Legal to carry/conceal Kel-Tec SUB-2000 in FL?


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Hoplophile
November 17, 2008, 05:18 AM
For an under-21 who can't buy or conceal a pistol, I'd been thinking about a Kel-Tec SUB-2000. They can't be fired when folded, and they fold to about 16 inches. I know, it's not as quick as a pistol, but it's better than nothing.

Is this legal to carry in FL? On my person? How about concealed? And yes, I can shove something like that down my pants. It would also go very nicely in a man-purse. If it's legal, I can damn well conceal it. I may be a bit stiff, though :-)

Any thoughts on this option?

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dontshakepandas
November 17, 2008, 01:00 PM
Thoughts?

Yup, here is one. Suck it up and wait until you are 21.

Hoplophile
November 17, 2008, 01:09 PM
dontshakepandas, I didn't ask if I should suck it up and wait until I'm 21. I asked if it was legal to carry/conceal a certain firearm.

If you don't have anything constructive to post, try to keep it to yourself.

Thanks.

Kleanbore
November 17, 2008, 01:36 PM
Legal advice from the web is worth what you pay for it.

However, the fact that the FL laws refer to permits for carrying concealed weapons should indicate something.

boomana
November 17, 2008, 01:39 PM
It wouldn't be illegal for you to carry it concealed in Florida unless you have a CWL, and you must be 21 to apply for one. Sorry you didn't like the tone of the previous poster, but he's right.

NeoSpud
November 17, 2008, 02:09 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm definitely not a lawyer, but from reading the Florida concealed carry statues I'm having a hard time finding where what the OP wants to do would be necessarily illegal. I really don't think it's a good idea, but it appears that there is some ambiguity as to what falls under the carry license. Taken from the state's website for concealed carry information, "concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun" (http://flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC06.HTM&Title=-%3E2004-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%2006#0790.06). So where do rifles and shotguns fall? According to an About.com page, you don't need a permit to carry rifles and shotguns (ref: http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm ). I'll bet that there are locale/city-specific laws against carrying rifles openly or concealed, not to mention the hostility one would likely face from cops if carrying a rifle in public would be in itself a reason to not carry even if it was legal... "disturbing the public" and all that...

While I do think that what the OP is trying to do is likely illegal, I'm having a hard time finding absolute proof to support that assertion. Any legal eagles out there know of any applicable Florida laws specific to the carry of rifles in public, concealed or not?

Samgotit
November 17, 2008, 02:10 PM
Thankfully, No, it's not legal.



CONCEALED WEAPON OR FIREARM LICENSE
APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS

FIREARMS LAW – CHAPTER 790, FLORIDA STATUTES
You are required by law to read and become knowledgeable of Chapter 790, Florida Statutes, relating to weapons and
firearms, prior to submitting your application for a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License. A copy of Chapter 790, Florida
Statutes, is included with the application material for you to retain.
ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
• You must be 21 years of age or older.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/application_instructions/Concealed%20Weapon_ApplicationInstructions.pdf


And yes, I can shove something like that down my pants.

And if you found yourself in a situation were you had to wrestled that thing out of your pants, what do you think would happen to you first? Ever seen a clown pulling a 12ft, tie-died, handkerchief out of his pocket?

Arguably, it isn't better than nothing. It's an awful idea and illegal.

Since your are a hoplophile, may I respectably suggest doing exactly what you're doing now. That is, keep reading, keep learning and try to think more reasonably.

NeoSpud
November 17, 2008, 02:22 PM
Samgotit- let me rephrase:
1. Hoplo wants to concealed carry a rifle
2. Rifles aren't defined as concealed weapons / firearms
3. Permits are only needed for those weapons defined as concealed weapons / firearms
tf- Hoplo doesn't need a permit to concealed carry a rifle. The 21+ requirement, accordingly, does not apply.

I'm looking for laws that invalidate #3.

Kleanbore
November 17, 2008, 02:24 PM
Believe it's right here:

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm

Carrying

Unless covered under the exceptions, it is unlawful to openly carry on or about the person any firearm, or to carry a concealed firearm on or about the person without a license.

Exceptions:

Persons having firearms at their home or place of business.
Enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trapshooting, while at, or going to or from shooting practice.
Members of clubs organized for collecting antique or modern firearms while at or going to or from exhibitions.
Persons engaged in fishing, camping or hunting and while going to or from such activity.
Persons engaged in target shooting under safe conditions and in a safe place or while going to or from such place.
Persons who are firing weapons for target practice in a safe and secure indoor range.
Persons traveling by private conveyance if the weapon is securely encased, or in a public conveyance if the weapon is securely encased and not in the personís manual possession.
Persons carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper from place of purchase to their home or to a place of repair and back.
Persons engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing or dealing in firearms.
Military, law enforcement personnel and private guards while so employed.
It is lawful to possess a concealed firearm for self-defense or other lawful purposes within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

A firearm other than a handgun may be carried anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.

This exemption does not authorize the carrying of a firearm concealed on the person.

Samgotit
November 17, 2008, 02:26 PM
Here it is:

2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.

(6) "Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term "firearm" does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=-%3E2008-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%20001#0790.001

Beatnik
November 17, 2008, 02:32 PM
So, there you go, Hoplo... find out what an "antique firearm" is and go with that.

NeoSpud
November 17, 2008, 02:33 PM
A ha! So it's not that easy to get around after all. Thanks, Sam.

From subsection 6:
The term "firearm" does not include an antique firearm"
I guess he could always try carrying a flintlock, though... :p

kurtmax
November 17, 2008, 02:36 PM
Yep, in Florida you can carry antique firearms without a permit. iirc it mirrors the federal law so it's something like any firearm made before 1898 or any replica of a black powder firearm designed after a weapon before 1898.

You can find cartridge revolvers made before that date which are considered antique, otherwise it's black powder time.

You might be able to find some cap revolvers, which aren't as annoying as black powder.

Samgotit
November 17, 2008, 02:37 PM
Looks like he needs a musket.

Otherwise, here's the problem:

1) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Looks like we better get our lawyer suits out for that last bit. Being from Louisiana, my lawyer suit is, of course, seersucker.

Ed N.
November 17, 2008, 03:31 PM
Other than an antique firearm, the only other loophole available to the OP would seem to be:

"Persons engaged in fishing, camping or hunting and while going to or from such activity."

He could obtain a fishing license and carry a pocket fishing kit with him. In Florida, you're almost never more than a mile or two away from a body of water with a fish in it.

Ed

KBintheSLC
November 17, 2008, 04:08 PM
I don't know about FL, but in UT it is illegal to conceal a rifle or shotgun... regardless of age, or CCW status. If I were you, I would look it up on the FL State code books. Taking legal advise from us is most likely a bad idea.

I have a hard time imagining that carrying a concealed SMG would be legal. A word of advice from one guy to the next. Wait a while to start packing a gun. I waited till I was 29 years old to get my CCW. I wasn't nearly "evolved" enough before then to pack one responsibly. Actually, there are several incidents in which I might have landed myself in prison had I employed a firearm to get myself out of. So, for the love of god, get some mace, a taser, or even an edged weapon. But wait till you are truly ready before you start packing a gun.

Gun owners don't need any more bad publicity, and from reading your posts, I feel as though you are not quite there yet. I know its none of my business, but I thought I would share my impressions anyway. Best of luck.

Dr. Fresh
November 17, 2008, 05:45 PM
Too bad you don't live in Texas. It would be legal there.

1911Today
November 17, 2008, 07:51 PM
Cannot conceal carry rifles in Florida. Cannot conceal carry handguns until you are 21. I wouldn't want to be caught with it, especially loaded, because unless if you have a REALLY good argument that you were hunting or fishing, you're looking at serious jail time.

For the time being, invest in a good knife or pepper spray. Those are legal to carry at 18 and won't get you locked up if you get caught.

hexidismal
November 17, 2008, 08:42 PM
I dont know about the florida laws Hoplohile, but I have a different question. Have you ever actually held/used a Sub-2000 ? It might be bigger and clunkier than you think. Think thick laptop computer and you'd be just about there. Fits nicely in backpacks.

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