Arizona ammo ban


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9x45
November 20, 2008, 04:29 PM
Well, it didn't take long

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/48leg/2r/bills/hb2833p.htm

excerpt from the text

Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Title 41, chapter 12, article 5, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 41-1772, to read:

START_STATUTE41-1772. Ammunition coding system database; sale of ammunition; tax; fund; civil penalty; violation; classification; definition

A. Beginning january 1, 2009, a manufacturer shall code all handgun and ASSAULT weapon AMMUNITION that is manufactured or sold in this state. This section applies to all calibers.

b. Beginning january 1, 2011, a private citizen or a retail vendor shall dispose of all noncoded AMMUNITION that is owned or held by the citizen or vendor.

c. The department shall establish and maintain an ammunition coding system database containing a manufacturer registry and a vendor registry.

D. A manufacturer shall:

1. Register with the department in a manner prescribed by the department by rule.

2. Maintain records on the business premises for at least seven years concerning all sales, loans and transfers of ammunition to, from or within this state.

3. Encode ammunition provided for retail sale for regulated firearms in a manner that the director establishes so that:

(a) The base of the bullet and the inside of the cartridge casing of each round in a box of ammunition are coded with the same serial number.

(b) Each serial number is engraved in such a manner that it is highly likely to permit identification after ammunition discharge and bullet impact.

(c) The outside of each box of ammunition is labeled with the name of the manufacturer and the same serial number used on the cartridge casings and bases of bullets contained in the box.

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AZAndy
November 20, 2008, 04:34 PM
This bill has not been passed, only proposed. It ain't goin' anywhere. This is Arizona, dammit. ;)

ants
November 20, 2008, 04:35 PM
This is from February.

Click on Calendar here: http://www.azleg.gov/DocumentsForBill.asp?Bill_Number=HB2833
It's first and second readings were Feb 21st and Feb 25th but no action is recorded on the calendar after that.

I appreciate your vigilance, but it is rather unfair to say, "Well, it didn't take long" when this happened 9 months ago.

AirForceShooter
November 20, 2008, 04:36 PM
and your Governor may be running Homeland Security soon

AFS

Ben Shepherd
November 20, 2008, 04:37 PM
Alright Arizona, who is the dingus that proposed this bill, and just HOW did they get elected in the first place?

Whatcha all doinn' down there?

AZAndy
November 20, 2008, 04:37 PM
And the replacement for the Governor is a Republican...

KBintheSLC
November 20, 2008, 04:41 PM
Gee, I sure hope this "gets shot down". Those are some outlandishly ridiculous demands.

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 04:46 PM
and your Governor may be running Homeland Security soon

AFS


That didn't come from a governor - it came from the state legislature. BIG difference between the two.

camslam
November 20, 2008, 04:53 PM
This is old news, but I have used this as an example for all of our fellow High Roaders that tell us the sky isn't falling.

I moved to Arizona in January of 2008 and heard about this proposed legislation and it shocked me as well that in Arizona we had this type of law being proposed.

I think you can thank California for unloading a significant number of their anti-gun liberals on our state, but that being said.

If people don't wake up, this is what is coming. Laws like these are being pushed and passed in all kinds of states around the country.

Right now, Arizona still has some good gun laws, other than the fact that a CCW can't carry in a place that serves alcohol or on school grounds, both are stupid laws that might change now that JaNo is on her way out.

But overall, gun owners better get vigilant and active when it comes to their gun laws, because a storm is coming on the federal level, so we'd better get involved on the local level.

TEDDY
November 20, 2008, 05:07 PM
boys open your eyes there is a bill in each state even in SC.tell you legislater if it pass they will pass and make it stick.the thing is nobody will get ammo as the ammo companies will be so screwed up they wont be able to run ammo.and when the police cant get it what do you think will happen??
:rolleyes::uhoh:

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 05:13 PM
I think you can thank California for unloading a significant number of their anti-gun liberals on our state, but that being said.
You'd be surprised. We have the same complaints here in Western NV that pop up sometimes. People who like California, and think California is doing something right - stay in California. The people who leave California in favor of places like AZ or NV - by and large are people who think CA is a screwed up place to begin with, and no longer want anything to do with it....


Right now, Arizona still has some good gun laws, other than the fact that a CCW can't carry in a place that serves alcohol or on school grounds


The school grounds thing is questionable - but I am 100% in favor of no guns in bars. Hell - just the other night I had some idiot who had a few too many, and just snapped. Started goin off on people for no real reason - thinking everybody in the place wanted to fight him. In the end nothing happened, as a few of the larger customers got him outta there - but I can only imagine what he would have done had he been carrying. I'm sure that's a situation that plays out daily all across the country.
That's not to say he's a bad guy, or that in general he has bad judgment - but people tend to do stupid things after they've had a few. Adding firepower is just a recipe for disaster.

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 05:15 PM
boys open your eyes there is a bill in each state even in SC.tell you legislater if it pass they will pass and make it stick.the thing is nobody will get ammo as the ammo companies will be so screwed up they wont be able to run ammo.and when the police cant get it what do you think will happen??


That's to assume there won't be exceptions for LE/Military/Security forces - which is kind of a short-sighted assumption.
Even as it stands today - if you're a hired security guard at a nuclear facility - you don't need a class3 for fully auto, and many of the import bans are exempted. LE has all sorts of exemptions from laws that us common folk have to live by...

Axess Denyd
November 20, 2008, 05:18 PM
I suppose it's a good thing that there's no such thing as "assault weapon ammunition", anyway.

alistaire
November 20, 2008, 05:24 PM
I suppose it's a good thing that there's no such thing as "assault weapon ammunition", anyway.

WHAT? You've never heard of the deadly 22 short assault weapon ammo?

30 cal slob
November 20, 2008, 05:25 PM
pfffft. if we killed it in CT last year, rest assured you can kill it in AZ.

that is, if you're not complacent.

Jim K
November 20, 2008, 05:26 PM
That ammunition marking bill couldn't even pass in MD. The guy pushing it has the patent on the process and wants to make money, he doesn't give a damn about crime or anyone's rights.

Plus his marking process couldn't possibly keep up with an ammunition production line, something he hadn't known until officials from Federal testified at a hearing. Apparently he never saw a production line and knows nothing about how ammunition is made.

Repeat - this is a guy with a patent who wants to make lots of money by catering to the anti-gun nutcases.

If you write legislators on this, stress that the proponent is out to line his own pockets, and that his process is impractical.

Jim

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 05:33 PM
...that his process is impractical.

Everybody knows this is impractical, and would cause ammo production to come to a grinding halt. Isn't that the whole point to begin with?

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 05:34 PM
As far as the patent thing goes - I think there would be a case that could made that passing a law like this inhibits free enterprise.
That would essentially be the government telling private business that "you have to use this technology, from this company, and pay for it out of pocket". I imagine the mfg's could really sink their teeth into that legally and get it struck down pretty fast.

armoredman
November 20, 2008, 05:42 PM
This bill made it nowhere. Even our Democrat lawmakers I contacted said it was stupid. No worries. If Napalitano leaves for Homeland Insecurity, we will get the better end of the deal. She doesn't want to leave, due to the fact she HATES her replacement...

Speedo66
November 20, 2008, 06:47 PM
"LE has all sorts of exemptions from laws that us common folks have to live by.."

Almost all of those exemptions are for the dept., not the individual.

As a LEO I can't just buy what ever I want. I don't know where you get the idea that LEOs are exempt from all laws citizens have to follow.

I have less choice than you do as to what I can carry. I'm limited to one model and caliber gun. Even my ammo, bullet weight and type of bullet, is directed, on duty or off.

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 07:02 PM
"LE has all sorts of exemptions from laws that us common folks have to live by.."

Almost all of those exemptions are for the dept., not the individual.

As a LEO I can't just buy what ever I want. I don't know where you get the idea that LEOs are exempt from all laws citizens have to follow.

I have less choice than you do as to what I can carry. I'm limited to one model and caliber gun. Even my ammo, bullet weight and type of bullet, is directed, on duty or off.


Understood - but I think the implication was, no LE agency would be able to purchase ammo without these stampings either - which would make it really difficult on those agencies. I somehow find that hard to swallow. You personally might be limited to the same laws as common citizens are - but in terms of all of the sudden cops don't have bullets, i mean, come on.

scrat
November 20, 2008, 07:32 PM
You guys better make sure it dosent go any where. start writing and calling up your local congressman. you need to make sure that does not get passed. SAme time you guys beter start learning how to reload

Hardtarget
November 20, 2008, 07:44 PM
Just stop selling ammo to the law enforcement. Let them sweat finding ammo...then see how fast they want to rethink this.

Think that would work?

Mark.

Others had the same thought. Make SURE the law shoots the encoded ammo. They should get it first...to show how good it works to identify the shooter. Need to know who fired their ammo as well. Need to find out where this came from...and get RID of that scum.

rr2241tx
November 20, 2008, 09:32 PM
Just because a law is stupid, impractical and unenforcible doesn't necessarily mean it won't be passed. We are still trying to win the War on Drugs by locking up our kids and letting the billionaire drug lords take over entire countries. Prohibition passed, as a Constitutional Amendment no less. We pay people not to work and threaten to cut off their welfare checks if they do get a job. We The People were charged by the founders to force the government to remain accountable and within the framework established. We failed, miserably. The only way to get our country back is to stop being sheeple and vote the rascals out. 36% of eligible, registered voters didn't even bother. Evidence suggests that 50% of those who did vote probably should not have. Until we have an education and activist movement equal to or better than the opposition, we are not really living up to our obligation as citizens. Your elected representatives should each one know your name and address by heart and have no doubt how you feel on every issue that comes before them.

camslam
November 21, 2008, 03:57 AM
I think you can thank California for unloading a significant number of their anti-gun liberals on our state, but that being said.
You'd be surprised. We have the same complaints here in Western NV that pop up sometimes. People who like California, and think California is doing something right - stay in California. The people who leave California in favor of places like AZ or NV - by and large are people who think CA is a screwed up place to begin with, and no longer want anything to do with it....

Sorry, there may be some people that are sick of the lousy politics found in California that move out of state, but by and large, most people move for economic reasons. Cheap housing was available, compared to California prices, for years in Nevada and Arizona. In addition to the influx of immigrants into Arizona and Nevada, the primary reason both of those traditionally strong conservative states have evened out quite a bit, are our friends from California coming in.


Right now, Arizona still has some good gun laws, other than the fact that a CCW can't carry in a place that serves alcohol or on school grounds

The school grounds thing is questionable - but I am 100% in favor of no guns in bars. Hell - just the other night I had some idiot who had a few too many, and just snapped. Started goin off on people for no real reason - thinking everybody in the place wanted to fight him. In the end nothing happened, as a few of the larger customers got him outta there - but I can only imagine what he would have done had he been carrying. I'm sure that's a situation that plays out daily all across the country.
That's not to say he's a bad guy, or that in general he has bad judgment - but people tend to do stupid things after they've had a few. Adding firepower is just a recipe for disaster.

Bars aren't the only places that serve alcohol. Here in Arizona, if I go out to dinner at any restaurant, besides fast food, that serves and sells alcohol, I cannot legally carry. Thankfully MOST concealed carry permit holders aren't stupid enough to carry in a bar and then get completely sloshed in the process, thus rendering their judgement moot. There was a case a few months ago in Nevada, where a concealed carry permit holder pulled his gun in a bar after 2 people had been shot, and he shot and killed the assailant while he was reloading. Why should my right to defend myself or my family be limited because I am going out to dinner?

Utah has the best CCW laws in the country. It allows for school carry, as well as carry in establishments that serve alcohol. Strangely enough your argument that alcohol and guns don't mix, doesn't play out with shootings happening all the time. Your argument is similiar to the the anti's claim that when CCW is passed and allowed, there will be shootouts in the streets all the time.

Anything CAN happen, but thankfully the scenario you paint, doesn't happen often.

When it comes to gun rights, less isn't more. :rolleyes:

Starship1st
November 21, 2008, 08:06 AM
This bill has got to go. I am contacting my legislator and advising all my friends to do the same: VOTE "NO!" if this comes to a vote but kill it in comittee.

Thanks for the alert :fire:

Afy
November 21, 2008, 08:11 AM
1. How do you distinguish between assault weapon and non-assault weapon ammo in the same caliber.
2. How will the serial number survive in the case of a frangible bullet like the varmint grenade?
3. How will you ensure identical serial numbers on reloaded rounds?

This is a piece of legislation that is unenforceable.

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