Aluminum bullets?


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indoorsoccerfrea
November 18, 2008, 10:58 AM
what effect would casting aluminum bullets have on a gun? im certain that there would be high fps out of the barrel and fragmentation on impact, what other effects does the high road commonwealth of information predict?

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Jim Watson
November 18, 2008, 11:01 AM
The only reliable report I have of naked aluminum bullets showed high velocity and very poor accuracy. A dealer here also had a complaint from a customer of aluminum fouling in his barrel from the aluminum jacketed WW Silvertip .45s.

gvnwst
November 18, 2008, 11:07 AM
It may laso be (depending on grade) that the aluminum could start to melt, due to barrel and air friction, and the hot gasas pushing it. This would make for poor accuracy, but high velocity.(melted metal would act like lube)

What a copper jacketed aluminum bullet would do is something to be looked into.

The Bushmaster
November 18, 2008, 11:12 AM
Fast from the muzzle and fast slowdown due to light weight. Might get 100 yards with enough hitting power to piss some one off...

taliv
November 18, 2008, 11:13 AM
the ss190/192/195 rounds in 5.7x28 are aluminum core but not naked

Jim Watson
November 18, 2008, 11:14 AM
I think the first iteration of the 7.62 CETME had a copper jacketed aluminum cored bullet, too. But that isn't the same thing as casting aluminum.

indoorsoccerfrea
November 18, 2008, 11:16 AM
so it sounds like the general consensus would be to coat the aluminum in some other metal such as copper? would the aluminum have to be even all throughout the inside of the bullet? for instance if while casting the copper around the aluminum core the aluminum melted. the outside would still be copper, but the aluminum would not be in the exact center. would that throw off the balance of the bullet in flight?

ProCarryNAustin
November 18, 2008, 11:26 AM
I would think that the round would shed velocity too quickly to be effective. If I want to leave a welt, there are plastic sabots already out there.

Daniel
Austin, Texa

indoorsoccerfrea
November 18, 2008, 11:41 AM
does anyone know where i can find molds for 223? i cant seem to find them.

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
November 18, 2008, 11:45 AM
Lead has a much lower melting point than aluminum, I don't see it melting in this application. Something to think about is the fouling, lead fouling is slick. Aluminum on aluminum has an extremely high coeffiecient of friction; maybe enough for a pressure spike.

indoorsoccerfrea
November 18, 2008, 11:46 AM
i cast aluminum as a hobby, getting it to melt wont be a problem as i have a full size foundry. i also have a 2 gallon capacity graphite crucible.

benEzra
November 18, 2008, 11:48 AM
the aluminum would not be in the exact center. would that throw off the balance of the bullet in flight?
Yes. And depending on how bad the imbalance was, it could really screw up accuracy, if it caused major nutation to develop.

BTW, at one time there was ultra-lightweight aluminum-bulleted ammunition for .38 Special called "Thunderzap," I think. It doesn't appear to have been a commercial success. From what limited info I have, I think it was something like a 47-grain aluminum JHP traveling at very high velocity (for a .38).

The low density of aluminum would allow you to make a 30-grain .223 bullet, for example, that you could drive at insane velocities. Alloying and/or heat treating might be necessary to prevent bullet disintegration at high RPM's and/or excessive leading, and it would lose velocity quickly. You would also need to be careful about the 1986 AP bullet ban; per the BATFE, .223 Remington falls under the following regs:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

greyling22
November 18, 2008, 12:11 PM
in the movie Eraser I believe they used a railgun to fire aluminum projectiles "near the speed of light" and they were devastating on expendable bad guys. it was in a movie with the Govenator , so you know it has to be feasible and realistic.

MD_Willington
November 18, 2008, 12:22 PM
aluminum oxide... where have I seen that before.. oh yeah, blasting media... !!


Aluminum Oxide is a sharp, long-lasting abrasive sandblasting cutting media that can be re-used many times for grit blasting. As an abrasive blasting media, it is harder than most common dry abrasive blast media and will cut even the hardest metals and surfaces. This particular abrasive blasting media comes in a wide range of sizes.

The Deer Hunter
November 18, 2008, 12:23 PM
Since aluminum is so light, there won't be a lot of penetration.

gvnwst
November 18, 2008, 12:39 PM
If you ahd a equivilant wieght (super long bullet) it may work. Best to be jacketed, but it would be the definition of VLD:D

rcmodel
November 18, 2008, 12:47 PM
I think it would be a total waste of time.

Aluminum is so light the sectional density of the bullet would be dismal.

Poor range, poor penetration, and in general, just poor performance.

Existing rifling twists designed for lead bullets would be unsuitable for stabilizing aluminum bullets, so they would be very inaccurate, and probably tumble before reaching the target.

BTW: Jackets and cores are not "cast" during the bullet making process.

An aluminum core would be cut off a section of aluminum rod or wire of the proper diameter.
Then placed in a formed copper jacket and swaged into shape.

WardenWolf
November 18, 2008, 12:47 PM
Aluminum will BURN at the high friction and temperatures inside a barrel. When it burns, it produces nasty black stuff and a highly toxic gas. It also smells REALLY bad. You really do NOT want to do it. Aside from depositing all kinds of nasty stuff inside your barrel that normal gun solvents aren't designed to clean, the potential for toxic gas when the breach opens along with the nasty smell ought to be enough to change your mind.

alemonkey
November 18, 2008, 03:16 PM
I'm still waiting for Hornady to come out with depleted uranium bullets. :D

rcmodel
November 18, 2008, 03:24 PM
Heck, we can already get Extreme Shock Nytrillium bullets.

What could depleted uranium do that Nytrillum can't do better! :rolleyes:

rcmodel

C-grunt
November 18, 2008, 03:34 PM
^^^Actually work???

HA HA HA

benEzra
November 19, 2008, 06:50 PM
Nytrillum
I guess that's kind of like unobtainium, only more tactical?

JohnKSa
November 19, 2008, 07:11 PM
Before you spend the time getting set up to cast aluminum you should work out the difference in the coefficient of expansion between aluminum and whatever metal the mold you find was designed around. If there's a significant difference then the bullets you make will be the wrong size.

rozziboy18
April 10, 2009, 07:53 PM
i have played with this for a while. i took a hollow point 165 40 preloaded and heated it and poured out most of the lead leaving a thin film on the walls of the inside of the copper jacket, then slowly mealted in aluminum from a aluminum alloy brasing rod. it took a cupple of trys to keep from melting the copper but i finaly sat it in a shallow pool of watter and pulled it off. much more accurate than aguila iq's 3 shots 4inch spred at 25'' could probly do better after some fine tuning. the ol' chonograph said 1850 fps on the first batch and no sign of over pressure so i dosesed it up a bit and got to 2013, 2043 2020 on the last three. i havent totaly turned them into hollow points but more or less a copper jacketed alloy bullet. i think after some light machine work it will make on hell of a personal pretection round

telomerase
April 10, 2009, 08:06 PM
Unless you live on the Moon, you don't have any aluminum (at least not on the outside, five seconds after it touches the air). You have aluminum oxide, which is about as hard as sapphire. That's why they coat aluminum bullets with copper or something...

IIRC, the British used aluminum-nose bullets to make them tumble, before WWI. That's why they tricked the other powers into signing the "no hollow points" codicil. (And it's one of the thousands of reasons that no one trusts the Brits :rolleyes:)

Bezoar
April 11, 2009, 12:40 AM
arent there photographs of aluminum round balls fired at full velocity from a 50 bmg that made grapefruit sized holes in steel plate with a good amount of spalling on the opposite side?

DAVIDSDIVAD
April 11, 2009, 12:45 AM
Since aluminum is so light, there won't be a lot of penetration

Yeah, just like Cor bon's all copper bullets get less penetration because copper is lighter than Lead--- OH WAI




NOTE: All DAVIDSDIVAD posts are the work of a highly egregious, superbly stupendous, overtly expertly young man, and are not to be taken seriously, at any time.

BhmBill
April 11, 2009, 01:01 AM
I shot some aluminum .45 auto stuff from my bro's 1911. Other than being the loudest and having the biggest muzzle flash from any semi auto round i've ever fired, it believe it'd make a halfway decent round. The one's i shot were HP's and they did expand, quite well. They were only around 95gr, but then again, plenty of people use 60 - 120 gr bullets for self defense.

I personally will stick to whats known to work. .357 JHP's for me.

Funderb
April 11, 2009, 01:05 AM
good luck home casting aluminum. Hope you gots lots a argon sitting around.

Sunray
April 11, 2009, 01:18 AM
Al bullets have been discussed before. Not here and not recently. Al is not dense enough for bullets. To get the same weight, an Al bullet would be far too long, in any calibre.
"...shot some aluminum .45 auto stuff..." Made by whom? Al cases aren't the same as Al bullets.
"...in the movie..." Anything is possible in a movie or an animated cartoon. It's fiction. Not fact. Facts just get in the way of telling the story.

MD_Willington
April 11, 2009, 01:53 AM
telomerase

Mk 7 .303 British
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British#Mark_7

herohog
April 11, 2009, 03:16 PM
A Sabot hives light weight and high velocity yet has a smaller diameter so it doesn't shed as much velocity. It is a better answer than aluminum.

WardenWolf
April 11, 2009, 04:32 PM
Aluminum bullets = bad idea. Aluminum has a low melting and burning temperature, and can exceed this while going down the barrel. The result would be it sloughing off large pieces of itself in the barrel. Bad for the gun, bad for accuracy, bad effect on target. Jacketing could help, but I still wouldn't recommend it. Oh, and did I mention it gives off TOXIC gasses at high temperature?

woodybrighton
April 11, 2009, 05:50 PM
(And it's one of the thousands of reasons that no one trusts the Brits )
that right we are evil bwhahahahaaa

good luck with DU bullets :eek: every range sealed off as a health hazard:banghead:

Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
April 11, 2009, 07:21 PM
I'd go for some copper jacketed aluminum core 7.62x39, it would sure crank up the velocity of my saiga.

telomerase
April 12, 2009, 03:56 PM
Thanks Willington, better info than I had read before (and straightened out my chronology). Tenite in 1910, who would have thought?

MD_Willington
April 12, 2009, 06:26 PM
I'm both a Canuck and a Brit, double threat.. LOL

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