Great Brush Gun..... Reminton 600 questions


PDA






RoostRider
November 18, 2008, 02:11 AM
So, I was out deer hunting with my friends, one of which I know to be an avid shooter, accomplished marksman and generally knowledgeable about firearms, Sean.

I brought along my Remington 600 chambered in .308 Win. with a breakaway 2.75 power Bushnell scope, which I have always liked as a gun.... it was my fathers, and he got a lot of deer with it, I have gotten a bear with it.... but I never really got a chance to pattern the gun until this year (sight in, yes, but not really see how close it patterns)....

I am a decent shot (no miracle man, but I can get the job done well enough that several of my friends trust my shots more than their own).... I got the chance to really put some rounds in this gun this year sighting it in (the first year I have owned the gun) but I could not get a nice tight pattern with this gun out at 150 yds +.... I was having problems that day with several guns, the wind was blowing pretty good from across the field, and I thought it was just me.... I was still getting inside the kill zone easily, so I called it good.... just not the nice tight pattern I expected this gun to have...

Anyways, this brings me to the current hunt.... I decide I am going to ho and sit in a stand over a couple of open fields (150-250 yd shots likely... I won't shoot at much beyond that) and my buddy Sean and I are sitting down yammering about guns and whatnot and he tells me that I should shoot his .270 that he has extra lying around instead of my 600 (a really nice gun that I have shot and know to be a great patterning gun)... which I naturally say "nah, I'll stick with my gun".... and then he says "you should really consider replacing that old .308", and I naturally ask "why?", and he says that it's just not that good of a gun, nothing like the guns that are available today... mentioning guns like his composite stock .270 and his .270 short mag. ... both with stainless barrels, no iron sights, straight up nice real life shooters guns with ample knock down for anything but the largest of game around here (Moose, and after seeing what it did to deer I would even consider these guns good for bear)...

At this point, I fiigure he doesn't like my gun because of the short barrel (~18.5") and the inherent inaccuracy of shorter barrels (to a point)... to which I reply "but it's a great brush gun".... to which he says "thats what they say about every crappy gun.... it's a great brush gun... any gun can shoot straight for 50 yards".... which took me by suprise, hearing someone whos opinion I respect dissing what I thought was a pretty nice gun.... sure, it has some cosmetic issues, but it has been a used hunting rifle for 40 years now... and he wasn't commenting on how it looked, just on how he figures it would shoot (he hasn't shot it, but may have shot others and found them to pattern poorly)....

I like this gun because of its history, and my desire to use a .308 because I know it to have plenty of knockdown even when it gets out there a ways, and the good pattern the round is known to do, the scope or open sight option and it's size (it really is a great brush gun because of this, and there is more brush than anything else where I hunt).... the scope might be underpowered for the really long shots, but it is nice when you are in closer, and that is the bulk of shots around here....

So I have a few questions for you rifle aficionados here....

Is this a good gun, or just a good "Brush Gun"... lol...?
Should I expect this gun to pattern tight even out at range?
What can I do to improve it's accuracy and patterning?

I have taken the gun apart now, and it is obvious that the barrel is not free floating as the stock has worn the finish off where it meets the barrel at the front....

Should I file or sand down the areas where it is touching?
Will this improve its patterning when it heats up and cools down?
Would modifying it like this change its point of impact and require re-sighting? (I don't have time to get back to the range before next weekend... closing weekend)

Are there any other mod's you might recommend?

If you enjoyed reading about "Great Brush Gun..... Reminton 600 questions" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
woof
November 18, 2008, 10:24 AM
I think you should listen to your friend, buy a new rifle, and sell the 600 to me :)

Deer Hunter
November 18, 2008, 10:49 AM
and then he says "you should really consider replacing that old .308", and I naturally ask "why?", and he says that it's just not that good of a gun, nothing like the guns that are available today... mentioning guns like his composite stock .270 and his .270 short mag. ... both with stainless barrels, no iron sights, straight up nice real life shooters guns with ample knock down for anything but the largest of game around here (Moose, and after seeing what it did to deer I would even consider these guns good for bear)...

Your friend sounds elitist. If you can shoot the 600, why should he care? I shoot my iron sight FAL better than most of the guys at our camp, and they have those .270 WSSM remchesters as well.

At this point, I fiigure he doesn't like my gun because of the short barrel (~18.5") and the inherent inaccuracy of shorter barrels (to a point)

Bullcrap. Short barrels are actually inherently MORE accurate than longer barrels due to a better chance of them being stiffer.

... to which I reply "but it's a great brush gun".... to which he says "thats what they say about every crappy gun.... it's a great brush gun... any gun can shoot straight for 50 yards"....

Elistist Snobbery. If you can shoot with it, who is he to call it crap? This guy is getting on my nerves...

which took me by suprise, hearing someone whos opinion I respect dissing what I thought was a pretty nice gun.... sure, it has some cosmetic issues, but it has been a used hunting rifle for 40 years now... and he wasn't commenting on how it looked, just on how he figures it would shoot (he hasn't shot it, but may have shot others and found them to pattern poorly)....


This gun has been out in the field shooting and killing animals across north America. It's proven itself again and again as a great firearm. You have proven yourself as a good shot. This guy wants to tell you how BAD your gun is? The gun that was your fathers? A gun that he's never even shot?

Plus, "cosmetic issues" are awesome. I hate clean, unscratched guns. They look whimpy and unused.

At this point I'd tell the guy to go pound salt.

But then again, I'm not a very nice person.

Don't touch the rifle. It's been doing its job for years and will continue to do a fine job given you have a steady hand and know your limits (which it looks like you do). Don't listen to your friend. He's probably just jealous.

Armed 24/7
November 18, 2008, 10:58 AM
I say challenge your friend to a shooting competition, to show him that your rifle can still do everything you need it to do...

Shawnee
November 18, 2008, 10:59 AM
Somehow I suspect your Dad's rifle was bringing home venison even before your buddy was anything but a gleam in his Daddy's eye.

Don't sell that classic rifle and don't tinker with it. No rifle shoots tiny groups with ALL ammo. If you really think you need to shoot small groups with it - just try some different types of ammo with that rifle.

Better yet - take your rifle and your friend with his rifle - put up a couple targets up at 200yds - then shoot at them from the standing position. Then compare your groups with his groups. I'll bet "Woof's" next paycheck that your buddy's groups won't be better than yours and may not even be as good.

Trust me ;)

:cool:

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 18, 2008, 11:05 AM
What they said. Sounds to me like your friend is *anything but* "generally knowledgeable about firearms."

and the inherent inaccuracy of shorter barrels

As mentioned, shorter barrels are inherently MORE accurate, not less, than longer ones.

Ol` Joe
November 18, 2008, 11:48 AM
One of the gun writers stated in a artical he figured "acceptable accuracy" was whatever it took to do what the gun was called on to do. It sounds like yours has had no problem "do what it was called on to do".
BTW the M7 is a M600 with a couple minor "tweeks". Ask him his thoughts on them...........:evil:

woof
November 18, 2008, 12:06 PM
Shawnee, You'll have to bet something else. Woof doesn't get a paycheck, he is a fulltime independent equities trader. Short the market, Buck Ofama.

rcmodel
November 18, 2008, 01:57 PM
Barrel length has very little to do with hunting rifle accuracy.

If your 600 will shoot 1 MOA at 100 yards, it will still shoot 1 MOA at 400 yards if you disregard bullet dispersion due to wind, etc, at longer range.

The action itself is very much like a Remington Model 700, which is the basis of some of the most accurate rifles built today.

As for the caliber & hunting the lower 48 states?
If you can't kill it with a .308, you probably shouldn't be shooting at it with anything else either, because it's in a zoo.

BTW: Your "friend" sounds like an azzhole!

NCsmitty
November 18, 2008, 02:38 PM
First off, shotguns pattern, rifles group. The Remington 600 is a rather desirable rifle these days and are bringing 3 and 4 times what they cost new. Your failure to group can be caused by many factors. Do I understand that it is a flip style scope mount to use the iron sights? If so, it is not conducive to good groups because it is really not a solid mount. Have you tried just using the iron sights for grouping at maybe 100 yds? The ammo itself may be "good enough" for your hunting situation but actually may not be the best match to that gun. You should be using 150 or 165gr bullets.
As shawnee said, do not sell the rifle based on your so-called friend's remarks. It's a keeper, especially since it was your dad's. It does exactly what it was designed to do and that's to bring home the meat.

NCsmitty

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
November 18, 2008, 03:36 PM
And the funny part is, if the rifle has a "mohawk "(a rail), then it's NOT the Mohawk model. But if it does NOT have a "mohawk", then it IS a 600 Mohawk. IIRC.

Ratshooter
November 18, 2008, 05:08 PM
First off, shotguns pattern, rifles group.

I had a Charter Arms AR-7 once. I can say without hesitation that it shot patterns.

To the O.P. You have an excelent firearm. I wouldn't consider getting rid of it. Your "friend" is another matter entirely.

RoostRider
November 18, 2008, 07:56 PM
First off, shotguns pattern, rifles group.

My bad.... simple misnomer... thanks for the correction....

Do I understand that it is a flip style scope mount to use the iron sights?

Yes. It is the Weaver brand and it snaps down into position, or can rotate off of the mount on its hinge.

If so, it is not conducive to good groups because it is really not a solid mount. Have you tried just using the iron sights for grouping at maybe 100 yds?

Thats what I suspected when putting some rounds through it at distance, so yes, I did precisely that, shot it with the iron sights.... oddly, I did better with the iron than I did with the scope (part of why I was thinking it was me).... I pretty much wrote it off to that and considered removing the scope until I could get a decent mount for it.... but I like the capability of having open sights or a scope... I dislike over/under scope mounts because of the distance off the barrel, but in reality, for taking meat at a couple hundred yards, it isn't that big of a deal... I don't plan on shooting competitions with it...

I was happy with the grouping with iron sights, so I was content to use them until I got it all figured out... until I heard from Sean and it all started to go around in my head that maybe this gun just didn't shoot well... then I got to wondering if I should even be using it... you know what hours of nothing to do but think in a tree stand can do to a guy... lol

Thanks for all the input.... I'm glad it isn't some inherently bad rifle.... now, on to my other questions about modifying the stock to float the barrel..... I can only assume it was suposed to be floating all along (it only bolts on at the breech area), but the stock actually steps up right where it meets the barrel, and it is clearly rubbing there... not real hard, but touching...

Should I do a minor modification like sanding it down right there?
Would it likely help with accuracy?
Would it alter the sighting of the rifle? (assuming I only remove what is touching)

As to my friend.... thanks for the advice on that part, but he has been a good friend for a long long time, he lets me hunt his land for free, he helps me out where he can and I do the same for him.... I'm guessing you guys don't have many friends if you dump them for something as simple as being elitist about their rifles... lol.... I'll keep this guy around and just keep in mind that he is a bit elitist about his guns when he gives me advice... If I need relationship advice I'll go to www. thelowroad.org .... lol.... just kidding guys....

I will DEFINITELY tell him about the similarities between the 600 and 7's (cause I know he likes those rifles), and maybe he will lighten up on my heirloom 'old timer' "great brush gun"... lol....

PS- he didn't know it was my dads rifle handed down to me or he may have had more tact about it all.... probably not, but maybe... lol

Thanks for all the input guys..... I was kind of bummed out about all of that this weekend, since the gun meant a lot to me (even though it was more the act of him giving me his favorite hunting rifle than it was the rifle itself)..... but I feel really good about this gun again....

The old man is retired with more deer under his belt than anyone I know, but this gun will go on to take deer and bear well into the new millennium considering I have another 15-20 years or so to use it and then I can give it to my son...

Ratshooter
November 18, 2008, 08:23 PM
he lets me hunt his land for free

Oh Well, thats different. All sins are forgiven. I think everyone is just teasing about your friend anyway.

There is nothing wrong with a tightly bedded barrel. There is nothing wrong with a floated barrel. A barrel that rubs on one side or has any uneven pressure points will give you fits. You have a nice rifle. Keep it and enjoy it.

That round should be going over 2600fps easy. Thats way out of brush gun territory.

NCsmitty
November 18, 2008, 08:23 PM
Remington bolt rifles have had the 2 little bumps that rest against the barrel near the end of the forearm for decades. It should be less of an issue on your short barrel than it would be on a standard weight 22-24" barrel. I have seen floating the barrel(removing the nubs) make a positive difference on most rifles. But it would also affect the value of the gun as it would not be original. It's your gun and your call on this issue. It's only when the barrel heats up from several shots that it might be noticeable, as they tend to walk up the target.
Good hunting!

NCsmitty

Husker1911
November 18, 2008, 08:44 PM
I had a Leupold 3x9 atop my .308 600 Mohawk, and with witnesses, fired a three-shot group, from a rest. At 100 yards, all three shots were touching. Since I wasn't going to better my own shooting, I wisely quit for the day. My friends still mention that day!

I've since had a smith friend mount a Brownell's scout mount on the Mohawk (600), and it sports a Burris Scout. It's greased lightning on a tight string, and whitetails and coyotes whisper that rifle's name in their nightmares.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/Husker1911/Mohawk600.jpg

lefteyedom
November 18, 2008, 08:58 PM
Sound like time for a duel between you and the insulter of your fathers honor.

Friday dawn, 250 yards you face west and go first with your tried old rifle. I think that that would settle the issue.

351 WINCHESTER
November 18, 2008, 09:26 PM
For a bolt gun you'd be hard pressed to find a better one. The 600 & 660 series were known for their accuracy. It's the muzzel blast that you have to overcome. Wear your hearing protectors and get a slip on recoil pad if the recoil bothers you.

Remington had a recall on the 600's trigger mechanism. If it was fixed the trigger will have the letter v stamped on the side of the trigger. If it's not stamped call Remington's customer service as they will fix it for free.

As far as accuracy goes a lot of folks would be suprised just what kind of accuracy one can get with a 18.5" bbl. All things being equal a shorter bbl. will usually outshoot one with a longer bbl. Less bbl. whip, quicker bullet exit.

Shawnee
November 18, 2008, 09:53 PM
Don't gunsmith that fine classic.:banghead:

Please reread the previous sentence several times.


A high school chum had the 600/660 rifles in 6.5mm Rem. Mag. and .350 Rem. Mag. Both of those rifles shot 100yd. groups with all shots touching...

...but... as "351 Winchester" opines - Ya had to really work at getting groups that tight because of the blast from that short barrel. Listen to him and do your group shooting with ear plugs AND ear phones.

If your buddy is a longtime friend that's good because that makes it easier to ignore him.

Did I mention you should NOT do any gunsmithing on that great rifle?

;)

351 WINCHESTER
November 18, 2008, 10:07 PM
Speaking of a .350 rem. mag. I had a nice one. It was real nice until I took it out to sight in. That was over 30 years ago and my shoulder still bothers me today. I finally sold it to Wild West Guns in Anchorage. Too much ctg. for such a light gun unless you are being charged by a bear or a moose. I figured it belonged in AK.

Shawnee
November 18, 2008, 10:15 PM
"(the .350 Rem. Mag.) Too much ctg. for such a light gun "


You got that right in Spades !!! Touching that thing off was like being in a small car wreck. :eek:


:cool:

williamd
November 18, 2008, 10:29 PM
I have a couple of M600 (243 & 308) and a M660. All are fine guns. The 660 is a 350 RM that will certainly get the job done. I like the laminated stock. I use low power scopes - 2.5, 3 and a 4 with a flip up post. A great carry gun. If I am after Mtn Goat for Antelope I will take along a longer bbled 7MMM with more scope power, but the Rems are my favorites.

Loggerlee
November 19, 2008, 01:12 PM
My take on this.
I hunt the in close stuff with a 94' Winchester,the thing groups around 4" at 100yrds,great rifle though,it handles great,and the follow up shots I don't need are always there.

I've got a .280 for longer range stuff,it would work in close but I like the 94' "it's a great brush gun" haha

If you enjoyed reading about "Great Brush Gun..... Reminton 600 questions" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!