just put there to be mean or to hurt us, they are there for the betterment of the people. I can accept that I have to wait the 2 years till I am 21. Please do the same. Keep the wonderful tradition alive, while still keeping on THR

HK G3
November 18, 2008, 03:46 PM
I have bought many guns through my parents.
Thats right I BOUGHT them. Not my parents.

A springfield 1911, a S&W 637, a Mossberg 500, and another S&W revolver.

Dont be jealous...

Don't you love it when people are so unabashedly proud of having broken the law that they proceed to brag about it on internet forums, all while implicating a 3rd party in their crimes?

Also, age limits exist for a reason.

You, as someone under 18-25, have an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex, nucleus accumbens, and amygdala. What does this all mean? Underdeveloped attention and decision-making capacity, ability to control temper, and patience, diminished ability to perceive facial expressions and interpret non-threatening behavior as threatening, an increase in impulsive behavior to stimulate the rewards center of the brain while placing much less emphasis on the negative impacts of impulsiveness, and decreased control over emotional responses.

Yeah, this is exactly the kind of person I want walking around with a gun.

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