Makarovs Anyone?


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Olympus
November 20, 2008, 11:02 AM
I've been toying with the idea of getting a Makarov, but not too seriously yet. I saw one of the FEGs that were the two-tone color and really liked the looks of them for a cheapo pistol. Does anyone have any particular experience with those?

The reasons I've been considering the idea is because it would make a nice smaller concealed carry which I don't have. The 5 inch 1911 gets a little cumbersome and tends to sag my pants down if I wear it for long periods of time, even when wearing a belt. I've always wanted a sub-compact XD, but maybe I could get a Makarov for about half the price and still be happy with it. Then I thought it would be a nice will plinker pistol for range shooting and the ammo wouldn't be nearly as expensive as the .45. And another thing I thought was that it would be a good nightstand gun for the misses when I'm out of town and carrying my .45.

What are anybody's thoughts on the Makarov? I've never shot one or heard much about them. I know there are different variants, kind of like a Mauser rifle. So which ones are the ones to stay away from and which ones are the better ones?

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md2lgyk
November 20, 2008, 12:16 PM
Can't answer your questions directly, but check out www.makarov.com

coney_hatch
November 20, 2008, 12:27 PM
I own both a CZ-82 (Mak clone in 9x18) as well as a Bulgarian "Arsenal" Markarov in 9x18. I looked at the Hungarian FEG PA-63, but the DA trigger pull is sooooooo long. The SA wasn't as bad, but nowhere near my Bulgarian Mak, nor my CZ. Personally, while the FEG PA-63 & its cousin the Polish P64 are cheaper in price (could get a PA-63 for $149 + tax in Atlanta), the trigger pull simply wasn't to my liking. I'd recommend the Bulgarian or East German Mak if you're serious about getting one. The Russian's are typically considered good quality, but the East German and Bulgarians' are considered better.

I got mine off of forums.gunboards.com, and paid $260 shipped for the Arsenal Bulgarian Mak. Most on Gunbroker are well over $300 for the same. You can probably pick up a Russian for under $300, East German for under $350.

I carry either a Kimber ultra carry or my Para LTC. I have carried the Bulgarian Mak in an ankle holster as well. The CZ is heavier than the Mak, but not as much as my 1911's.

My $0.02.

steelhead
November 20, 2008, 12:33 PM
http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=429937

This is my East German.

JR47
November 20, 2008, 12:38 PM
Makarovs are blow-back pistols, and their 9x18 cartridge reflects that limit, as applied by the Soviets.

We own an East German, and a Russian IJ-70 Makarov. The East German is superior in just about every way.

9x18 ammunition can be difficult to locate locally, and is pretty much equal to .380 ACP in standard guise, although the ammunition isn't interchangeable. The .380 uses a .355" bullet, while the Makarov's is .364", or thereabouts.

There are a number of small .380 pistols that are lighter, and actually cheaper to buy, than the 9x18 Makarov.

The Makarov is an interesting example of the "other side", but not necessarily the best CCW weapon. :)

Stephen A. Camp
November 20, 2008, 12:41 PM
Hello.

http://hipowers-handguns.blogspot.com/2008/06/makarov-gem-worth-money.html

Best.

Pilot
November 20, 2008, 01:12 PM
I've been toying with the idea of getting a Makarov, but not too seriously yet. I saw one of the FEGs that were the two-tone color and really liked the looks of them for a cheapo pistol. Does anyone have any particular experience with those?


It may be in 9MM Makarov caliber but the FEG's are not Makarov pistols. THe FEG's are PA-63's and are very similar to the Walther PP. If you want a Makarov, get a true Makarov. The Bulgarians are the best value, IMHO, but there are others from Russia, East Germany and China to be had. Hungary never made a Makarov.

jocko
November 20, 2008, 02:37 PM
The east german is all quality throughout. I sold hundreds of Mak during my gun dealing days. Never knew until I opend the cartons if I had any east german models in there or not, there was a big difference.

Mine has never given one issue. a super gun for the money, just super.

alittle heavy for pocket carry but duable..

Ron James
November 20, 2008, 02:56 PM
I have a FEG PA63, no problems, very light with the Aluminum frame, I converted mine to to .380, why? for giggles and grins and a better selection of ammo. It's really an unauthorzied copy of a Walther PP. Note, I said copy , not clone.:uhoh:

Kevinch
November 22, 2008, 12:57 PM
The true Makarovs are great little guns. As mentioned, a little heavy but very reliable & sturdy. Prices are up now, but a few years back (10?) they were the best value going in a handgun.

I have a few of them - spent a little money on this piece in some light customizing:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g276/Kevinch/Firearms/Mak4_MEDpixel.jpg

MMC night sights (adjustable rear), Pearce grips, Nolan Hi-drop mag release, etc.

usp9
November 22, 2008, 01:18 PM
The Makarov is an interesting example of the "other side", but not necessarily the best CCW weapon.

I'd agree. I have a Makarov M and a CZ82, both of which work well, neither of which is a showcase of the gunmakers art.

regal
November 22, 2008, 01:45 PM
I own a Makarov and think it is not good for carry. First the finish is delicate at best. Second it is big and heavy for such a weak calibre. You can literally get the same firepower in half the size.

The Makarov is a target shooter pistol with excellent accuracy, SA trigger, and cheap ammo.

mercop
November 22, 2008, 01:57 PM
I carry my Bulgie once in a while and would have no reservations with having it in my CCW rotation. In my experience they are stone cold reliable which is more than I can say for many pistols who cost 5 X as much.

JR47
November 22, 2008, 02:05 PM
Funny, but most people think, and state, that the minimum defensive caliber is .38 Special, or 9x19. Yet, the Makarov has gathered a following while being larger, heavier, more expensive, and less well-finished than many smaller, lighter, .380 ACP guns.

They are holster guns, with a caliber just slightly more powerful than the .380 ACP. There are a number of better choices available.

However, if you HAVE a Makarov, and DON'T have one of the smaller, lighter, guns, they SURE DO beat wishing that you were armed. :D

mercop
November 22, 2008, 02:18 PM
"stopping power" with any caliber is relative

krs
November 22, 2008, 02:47 PM
Yes, and power of 9x18 ammo is relative too. There are several varieties of ammo in the Makarov caliber and by my 'seat of the pants' comparison ALL of it is more powerful than any available .380.

The Eastern Bloc countries had ammo that was designated for use in their submachine guns in the Makarov caliber that is quite powerful and sometimes available from Wideners and other importers. The Silver Bear hollow point ammo that's easy to get is definitely more powerful than general .380.

Yet I've only seen one ballistic chart that laid out the power of the round in numbers that could be compared to others. That chart (was it in Steve Camp's site? I don't remember but probably have the link somewhere). Most reloading manuals state that the power of the round is on a par with .380 but I've never understood why they would say that in light of the fact that the cartridge is both longer and bigger in diameter than .380, hence able to hold more powder and push a heavier bullet. It's just one millimeter shy of 9x19 and still bigger in diameter than 9mm Luger.

A clarification please?

Oh, ya, I have four beautiful East German Makarov pistols that I air out periodically and carry one of once in a while. I've fired them side by side with my Sig 232 - one in one hand, the other in the other hand and believe me, the round kicks harder.

They're ugly, but they are great pistols. I've had all of mine since the days they could be bought for $79.95 or less all over the place.

neal7250
November 22, 2008, 02:59 PM
I have on of them Bulgarian jobs. It is very dependable. I've had mine for 3 years, and have never had a hang up or anything.

mercop
November 22, 2008, 03:09 PM
I don't find them ugly at all. Mine has a beautiful blue finish and it's slender barrel and receiver front make it comfortable to carry.

7.62X25mm
November 22, 2008, 03:20 PM
They're not that small. Used to be you could pick up a Bulgarian Mak for $97 out the door. Those days are gone forever. They're pretty much in the .380 ACP class in terms of ballistics -- and you can find lots of 380 ACP that are smaller, lighter, about the same price.

I bought a Russian "commercial" Mak, double stack mag, 12 rd. Then I went to makarov.com and purchased grips for it, followed the article about "finishing" and smoothed out the action.

Ammo can be hard to locate. I found some East German stuff which was pretty hot ballistically, but mostly you'd be better served with a 380 ACP in a smaller size or a small 9mm like the Kahr.

krs
November 22, 2008, 04:28 PM
do you still have the double-stacker, 7.62?

Reason I ask is that I bought one when they started coming in, thinking the extra capacity would mmake the pistol just about perfect. But that sucker would never run right - couldn't make it through a magful witout one kind of jam or another so I eventually got rid of it.

Apple a Day
November 22, 2008, 05:14 PM
I have a couple of Makarovs. I've carried a Bulgarian for years as my CCW and have no qualms about it. It's a little on the heavy side for its size but it's been 100% reliable, scary-accurate, and was cheap (at the time I bought it). The finishes have stood up just fine. I carry it in a holster instead of a pocket so the weight isn't a big deal. Bottom line: I trust it.

I had a FEG PA-63 for a while. It's lighter than the Makarov although it uses the same cartridge. It was so light it wasn't fun to shoot. After 100 rounds or so the feed ramp would get cruddy enough that sometimes the cartridge would drag and it wouldn't go all the way into battery. Keep it clean and it worked fine.

AMMO: A lot of the commercial ammo is loaded about even with a .380 ~95 grains, hence the comparison, I think. The old military stuff I used to buy by the pile was 109 grain and pretty stern. I think Silver Bear makes a 120 grain hollow point.

Janos Dracwlya
November 22, 2008, 05:45 PM
My wife and I both have Maks - her's is Baikal IJ-70 with adjustable sites, mine is a Bulgarian Arsenal brand - and both have served us well over the years. Mine was my CCW for several years (until I got a great deal on a Sig P-225, though not as nice as the deals now), and hers is still her primary CCW. I still carry mine once in a while. They are solidly reliable, and quite accurate. Good magazines used to be available for practically nothing as well. Obviously, I think they are fine CCWs.

JR47
November 22, 2008, 05:59 PM
The Eastern Bloc countries had ammo that was designated for use in their submachine guns in the Makarov caliber that is quite powerful and sometimes available from Wideners and other importers. The Silver Bear hollow point ammo that's easy to get is definitely more powerful than general .380.


Just to save time, there is a thread on this site that dealt with this ammo. It was NOT designed to be fired in the Makarov, and can damage it.

I find comparisons that link one specific load against "general" ammo to be useless. If you're going to pick a load, compare it to a similar load in the other caliber.

If you go to the various web sites of the manufacturers, they will list the ammo by caliber, and give the ballistics. The largest variable is the length of the test barrel. A longer barrel tends to inflate the ballistics somewhat, so be sure that what you compare is as close as possible to the gun in questions barrel length.

I'm hardly saying that the Makarov won't work. I'm just pointing out that it's nowhere near the "minimum power floor" that so many Internet Commandos have read about, and espouse. :)

shimniok
November 22, 2008, 06:01 PM
I shot a friends Mak and was very impressed... much less recoil and so more controllable than my FEG PA63. (both 9x18) The post about DA trigger pull on the FEG -- yeah, not just long but really heavy. I'd never want to fire DA on that gun. I've heard nothing but great stuff about 'em. And I would expect parts availability is good. Altho I am toying with the idea of getting one of those surplus CZ 82's from J&G's (or somewhere).

woad_yurt
November 22, 2008, 10:38 PM
A Makarov is the only semi-auto, in my opinion, that is as reliable as a revolver. They just work and work. The things are great shooters, too, very easy to hit your mark. Everyone who's shot mine has complimented it. Before you leave it for your wife to use, however, make sure she can rack the slide as it's a stiff one.

If you're thinking of a Feg, get a hammer spring and heavier recoil spring from Wolff (about $20 total.) The gun will then have a very nice DA trigger and the recoil is lessened tremendously. Swap out those things and it becomes a very nice pistol.

The CZ 82 is a great gun but it's sooo big in comparison. The Mak is a great carry pistol with a holster.

Pilot
November 23, 2008, 03:02 AM
Maks are great and also good carry pieces. Nothing wrong with 9x18.

ultradoc
November 23, 2008, 07:53 AM
I got my East German Mak about 15 years ago and have not had any problems with it. Very nice,very happy. I just got a Polish [mak.] P-64. The trigger is really hard. It takes almost two hands to pull it back. Well maybe not quite but I do need to look at it and get that taken care of. It's still alot harder than my East Ger.trigger. My opinion...get a true Mak. Good luck.

JZ06
November 23, 2008, 12:58 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/JZ06/4108IJseventyssmak-1.jpg

this is my ij-70 9X18. i've owned a bulgarian, e.german and a few russians. all have been very good to me. my dad liked my bulgarian so much he took it from me :evil:

if you like a reliable gun, the mak is for you!

sophijo
November 23, 2008, 01:12 PM
I have a Russian Mak and its absolutely reliable. When they were a hundred bucks; I wish I'd bought more of them. Fit/finish on the Germans is the best. The problem now is that prices have risen to $300 and up so there's a lot of competition out there. Not a lot of choices re ammo either especially compared to 9mm (9x19). BTW you can get a Sig P6 for $300.

bluetopper
November 23, 2008, 01:22 PM
True Makarovs can't be beat for reliability and accuracy for a pistol its size. I was big in to them several years ago when prices for them were great and have owned and sold many from each country they were manufactured except China.

My interests have moved elsewhere but I still have a few stashed in discreet places around the house and in my pickup.

The East German Mak pictured is used courtesy of user and my good friend North Bender, currently serving all of us in Afghanistan.

ZombiesAhead
November 23, 2008, 03:19 PM
I've carried a friend's Polish "Makarov" in 9x18 and would rather carry it any day than my Glock 19 or CZ-75. The tiny size is great and the gun never fails.

mercop
November 23, 2008, 03:44 PM
Loving the G19 and the CZ75 I am not sure I would go that far. Except for maybe price the Mak doesn't have much on these guns.

Pilot
November 23, 2008, 03:49 PM
Loving the G19 and the CZ75 I am not sure I would go that far. Except for maybe price the Mak doesn't have much on these guns.


I like the G19 and CZ-75, but the Mak is smaller and slimmer than either of them. If size is an issue the Mak has that over both these guns. I have four Maks and carry a Bulgie from time to time.

Randyc74
November 23, 2008, 07:57 PM
I have the Russian Commercial IJ70 that I purchased for $150.00 in 1997. It's not the best looking pistol I own, but it has never failed. I'm also set up to reload if I decide to start shooting it again. Right now it sits in my safe and is only used to make holsters.

Z71
November 23, 2008, 08:18 PM
I have owned two of the Russian commercial IJ 70 Makarov pistols in 9x18. Both were/are very good reliable pistols. Not nearly as cheap as they used to be.

jon_in_wv
November 23, 2008, 10:11 PM
I've carried my Bulgarian Makarov quite a bit. I think you would be served very well by it. It is a LOT smaller and easier to carry than a 1911. There are smaller and lighter guns of better caliber but none that have an advantage in reliability. They go bang all the time and they are very accurate and, for me, one of the easiest guns to shoot really fast. I don't worry about the stopping power of the 9x18 when I can likely drop 3-4 round into the black in a hurry.

denfoote
November 24, 2008, 03:49 AM
I have, at least, one Makarov from every country that made them, including a couple of commercial variants.

My carry Mak is a commercial Bulgarian made by the Arsenal factory.
It's stone cold reliable.

http://usera.ImageCave.com/denfoote/NewGrips1.jpg

Pistolet Makarova is the AK-47 of the pistol world!! :evil:

Litlman
November 24, 2008, 10:12 PM
I picked up a Bulgarian a while back for $250, it was the only one that I had seen in this area. Runs great & I can shoot it well. I wish that the old prices would come back because theses are realy good guns. I just found another Bulgarian that was a little beat up for $175, I said I'll take it. I just ran 100 rounds through it last week and again , balls out accurate , not a hiccup. I do want more! I have no problem carrying these waepons for self defense and I have 38's, 9's & 357's.

coney_hatch
November 24, 2008, 10:25 PM
Forgot to post pics of my CZ-82 & Bulgarian Arsenal Mak:

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q345/coney_hatch/arsenalmak.jpg



http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q345/coney_hatch/CZ-822.jpg

Q-Gunner2
November 24, 2008, 10:36 PM
I own four Makarovs. One Russian, two Bulgarian, and one East German.


They are great self defense weapons. What matters is ammo... the best, in my opinion, is Gold Dot or the older Silver Bear hollow points. Why? Because first off, two myths need to be dispelled:

1. Yes, it is a blow back pistol. That means the weight of the slide and the recoil spring, as well as the seal of the case to the chamber during firing (friction), slows the opening of the action until pressure drops. The Makarov is heavier, yes- and it also has a heavier slide, and- within reason- higher pressure loads create a tighter seal on the chamber, increasing friction and delaying action opening.

2. The 9x18 is more powerful than the .380. Most .380 loads get around 200 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy. The 9x18 loads (the Silver Bear loads, especially) can get close to 280 + ft/lbs. of energy (115gr. hollow point Silver Bear loads, which are pretty much +P+, good for carry, but no longer sold). The MFS Hungarian +P ammo clocked at 225 ft/lbs. of energy, but it is still not the most powerful out there.


EDIT: The Corbon stuff, also discontinued, gets 280 ft/lbs. of energy for a 95gr. HP. Like I said, there are options out there.

Aside from that, the Makarov is retard proof. The finish varies by weapon, some suck, some rock. But it is retard proof. They work. They have a heel mag release, which is less likely to get accidentally hit while carrying and drop the mag, and they have a decock as well as a safety so you can carry hot but DA, or hot but safe, or just hot on SA (I don't recommend that, of course).



There are better guns out there, but for the price, Makarovs are great options. And as far as "minimum power"... if you get shot in the face with a Makarov, my bet is, you won't be so hot about robbing or raping the person you were initially after. This goes with anything from the 9x18, up to the .50 AE. Shot placement is key. A 9x18 to the chest is also likely very effective. Speculation on my part, of course, but I don't know of anyone who enjoys being shot.

JR47
November 25, 2008, 12:04 PM
Being shot in the face with a .22 Short, from a Beretta 950Bs would have much the same effect.

http://www.makarov.com/tech.html Tghis page lists most of the available, at the time, 9x18 ammo.

In all of the tests, the heavy-weight loads averaged between 225-234 ft/lbs. As the available CorBon SD38090 gives you 220ft/lbs, that's not exactly a huge gain.

The Makarov is 6.34" in length, weighs 25.74 oz., and holds 8 rounds in the magazine.

The Kel-Tec P3AT is 5.2" in length, weighs 8.3 oz., and holds 6 rounds.

The Ruger LCP is 5.16" long, weighs 9.4 oz., and also holds six in the magazine.

The Kel-Tec PF-9 is 5.875" long, weighs 14.5 oz., and holds 7 rounds of 9x19 ammunition in the magazine.

The Kahr P-9 is 5.8" long, weighs 15.0 oz., and also holds 7 rounds of 9mm Pammo in the magazine.

My point was that the Makarov CAN be used for self-defense, but is marginal in size and power, according to many. SEVERAL other guns are available that are as cheap to buy, as powerful, and lighter and smaller. Several others are available that are definitely more powerful, but lighter and smaller, but more expensive.

It is, after all, your choice. However, there's nothing magical about the 9x18 cartridge, or the gun that it goes into. It was a different choice, made by a vastly different thought process, a long time ago.:)

krs
November 25, 2008, 01:15 PM
You're just pissed that you didn't buy any for $79.95 when they flooded the C&R market, JR.

QGunner, I still have 15 boxes of the "The 9x18 loads (the Silver Bear loads, especially) can get close to 280 + ft/lbs. of energy (115gr. hollow point Silver Bear loads"
you mentioned, but also have a bunch of 120 gr silver Bears, and thought all Silver Bears were of the same two characteristics until I saw someone post about a 110 gr HP Silver Bear. When I asked that poster about the difference he never answered. I seldom drag out any of my 9x18 Mak guns these days and have a stock of ammo from several years ago. Brown Bears, Silver Bears and bloc surplus, some of which is still in the sardine cans of odd numbered amounts like 480 rounds, 720 rds, ...things like that that used to make me think that they counted using something other than our numeric system :)

Anyway, thanks for clearing up part of the Silver Bear discrepancy.


Hmmm:Manufacturer: RBCD Performance Plus Ammunition, San Antonio, TX
Headstamp: *-* 9x18 MAK
Cartridge Case: Brass Case (Starline), boxer primed, non-corrosive
Bullet: 39.2-gr (1 measured), lead-filled or coated tip, convex (bulged) copper-coated base
Magnetic:No

OAL (ins) (5 rounds)
Range: 0.940 – 0.946
Avg: 0.943

Velocity: (fps)
Velocity (fps): 1671, 1661, 1558, 1640
Avg: (1512)

now THAT sounds interesting...

JR47
November 25, 2008, 03:51 PM
Actually, I bought an East German for just under $100.00, and a new in the box Russian IJ-70 for $89.00. I'm quite fond of the E. German pistol, but I wouldn't spend the $300.00 that one costs today to CCW it. I'd spend much less for a smaller. lighter, Kel-Tec P3AT, or a PF-9.

I put Pearce grips on both Makarovs. The crappy import special thumb-rest grips that they had on them aren't for left-handed people.:D

Q-Gunner2
November 25, 2008, 05:43 PM
Actually, you are not correct on that.


.22 LR, .22 Short and .25 ACP all actually can ricochet off of the facial bones... their energy is easily redirected, moreso than the 9x18. They also have far less penetration, far less expansion and a smaller bullet diameter.


The Makarov is far more controllable and accurate than the other options you listed. I own a PF-9 as well. 8 rounds of 9mm in 1/3 the weight sounds nice. But then add in the extra recoil, the fact the mag catch can be accidentally hit when carrying close to the body, how hard it is to keep the sights on the target with rapid fire, the noise and muzzle flash that is blinding in low light... the fact is, you don't get something for nothing. The PF-9 also will not hold up to high volume shooting as long as the Makarov will. I've shot both at night, it is a big deal.

For anyone who is interested, there is also a "Corbon" Pow'rball load, currently made, with a 70 gr. bullet (polymer tipped hollow point to offer penetration and expansion) offering 294 ft/lbs. of energy. The weakest self defense load I know of offered is Hornady, at 221 ft/lbs. for a 95gr. hollow point. Then there are Brown Bear hollow points which, depending on the type, can push 260 ft/lbs.

The Makarov will do serious damage with the right loads. It is significantly more powerful than the .380, that is a fact. It is accurate, it is controllable, and if you are more anal about the finish on your gun than your own life... well, fine, go buy something else.



My point is not to say that the Makarov is the best self defense pistol ever, because that is subjective. But it is a very viable defensive weapon. It is more powerful than people think, accurate and reliable, and simple. If you don't like that, fine. Go buy something else.

mavracer
November 25, 2008, 07:59 PM
The Makarov is 6.34" in length, weighs 25.74 oz., and holds 8 rounds in the magazine.

The Kel-Tec P3AT is 5.2" in length, weighs 8.3 oz., and holds 6 rounds.

The Ruger LCP is 5.16" long, weighs 9.4 oz., and also holds six in the magazine.

The Kel-Tec PF-9 is 5.875" long, weighs 14.5 oz., and holds 7 rounds of 9x19 ammunition in the magazine.

The Kahr P-9 is 5.8" long, weighs 15.0 oz., and also holds 7 rounds of 9mm Pammo in the magazine.
I'd be more than happy to shoot an IDPA/IPSC match against any of these with my MAK
remember power,SPEED AND ACCURACY
not trying to say it's the perfect CCW just a viable blend of power,reliability,accuracy and controlability.

sadp40
November 25, 2008, 08:20 PM
with an east german makarov. it showed itself very well. even in my halfassed hands. i have a milt sparks summer special for my mak, and have carried it.
i never ever felt undergunned with it.

Trebor
November 25, 2008, 08:37 PM
The Makarov is 6.34" in length, weighs 25.74 oz., and holds 8 rounds in the magazine.

The Kel-Tec P3AT is 5.2" in length, weighs 8.3 oz., and holds 6 rounds.

The Ruger LCP is 5.16" long, weighs 9.4 oz., and also holds six in the magazine.

Your bias is showing. Your comparisions that prove the Mak is inferior to these other pistols are valid *only* if you prefer lighter guns guns for defensive use.

For me, I prefer my guns to be slightly heavy for their caliber. That makes them easier to shoot. I can shoot my Makarov better then a Ruger LCP or a Kel Tec. I know, because I tried them both.

The Kel-Tec PF-9 is 5.875" long, weighs 14.5 oz., and holds 7 rounds of 9x19 ammunition in the magazine.

I'll give the Kel Tec 9 the nod for power, but not for reliability. I've never been impressed with the reliability of any of the KT's that have come through my CCW classes.



The Kahr P-9 is 5.8" long, weighs 15.0 oz., and also holds 7 rounds of 9mm Pammo in the magazine.

Now here is a valid argument. The Kahr is a quality pistol and fires a more powerful round then the Makarov. It's still a little light for my taste, but it is a valid comparision.

Yeah, I can see a Kahr being a "Makarov killer," in everything but the price.

Thor Bloodax
November 25, 2008, 08:57 PM
My PA-63 is absolutely reliable, and very accurate. Recoil is stiff since the pistol is so light. Trigger is fine and very crisp. I have seen one which felt lke sand was in the trigger mechanism but not mine. I usually carry mine in a belly band holster when I need to be more discrete about being made. Very happy with mine.

Q-Gunner2
November 25, 2008, 10:54 PM
Recoil with the PA-63 is also heavy because it has a poor recoil spring in it... The factory recoil spring is far too light, the factory hammer spring is far too heavy (ironically).


I went to Wolff and put their heaviest recoil spring in my PA-63, and then one of their mid-strength hammer springs. The result? A DA trigger pull you can use, far more manageable recoil, and higher round count life since the slide won't beat the crap out of the alloy frame.

gbelleh
November 25, 2008, 11:05 PM
I still carry an EG Makarov on occasion. They're great guns.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/gbelleh/3maks.jpg

mercop
November 25, 2008, 11:32 PM
Got a holster being made for mine now. This thread made me do it.

BlackHand1917
November 25, 2008, 11:58 PM
I used to own an E. German Mak before the burglars got it. It was a fine pistol. I had a little problem with a broken safety and sent it to a gunsmith. After test firing the Mak the smith was so impressed with the accuracy he begged me to sell it to him!

Glockorama
November 26, 2008, 12:04 AM
Two-tone Makarov...I can hang with that...:D
http://a898.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/128/l_513215c3b4ffd5e26e41d8d84e5beea9.jpg
http://a697.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/124/l_60f092e1930325abb547e3b56ab1e140.jpg

mercop
November 26, 2008, 12:11 AM
nice, very kewl

Olympus
November 26, 2008, 11:57 AM
I'm really digging the two-tone! I'm guessing that's a duracoat finish? I bet it doesn't show holster wear.

But back to things, I handled the FEG and it felt like a cheap toy really. I wasn't all that impressed with it in my hand. The pictures of them online make them look a lot better than they do in person. But I'm having trouble finding a true Makarov. I've been looking on GunBroker and I'm seeing them starting at $300! I thought Maks were supposed to be fairly inexpensive? For $50, I could find a nice used Glock or XD! Where is the best place to find a good relatively cheap Mak...because it's apparently not GunBroker!

krs
November 26, 2008, 01:52 PM
Olympus, it's not Gunbroker's fault. A seller asks what he wants, a buyer decides yes or no.

I have four East German Makarovs and didn't pay more than $80. for any of them, but that was when they flooded the gun market about ten years ago. Even allowing for inflation there's no way they could be had for under $150. today, and because they are not making more of them and they have obtained such a reputation as to make people desire one for themselves $300. is not excessive, it's cheap.

Sure, you can find Glocks, Sigs, S&W police throwbacks for under $400. but it's all about what you want and how much you want it.

I also bought a Colt Gold Cup in 1974 brand new for $340. I can buy another new Gold Cup for about $900. today, but if I want a NIB 1974 Gold Cup today I'd better be ready with around $1500. today.

Can you get this?

JR47
November 26, 2008, 04:10 PM
My own Kel-Tec pistols, a P32, P3AT, PF-9, and P11 have all been reliable over the years. The P11 has a trigger-pull measured in inches rather than pounds, as it goes on forever, but it's always fired.

Anyone can have personal preferences about weight of gun vs. caliber. I respect that. However, the idea of carrying a small gun is to pack enough power into it to make it work. You'll be carrying it literally thousands of times longer than you'll be using it. When the time comes to use it, heavy or light isn't a consideration measured in ounces of difference. Until then, though, even a few ounces can make a difference in when you'll carry a gun.

The 9x18 caliber has not garnered any type of record in combat, or police work, the two areas where records are usually kept. It does, however, make an excellent execution weapon, against a non-resisting person. That appears to have been it's largest use behind the Iron Curtain. There haven't been even anecdotal stories of it's use in Afghanistan or Chechnya.

RUT
November 26, 2008, 06:17 PM
>>For $50, I could find a nice used Glock or XD!<<

Oh, do tell.......

38snubnose
November 26, 2008, 07:22 PM
Can I play?
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88308&stc=1&d=1227745235

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=88309&stc=1&d=1227745235

woad_yurt
November 26, 2008, 09:22 PM
I have a suspicion that if there was never any Com Bloc Makarov to begin with and if it never sold for dirt cheap and if Beretta or S&W or some other big name company first made the pistol and sold it for $300, it'd sell like hotcakes. It's a great gun. Newbie shooters I've taken to the range with me have had no trouble hitting their targets with it and always say that they liked it a lot. It's a really user friendly pistol, both in use and in maintenance. Fiocchi ammo makes 265 ft lbs and Pow'RBalls are at 242 ft lbs. Those are decent figures considering that they get shot from one of the easiest to control pistols around.

Angus Lincoln
November 26, 2008, 10:13 PM
My Bulgarian Mak is a most comfortable gun to carry. It is completely reliable and a joy to shoot accurately. I consider it's stout nature to be a big plus. I've never cared for featherweight carry guns. The original military grips were functional, but when I put a set of Marschal grips on it, it gave it a whole new feel and look. When the 1911 is too big and the J frame is too bulky, my little Makarov keeps me safe. The Silver Bear HP seems like a decent self defense round for it, however, I have heard some prefer ball ammo for more penetration through heavier clothing.

Litlman
November 27, 2008, 11:55 AM
Have you guys checked out the ended auctions on the popular sites ? Bulgarians are going for well over the $250 mark! So if anybody wants to get rid of their Maks for doubel the price of their initial $89 dollar investment , I would be happy to buy them! Locally , FTF of course.

xring
November 27, 2008, 03:53 PM
I too agree that the Makarov is an excellent pistol. But... as was stated, an FEG is NOT a Makarov. I'd also firmly state that the CZ 82-83 are NOT Makarov clones. That's like saying the CZ75 and Browning (FN) High Power is the same pistol.

woad_yurt
November 27, 2008, 05:52 PM
Xring:
Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying that. Anything that fires 9x18 is called a Makarov these days and it drives me crazy.

mercop
November 28, 2008, 08:33 PM
Figured I would post where I am getting my IWB holster for my MAK-
http://aircopcustomcarry.com/

TripleL
November 29, 2008, 11:48 AM
Olympus,

You've probably read the recent posts on the Makarov forum about several members finding Maks for less than your budget but here are the links anyway:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=77774
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=77765
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=77747

Be forewarned...Makarovs have a tendency to multiply. Most owners just cannot stop at one (okay, I'm guilty) which is why they're so hard to find nowadays.

senior
November 29, 2008, 08:43 PM
Picked up my IJ70-18A on;line awhile back, never shot or carried and bluing is perfect, still had manual saying it was test fired in 1994, put some hogue rubber grips on it and now i dont want to shoot it! LOL Picked up some Russian Wolf military classic 9x18 for a little over $8.00 a box of 50.

krush
December 1, 2008, 07:04 PM
I have a IJ-70 I just got. And I want more now......

Anybody that feels they have too many, give me a shout. I'm in VA, but I can do FFL xfers if need be.

PS: I love it and I'm hooked. Going to get a couple p-64's too.

Olympus
December 2, 2008, 09:40 AM
>>For $50, I could find a nice used Glock or XD!<<

Oh, do tell.......

Bargain shopping at gun shows! If you have enough patience and know where to look they're not that difficult to find. I've seen several XDs for $375-$385 and I'd be fairly certain that the guys would take $350 cash if you flashed it in front of them. Maybe not now with all the gun scare going on, but I've seen them before. I've seen some Glocks around that price too. They were in a rougher shape though. But I go to every gun show within a 2 hour drive.

But back to Makarovs! Those dang things are just getting too hard to find. I ended up buying a P-64 from J&G. Everything I hear about their supply is that they're almost all unissued and still in cosmoline. They've got a 2 week back up on shipping stuff out so I'll have to wait a while. But I'll have to post some pictures when I get. $196 was the total price with tax, shipping, and FFL fees. Hopefully the little thing will be worth it. I've already placed an order for the Wolff spring kit too.

RUT
December 2, 2008, 09:47 AM
$350.00 for a used Glock I can see, but the $50.00 thing threw me for a loop. Obviously a typo on your original post. :)

coney_hatch
December 2, 2008, 10:07 AM
I just picked up an East German Makarov with German authentication paperwork with factory signatures & matching serial #'s yesterday. It looks nice next to my Bulagarian Arsenal Makarov, which sits next to its CZ-82 cousin. Looking to snag a nice Russian Makarov next.

Replicating like friggen rabbits.....

Olympus
December 2, 2008, 11:19 AM
$350.00 for a used Glock I can see, but the $50.00 thing threw me for a loop. Obviously a typo on your original post.

Yeah I guess I left out the word "more". I guess I was on a role and it made sense to me at the time. I was just making the statement that a lot of the Maks on Gunbroker are really getting expensive and you could get a Glock or XD for just a little bit more and get a good caliber variety. My stinking dad has an E. German that he used as a personal duty weapon when before the PD he worked for gave everyone Berettas. He still has it and refuses to sell it to me. I guess it will be part of my inheritance! But the dumbass took orange flourescent paint and hand painted the front sight so he could see it better! It looks like crap.:banghead:

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