range


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natural marksman
November 19, 2008, 10:04 AM
Hi everyone.

Was thinking about how you need to adjust the sights of a gun to accomodate for a particular range.

I know that on the M16/M4 rifles and the other AR15-type guns that the wider apeture is for targets between 0 and 200 meters, and the tiny apeture is for targets out past 200 meters.

is it the same with the M1 Garand and M1/M2/M3 carbines? How does it work with other rifles?

would greatly appreciate any info anyone has on this...

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NavyLCDR
November 19, 2008, 10:37 AM
It's perfectly legal to adjust the sights on any rifle. You might get a better answer if you post your questions in the general rifle forum.

Treo
November 19, 2008, 11:11 AM
I'm not sure about the Garand (but by God I think it's wonderful that someone in Australia has one :D) That said, I always used the small aperture on my M-16 and I saw a noticeable difference in how tight my shot groups were.

Please feel free to take that for what its worth

natural marksman
November 24, 2008, 11:20 AM
hey Treo...

sorry to dissapoint you but I don't actually own a Garand. But I bloody well will before I die! hehehe. No I was just wondering because I know a lot about the M16 and the Garand has the same sights.

Although I've not shot any rifles yet, I was just curious but I appreciate your input. Thanks man.

Treo
November 24, 2008, 03:12 PM
No worries!
So being as you're actually down there can you give us a sit-rep? Is there any chance of Australia regaining her gun rights, ever?

natural marksman
November 25, 2008, 07:42 AM
I don't know what sit-rep is, but we Aussies have alright gun rights as far as I know.

My uncle owns a few rifles and shotguns - 12 gauge, 22-250 and .30-06. He gunned down a Kangaroo a few weeks back and gave us some of its meat.

I remember on the news a month or so ago, a house was attacked by two gunmen with semi-auto rifles. Nobody was hurt, but the bullets shreaded through a few bedrooms and the garage. The reporter chick only gave a brief description of the guns used: .30 caliber and semi automatic. I think they might have used Garands, which makes me hope I can get one one day if someone here has one.

Well, I can research further about our gun laws if you want to know more or whatever.

Andrew

Treo
November 25, 2008, 12:07 PM
sit-rep is a situation report , in what's the situation? The reason I ask is that what we're hearing is that it takes about 9 months to work through the process to buy a gun.

Here, I can walk into Wal-Mart and walk out W/ an unregistered rifle less than an hour later.

ar10
November 25, 2008, 12:59 PM
It takes practice. The way I was taught was when looking through the rear sight line up the wings equally, then sight the center post on the target. After shooting 4 or 5 k rounds it just sort of becomes second nature.
What needs to be remembered are battle rifles were never intended to be target rifles. So if you hit your target and it/they go down the battle rifle did its job. And you really don't have the time to adjust wind/elev when you have to use it.

natural marksman
November 25, 2008, 08:56 PM
Yeah that seems reasonable, that sort of thing is only practical if you're a sniper. I mean, if I was getting the hell shot out of me - number 1, I wouldn't give a flip about the range adjusments and number 2, I wouldn't have the nerve to hold the proper sight picture anyways - you have to return fire!

I guess it doesn't really matter, but it's good to know :) thanks for the info.

I had heard about the gun laws in America being that laid back. Hell, if it was like that here, I'd have turned my room into a firearms art gallery by now!

Yeah, it is pretty time-consuming to get into shooting and owning guns down here. 9 months? Shoot me now, I'll be 20 before I get my first gun! That's dissapointing. But yeah, I'll look up the actual laws and stuff for you.

Just out of curiosity, why so interested in Australia? Hoping to move here or something? What I hate is that handguns have to be a particular length (larger than 6 inch barrel or something like that) and no handgun can have a magazine capacity greater than 10 rounds. That and the fact that it'd take so long to get the gun

Andrew

natural marksman
November 25, 2008, 09:35 PM
ok Treo, this is the stuff I will one day go through to legally own any kind of gun and the corresponding lisence for it. Will research more on how long the whole lot takes to process, but here it is.

This is the process for the state of New South Wales according to the Sporting Shooters Assosiation of Australia (SSAA) the national gun club I think. The process will vary between states (but in Australia there are only 8 states). I live in Sydney, so here's what I have to do. Brace yourself...

1.
Telephone the Firearms Registry (1300 362 562) and ask that they send you a Firearms Licence Application.
The registry staff will ask you for some basic information and send you a personalised application in your name.

2.
When applying for a licence you must post the the following to the Firearms Registry:
- A completed "Application for a Personal Firearms Licence Form" (P561)
- One or more of the following completed "Genuine Reason" forms:
° Target Shooting (P660), Recreational
° Hunting/Vermin Control (P661),
° Collecting (P662)
- A certificate showing you have completed an approved Firearms Licence Qualification Course, such as the "SSAA Safe Shooting Course"
- A copy of your current SSAA membership card marked with T, H, and/or C, to show that you have the relevant activities registered with your club.

* If you are applying for a firearms licence to hunt, you may supply a copy of a property owners "letter of permission" to use their property for this purpose instead of, or as well as, showing that you have H on your membership card.
You cannot submit your application for a Firearms Licence, to the Firearms Registry, until you have passed an approved Firearms Licence Qualifcation course.

3.
Firearms Licence Qualification Course: A certificate showing you have completed an approved Firearms Licence Qualification Course, such as the SSAA Safe Shooting Course must be submitted with your licence application.
- When you’re ready to do the Safe Shooting Course, you will need to complete a NSW Firearms Registry Declaration Form P650, which will allow you to handle firearms during the course. To avoid any disappointment on the day, click here for a sample of the personal history questions from the declaration form.
- If you truthfully answer NO to all the questions, you can go ahead and book in to do the Safe Shooting Course. If you answer YES to any question, you will be required to complete the form and send it to the Firearms Registry. Please speak to the Safe Shooting Instructor if you answer YES to any of the questions.
- When you attend the SSAA Safe Shooting Course please bring suitable personal identification, such as a driver's licence. Minors should bring a copy of their birth certificate.

4.
Finally, and just as important as all the other steps, in order to keep your Firearms Licence and your firearms you must meet the Minimum Attendance and Safe Storage requirements, as specified by the Firearms Act.
The number of attendances required depends upon the genuine reasons that you specified when applying for your Firearms License and which your Firearms Licence specifies as approved.

How long that all takes to get processed completely, I will find out for you later. I copied that straight from the SSAA website. If you like, you can visit the site for yourself = www.ssaa.org.au

I'll keep looking though

Andrew

natural marksman
November 25, 2008, 11:32 PM
Hey all, was also wondering (completely unrelated to the range settings)...

I know the M1 Garands comes in .30-06, as it was standardised for that cartridge when it was adopted by US military during the 30's, and also for .308 Winchester (or 7.62x51mm NATO) during the 50's.

Are there Garands available in other calibres and cartridges? Thought it'd be cool to get one (some day) in .223 Remington or a similar 5mm caliber cartridge.
And are there any Garands available with the gun made from anything other than wood? I saw in a movie once a girl playing around with an M14, it was ivory-colour, and I liked it. Must have been plastic, like some sort of polymer.

Any info will be nice. Thanks guys

Andrew

Treo
November 26, 2008, 01:36 AM
Just out of curiosity, why so interested in Australia? Hoping to move here or something?

Living in ( or at least visiting) Australia has always been a dream of mine.

With all due respect, I wouldn't move there now solely because of the strict gun laws.

My question was more along the lines of " If you guys (blokes? means the same thing) can reverse the trend towards a total gun ban then we can too.

I mentioned a 30 minute wait for a firearms purchase ,mostly due to a computerized background check, here but there was a time when there was no background check and you could purchase a firearm like buying a pair of shoes.

I live in Colorado Here I can legally strap on a pistol ( or long gun) and walk down the street W/ out a second thought and I can buy a used gun from a newpaper advert W/ no background check (or any record that I ever purchased the gun) at all.

As for your Garand question I've never seen one in .308 but I have seen composite stocks

natural marksman
November 26, 2008, 02:44 AM
Yes LoL - bloke is another way of saying guy, but is used exclusevly to males. You would say "hey guys" to a group of boys and girls, but a bloke is a man, so you can't say "hey blokes" to the same group.

The waiting period for NSW (New South Wales) is 28 days for the background check. They really want to make sure they don't approve a convict for a gun license here, but it's all sensible as much as it is annoying. The 28 days is to confirm the background and all, but I think (if I read correctly) you have to wait 28 days again once your application and license is approved until you can actually buy a gun.

And another thing: there are a number of prohibited types of guns, specifically, any that are used by the military. So that means there's absolutely no chance a civilian (or even army reserve personnel on leave) can own an AuSteyr F-88 (Aussie AUG) or M4 carbine.

There are 7 firearm classes, of which you need a license for each one if you want to have any gun from all classes.

Category's:
- A
- B
- C
- D
- H
- Firearm Collector
- Firearm Dealer

Someone earlier asked if semi-auto's were illegal. An M1 Garand is classified as a Category D weapon, described: "self-loading centre-fire rifle". Self-loading, being semi auto or full auto, I think, so if you can get a Category D license, you can legally own a Garand. HOWEVER...anything bigger than category C is prohibited for limited purposes, and the internet site doesn't specify what those are. So it's possible but very difficult.

To be an Aussie resident and be a shooter is somewhat difficult. It's so complicated. And the laws don't vary all that much between states either.

One down side to being down under :D

Andrew

natural marksman
November 27, 2008, 08:19 AM
Hey Treo...

Here's a highly detailed article on just about anything you'd want to know about gun laws, history and all stuff like that in Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

You and me are alike...you'd not come here soley because of the extreme gun laws - and I'd move there soley because of the lack of restriction in gun laws (and also Disneyland :D)

Andrew

Treo
November 27, 2008, 12:41 PM
Disneyland aint all that

natural marksman
November 27, 2008, 05:52 PM
It's nothing anywhere near what we have here...but that was just a joke :)

Sunray
November 27, 2008, 07:52 PM
"...same with the M1 Garand and M1/M2/M3 carbines..." The M1 Rifle, as issued, had one size aperture and you adjust the sights accordingly. There are 'match' sights available. The rear sight aperture is smaller and the front sight blade is 10 thou thinner. That allows for a more precise shot placement. Cheap, they aren't.
"...Are there Garands available in other calibres..." Springfield Armory Inc made M1's chambered in .30-06, .270 Win plus one other cartridge that escapes me at the moment. Not being made now though.
There are lots of .308/7.62 converted M1 Rifles. Change of barrel and not much else is required. Other than a spacer in the mag well to make up for the difference in cartridge length .
A .223 is too small to work in a regular M1 action.
An issue M1 Carbine came with two kinds of rear sight, but they're not on the rifle at the same time. Early carbines had/have a fixed, 'flip', rear sight with different apertures, made for two different distances. Later carbines come with an adjustable rear sight with one size aperture.
An M2 Carbine is Full Auto. As in machine gun. Same sights. An M3 had a first generation IR night sight scope mount. Same iron sights though.

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