The .223 is a nasty caliber...


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IdahoLT1
November 17, 2008, 05:33 AM
with the right bullet. Granted they can only use FMJ in the military so theres alot of nay sayers but this is 3 shots using HSM's 55gr Vmax into a pumpkin.

http://i36.tinypic.com/28vq7mg.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/161ca6v.jpg

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bkb0000
November 17, 2008, 05:36 AM
am i having wicked deja vu? i swear i saw this post like two weeks ago, but it says it's two minutes old

C-grunt
November 17, 2008, 05:40 AM
Being a vet I can assure you that even FMJ .223s are nasty.

IdahoLT1
November 17, 2008, 05:47 AM
Haha, maybe people like to shoot pumpkins? This was from Saturday morning.

biggiesmalls
November 17, 2008, 06:30 AM
i was sure that the military could only use fmjs (all the economy of war stuff that gets passed around) until i read this:

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/legal_milhollow.html

Freelance Tax Collector
November 17, 2008, 10:34 AM
If that's what a .223 does, imagine what a .308 does :cool:

Boxing Buffalo
November 17, 2008, 10:56 AM
A couple weeks ago by shooting buddies and myself all went to the woods with some pumpkins.

The first one had a five seven, 00 buck, and some .223 put in it before the R700 in .308 got to it.

The second pumpkin had the .308 for it's first shot and it split the pumpkin right in two and made a ridiculous exit wound.

Matrix187
November 17, 2008, 10:59 AM
The Wolf Military Classic 7.62x39 HP cartridge has the 8m3 bullet which is even "better" at doing damage than the 5.56 m193 round.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=158778

I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end (although this term can apply to any bullet, LOL).

Coltdriver
November 17, 2008, 07:36 PM
On impact the military FMJ's turn and explode. They are spinning well over 150000 rpms and they just come apart. If you have ever seen an xray of a regular fmj .223 victim it looks like a small grenade went off and its usually a few inches in.

The VMAX's are just more violently explosive and they explode more reliably because the polymer tip pretty much guarantees it.

The military FMJ's don't reliably fragment under a fps number that someone will have to follow up with here because I can't remember it.

Yes you are definitely right the .223 is one nasty round!

Frog48
November 17, 2008, 08:16 PM
Granted they can only use FMJ in the military so theres alot of nay sayers

And there are alot of dead North Vietnamese, Viet Cong, Iraqis, Taliban, and Al Qaeda that would disagree with the naysayers.

Loanshark
November 17, 2008, 08:39 PM
.223 is even more impressive when you shoot a watermelon. After the first shot, there's nothing left but tiny pieces. I used British radway green fmj... I never tried .308, maybe next summer...

FYI tomatoes get vaporized by the .223.

wyocarp
November 17, 2008, 09:26 PM
I hope that those pumpkins and watermelons don't come to my house.

Rifleman 173
November 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
Try that shot with either a 12 gauge shotgun slug or a .50 caliber Beowulf boomstick. Heck, try it with a 7.62 X 39 AK launcher and you'll see how anemic that .223/5.56 really is by comparison.

longdayjake
November 17, 2008, 10:11 PM
i shot one with a soft point 87 grainer from my .25-06 at 3400 feet per second. There was nothing left to shoot at after that.

HorseSoldier
November 17, 2008, 10:11 PM
i was sure that the military could only use fmjs (all the economy of war stuff that gets passed around) until i read this:

The link is correct as far as it goes -- 99% of the US military uses FMJ exclusively. JAG has ruled that OTM ammunition is allowed under the laws of land warfare (it's a full metal jacketed round with a pin hole in the nose due to difference in construction compared to standard FMJ ammo, so this is much less of a loophole than some people seem to think), and certain specific SOF units are allowed to use JHP ammo for certain specific mission sets, but that definitely doesn't mean that everyone in SOCOM is running around with JHP loaded in their sidearms.

Also, military police are allowed to use JHP ammunition when conducting law enforcment missions in a garrison environment -- but they're not allowed to use JHP on the battlefield.

alsaqr
November 17, 2008, 10:22 PM
I use the 5.56mm M193 round in my guns to kill hogs, dozens of hogs; sometimes very big hogs. Very few of the hogs that I have shot with the M193 round require a second shot. The bullet will pass through a rib, or not pass through a rib; penetrate about 6", yaw and come totally apart. Shards from that little 55 grain bullet shreds the hogs lungs and heart, sometimes the diaphram and liver as well.

After about 150-175 yards when fired from a 20" barrel, the bullet loses velocity and much of its magic swine killing ability.

jpwilly
November 17, 2008, 11:39 PM
Yip them sure are nasty and I would not want to be shot with a 223. Try shooting that pumpkin with a cinder block in front of it though and you'll be very disappointed.

biggiesmalls
November 18, 2008, 04:33 AM
thanks for the further clarification, horsesoldier!

SSN Vet
November 18, 2008, 12:44 PM
Try that shot with either a 12 gauge shotgun slug or a .50 caliber Beowulf boomstick. Heck, try it with a 7.62 X 39 AK

at 600 yds???

RockyMtnTactical
November 18, 2008, 01:41 PM
I've seen XM193 leave the same looking wound on coyotes as that pumpkin... it is nasty.

Just One Shot
November 18, 2008, 02:16 PM
(Yip them sure are nasty and I would not want to be shot with a 223. Try shooting that pumpkin with a cinder block in front of it though and you'll be very disappointed.)


Yep, them darn pumpkins they like to find cover at the first sign of trouble!
:D

natecade1
November 18, 2008, 02:28 PM
We did that the other day too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyOe7kHhoQk
from about 40 yards, first with r710 in .300 win mag. the exit hole was about 5", then the 00 buck shot from my 870 just split the thing in half.

shooting the apple at 40 yards with the the .300 mag was pretty fun too. There is a video of that on my youtube also.

Rifleman 173
November 18, 2008, 02:58 PM
At 600 yards he wants an M-1a or an AR-10(t) with a good scope. The 12 gauge is for close in shooting fun. Watch that pumpkin soar into the sky when it gets hit with a slug...

CZguy
November 18, 2008, 05:28 PM
Try shooting that pumpkin with a cinder block in front of it though and you'll be very disappointed.)

Flank that pumpkin, and shoot it in the back.

That's why I never go pumpkin hunting in fewer that squad strength. :D

Reneage Riot
November 18, 2008, 05:46 PM
Heres my brothers .223 bolt action's damage to an old watermelon.

twofourthree73
November 18, 2008, 07:51 PM
Heres my brothers .223 bolt action's damage to an old watermelon.

Great pic of it exploding!

MTMilitiaman
November 18, 2008, 07:53 PM
The ability of some less knowledgeable politicians and military brass to be taken in by the 5.56 shooting fruit is one of things that got us into this mess to begin with.

Next time I am attacked by angry watermelons or pumpkins, I'll consider the poodle shooter. Until then, I am perfectly content to stick with my M1A.

RockyMtnTactical
November 18, 2008, 09:38 PM
Yep, similar to the argument that a rifle round that destroys cinder blocks means it is effective.

I guess when our enemies start armoring themselves with cinder blocks, that might start to be relevant.

longdayjake
November 18, 2008, 10:03 PM
I guess when our enemies start armoring themselves with cinder blocks, that might start to be relevant.

Hey, that sounds like a good idea. I was sitting here trying to think of a way to add armor to my tactical assault 1983 buick riviera. It has rust holes in the side of the doors that just don't cut it for street fights. I bet if I took the door panels off I could fit some of those 1" paving stones in there and put the panels back on. It may take some cutting but I could have a mostly .223 proof door. Then if I fill the trunk with cinder blocks no one could get me with anything less than a .50 bmg from behind. The big v8 engine is enough for the front. Hey, do you guys know where you can get bullet proof glass for a buick?

moojpg2
November 18, 2008, 10:27 PM
yep, just strip one out of a brinks truck

CZguy
November 18, 2008, 11:34 PM
yep, just strip one out of a brinks truck

Five gallons or so of Bondo ought to blend it in to the sheet metal nicely. :D

FlyinBryan
November 18, 2008, 11:42 PM
Heck, try it with a 7.62 X 39 AK launcher and you'll see how anemic that .223/5.56 really is by comparison.

the problem with that is you actually have to hit it.

MTMilitiaman
November 19, 2008, 01:27 AM
I guess when our enemies start armoring themselves with cinder blocks, that might start to be relevant.

More enemies can probably be found hiding behind cinder blocks than pumpkins. So for the record, no, but nice try.

HorseSoldier
November 19, 2008, 01:55 AM
7.62x51 -- First choice of those who emphasize expending their small basic load of ammunition firing blindly into structures since 1954 :rolleyes:

RockyMtnTactical
November 19, 2008, 03:10 AM
More enemies can probably be found hiding behind cinder blocks than pumpkins. So for the record, no, but nice try.

Oh, so we are gonna start picking cartridges based on one certain requirement, can it penetrate cinder blocks and then damage the target?

Silly.

If all we cared about was penetration the military would be using heavier bullets and all AP ammo.

I wonder if the military has a statistic on how many firefights take place with cinder blocks in the equation... :rolleyes:

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