How to manufacture fully auto firearms legally?


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CSestp
November 17, 2008, 09:14 PM
Sorry for being the poster everyone hates on these boards by asking the same questions asked a million times over, but your help is needed.

I know there is some 07/02 manufactures license that I need to get. I searched the forum, google, and atf site. I couldn't find anything on the forum (maybe I just suck at using search function). Google was a little help, but don't really trust it. The ATF site I can never make heads or tails of.

Does anyone have a site where I can print an app. and also get some tax info on? I am trying to prevent from calling my local DA as that is always a long wait on hold.

What I want to do is legally convert a AK to full auto I have everything sitting at my house staring at me, but I'm afraid the moment I start milling the ATF is going kick down my door in ninja outfits and shoot me:what:. So to prevent being taken by ninjas I want to get this stupid license for a gun I'm never going to sell. More than likely never make another and never renew my license.

Now let me have it in how dumb this idea is.

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CSestp
November 17, 2008, 09:18 PM
On this same note, is there any AK stocks that have a compartment were I could keep the papers?

General Geoff
November 17, 2008, 09:21 PM
No way, no how. You can't get a manufacturer's license unless you plan on actually making a profit on selling your weapons. Not to mention I'd imagine it costs lots of money.


You cannot legally manufacture and possess a new machine gun. The only exception to this is if you're a law enforcement agency, representative for the military or a class III weapons dealer (who sells to military or police).

It'll be far cheaper and much more effective to just find a pre-86 ban AK-47. It'll still cost you probably $20,000, but it's worth it to not have the feds busting down your door and stomping your pets to death.


What I want to do is legally convert a AK to full auto I have everything sitting at my house staring at me

What you have there is a Constructive Possession charge waiting to happen. I advise you immediately crush/bend/mutilate any "conversion" parts you may have, or the feds already have a reason to bust down your door.

CSestp
November 17, 2008, 09:25 PM
On ATF website:
"An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency."

Has this already sunk my battleship?

Oh thanks Geoff, as of right now its just a piece of metal, no holes are anything drilled or milled.
Thank you for considering my pets as well.

CSestp
November 17, 2008, 09:27 PM
Okay mod can go ahead and lock this, might want to sticky it for morons like myself.

cobra2411
November 17, 2008, 09:45 PM
What I want to do is legally convert a AK to full auto I have everything sitting at my house staring at me
What you have there is a Constructive Possession charge waiting to happen. I advise you immediately crush/bend/mutilate any "conversion" parts you may have, or the feds already have a reason to bust down your door.

I think he was talking about tools like a mill / drill / lathe that could manufacture the parts.

You can't get a manufacturer's license unless you plan on actually making a profit on selling your weapons.

Just because you want to start a business doesn't mean that you have to make money... What happens if you intend to manufacture new types of weapons or convert existing weapons for law enforcement / military and "it just doesn't work out"... You get to make some "prototypes" and they're legal... :)

CSestp
November 17, 2008, 09:51 PM
Thank you for the prototype deal cobra, but it isn't worth the head achs yet:banghead:. So far as the mill/lathe that damn well better not be illegal or they can come in right now, and take me. Thats just my hobby. I'm pretty sure he was talking about the parts to make it full auto. I burnt the diagram, and as I said all I have left is a hunk of metal with no holes or anything done to it.

ants
November 17, 2008, 10:50 PM
Well, I'm glad we settled that little question. Again.

Sorry, CSestp. You're in a long line of curious people who have asked that question since 1986, and the answer remains unchanged.

Audrey
November 18, 2008, 01:40 AM
Too bad each citizen, an ipso facto militia member according to the 2nd Amendment, isn't afforded the same Constitutional privileges as the warned of standing army.

*Now this thread can be locked*

CSestp
November 18, 2008, 02:04 AM
I really can understand having regs on full auto guns I really can, but to just make them down right illegal just doesn't make since. At least in my "gun loving crazy" head. I would have more fear of someone with a bolt action rifle half a mile away then someone laying down lead with a full auto.

Being as the only point in a full auto gun is to keep heads down so others can move to the flank. I guess the thing that bothers me here, is that I could accomplish the same goal with a semi auto AK. While at a some what less rate of fire, what is the point as long as it is regulated?

I guess the point I bring which I am sure has been brought up way too many times. Is that wouldn't it be nice for the gov. to know who and where these full auto firearms are at instead of, in my opinion only, encourage people to illegally have/hide fully auto firearms.

I know I have utterly no reason to own a fully auto firearm other than just to say I own one. Which is reason enough in some peoples opinion (including my "gun crazy opinion"). I would get much personal enjoyment of firing my very own home built full auto rifle, than pay a crazy amount of money to buy one built from someone else on someone else's standards.

While the price of entry would keep common criminals from getting their hands on a fully auto firearm. I come again to the point it just encourages people to make illegal copies, putting (a bit stupid) law abiding citizens in tax a supported prison system.

I am now done with my "gun loving crazy" opinionated rant. Please close this thread so I don't have to waist anymore time into this thread which I should have dropped at: "Has this already sunk my battleship.".

rondog
November 18, 2008, 02:04 AM
I suggest you go rent a machine gun, of any flavor, and run a bunch of ammo through it. Then, decide whether you really want to feed one of those pigs. Sure, they're lots of fun, but my God can they go through cash!

telecaster1981
November 18, 2008, 02:05 AM
Wait a minute here...Cobra, are you saying that a fellow can't have machining tools, pieces of metal, and a semi-automatic firearm??? If so, there are a LOT of folks who could get rear-ended by the ATF!!!

DMF
November 18, 2008, 05:35 AM
What I want to do is legally convert a AK to full auto I have everything sitting at my house staring at me
What you have there is a Constructive Possession charge waiting to happen. I advise you immediately crush/bend/mutilate any "conversion" parts you may have, or the feds already have a reason to bust down your door.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Why does this nonsensical misuse of the term "constructive possession" get repeated here over and over and over again?

The last time we had this, and the correct information was provided, was October 29, 2008.

Here is a link to the post providing the correct information about constructive possession: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5038383&highlight=constructive#post5038383

Please pay particular attention to these previous posts on the matter:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3992720&highlight=Constructive#post3992720

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3824770&highlight=Constructive#post3824770


:banghead::banghead::banghead:

MGshaggy
November 18, 2008, 11:40 AM
First off, if you just want a full auto AK, you'd be far better off just buying a transferable and being done with it. $20k is a bit high on todays market, and (if you're serious) I own a transferable, full-auto AK underfolder I'll sell you for a good bit less than that.

A manufacturing license (07/SOT) is going to run you $2k-3k per year for the FFL, the SOT and the required ITAR fee. Once you have all that, you'd need to actively engage in business, meaning puting your manufactured products in the market, not just transfering weapons (which can be done without the manufacturing license), so plan on getting insurance. BATFE will allow you to go on R&D for a little while, but you will eventually be required to show your business needs the manufacturing license, and not just a dealers license, and not just an 01FFL. When you give up (or BATFE pulls the license) you'll have to either sell of the post-sample machineguns you build to a qualified entity (LE agency, another SOT with demo request letter), turn them over to BATFE, or destroy the weapons.

Additionally, BATFE will look into your zoning (industrial/light industrial preferred) and may raise questions about your compliance with other local laws (business license, waste disposal, etc.) and deny the license if you haven't complied with all local laws and regulations.

jackdanson
November 18, 2008, 12:04 PM
Why all the trouble from the ATF.. Seriously? The two largest mass murders in U.S. history were commited with box cutters and fertilizer. The only time I can think of FA was used by criminals (who acquired the weapons illegally, obviously) was the north hollywood shootout, where they killed uhhhh no one!! If they had been using semi's/bolts and aiming properly they probably could have killed 50+ people.

General Geoff
November 18, 2008, 01:00 PM
Why does this nonsensical misuse of the term "constructive possession" get repeated here over and over and over again?

DMF, will all due respect, I have read your chain of links and I see this as a perfect definition of constructive possession. He has the materials, ability, and intent (or at least did have the intent) to construct a machine gun. Regardless of whether he wanted to be legal or not, the ATF has shot and killed people for less than this.

kurtmax
November 18, 2008, 01:11 PM
What you have there is a Constructive Possession charge waiting to happen. I advise you immediately crush/bend/mutilate any "conversion" parts you may have, or the feds already have a reason to bust down your door.

I hope you don't have any files laying around if you have an AK :rolleyes:.

expvideo
November 18, 2008, 01:19 PM
Stop being an elitest and making people feel bad for asking questions.
Wasn't being elitist and wasn't trying to make you feel bad. The point was that saying "What I want to do is legally convert a AK to full auto I have everything sitting at my house staring at me... " on a public forum is just not smart. You have stated that you have the ability and the intent to create a machinegun and that you want to scam the government into thinking that you are making it for someone else. You admit that you are not making it for someone else. These statements are enough to have the ATF kicking down your door. Do you honestly think that no one in the government ever looks at a gun board to see if people are talking about building machineguns?

I wasn't saying that it was a stupid thing to say because of a lack of gun knowledge, but because of a lack of common sense. You don't post on a forum that you have the ability and intent to bend/break a federal law. That's stupid. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but asking how to scam the government and convert a gun to full auto is just plain retarded on a public forum.

General Geoff
November 18, 2008, 01:27 PM
I hope you don't have any files laying around if you have an AK

They've deemed steel pipe sections and washers as constructive possession of a silencer, and they previously defined a shoe string as a machine gun. So no, it wouldn't be a stretch to think they'd consider a file to be constructive possession either.

CoRoMo
November 18, 2008, 02:00 PM
You don't post on a forum...

What you need to do is... gather up the THR community and bring them into your bathroom.:uhoh: Turn on the faucet and whisper back and forth while the water is running.:scrutiny:
From what I've heard, it seemed to work well for the heavily monitored citizens of the former Soviet Union.:o

Larry Ashcraft
November 18, 2008, 02:09 PM
Enough.

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