gun in the face


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knockonit
November 20, 2008, 09:54 PM
I just got a frantic call from my 19 year old that goes to night school at the community college
she was getting off the freeway and at the light a fella came up from a few cars back and stuck the barrel of his revolver in her window and threatened to shoot her if he got in front of her again.
She was so scared, she drove right to the gas station on the corner and ran in screaming, they called the police, she gave them his license number and a description.
We'll see if it goes anywhere.
I'm thinking it might need other attention.
what would you do.
She knows about guns, she just can't legally carry one here, especially on campus.
So we'll see how this ends.
Just crazy man, shes 19 about a 105 lbs wet,
we'll just see.

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Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 10:06 PM
There's crazy people out there - what are you going to do?
What "other attention" are you going to provide that wouldn't land you in jail?

knockonit
November 20, 2008, 10:10 PM
Yeah, you're right, but the helplessness that comes with something like this, well just makes ya wanna hurt something
oh well , rant off.

Sinixstar
November 20, 2008, 10:12 PM
agreed.
That however is what seperates "us" from "them". We *want* to hurt something, but we understand the consequences of our actions, and act reasonably.
They, simply act (as you've clearly seen...)

Mossberg88
November 20, 2008, 10:17 PM
Because of how helpless she was, and because youre a.) a father, and b.) HER father, its natural that you would want some vigilante justice. But remember, other than a little shaken up, shes unharmed, which is the most important.

Treo
November 20, 2008, 10:25 PM
O.C. spray?

ridata
November 20, 2008, 10:25 PM
Good on her for getting his license number and paying attention to what he looked like.

knockonit
November 20, 2008, 10:29 PM
I just got off the phone with a friend who owns a shop, he's gonna drop off a taser for her, so she'll be able to lite some pepperwood up if she needs to. She can carry it on campus.
Bummer it comes to this kinda stuff.
thanks to all.

hso
November 20, 2008, 10:32 PM
We're relieved that she wasn't injured or worse.

This is going to be difficult, but have her write everything she can think of about the incident for analysis later to try to find how it might have been prevented and how the threat could have been mitigated.

Would keeping the windows rolled all the way up, or nearly so, been beneficial? Would hitting the gas when the pistol appeared have helped? Would she have had enough room to hit the gas and pull around the car in front of her or out into the intersection or onto the curb and into traffic? What incited the lunatic to assault her? Why did he target her?

The after action analysis depends upon how much information she can get down while the incident is fresh in her head.

harrygunner
November 21, 2008, 12:13 AM
Glad she is OK.

If she is also in Arizona, I'd get her some firearms training. She's too young for a concealed carry permit, but AZ is very flexible about carrying handguns.

A gun in a holster in the glove compartment is legal. She can even open carry at age 18, off campus if that works for her.

If she can have a gun in the car the parking lot on campus, I'd get her trained and equipped.

DoubleTapDrew
November 21, 2008, 01:08 AM
I'm glad she is ok! You might want to let her know that at the moment he pointed a gun at her she is legally justified to respond with deadly force, and just because she isn't old enough to carry concealed doesn't mean she can't have a gun at all like harrygunner noted. I'm not advocating getting into a gunfight but it might calm her down to know she doesn't have to respond to an armed guy with her fists if it comes down to a life or death situation. And in most states you can own a handgun at 18 regardless of whether or not you are old enough for a CHL.
Hopefully the guy will get what's coming to him.

Kind of Blued
November 21, 2008, 01:42 AM
Keep us updated. If she really got an entire plate, chances are good that this creep will be out of EVERYONE's hair, thanks to your quick-thinking daughter.

I'm very glad she wasn't injured.

armoredman
November 21, 2008, 01:57 AM
She can open carry in AZ at 19. Wholly or partially visible is the law. On campus, no, we keep losing on that one.

NavyLCDR
November 21, 2008, 03:16 AM
That's a tough one. I would have my .45 in my holster. But with the BG's gun only inches away, I think the safest option, regardless of the availablitly of any method of self defense would have been to duck and hit the gas, in whichever direction was clear, either forwards or backwards.

I mean, let's honestly evaluate the situation - what good is a taser or OC going to be in this situation. First, you would have to either roll down the window or open the door to use either. Now it does say he stuck the revolver IN her window, but now we have the situation of playing quick draw. Can I successfuly both draw and deploy a self defense weapon before the BG can react by simply pulling the trigger. Am I willing to bet that he is too chicken s**t to pull the trigger?

I'm sorry, the odds are, in the case where he already has the upper hand, in favor of the quickest and safest defense - in this case rapid acceleration. Now, I might consider grabbing his arm or trapping it in the window, because forward acceleration would pull him back and his arm would be forced forward preventing him from aiming backwards back at me. I wouldn't hesitate to drag that SOB to the nearest place where I decided it might be safe to stop, which might just be a mile down the road.

If he came up from several cars behind, how in the world did she get his license number? That's just amazing, she should be greatly commended for that.

Starship1st
November 21, 2008, 07:18 AM
1st I am glad your daughter is okay, but understandably shaken-up.

2nd I applaud your daughter for not being a victim and having sence of mind to drive away and yet give a description and license #.

3rd is I admire you for practicing restrant. Let the law deal with this scrum. I would indeed convince your daughter to press charges and get this creep cited.

I had better not say any more because as I think about it the madder I get. :cuss:

rust collector
November 21, 2008, 08:13 AM
Sounds like road rage, and I'm glad no one was hurt. I'm sorry your daughter and this wingnut crossed paths. Sounds like she did a good job under the circumstances and the posters above are correct, there is little that can be done under conditions such as this. Even if your daughter had a gun, a dive for it could have been disastrous.

The only fix would seem to be help law enforcement locate and disarm the punk and get him the psychological/ anger control help he needs. She is doing her best in that regard, and I hope that will help her through this.

I've never had a gun in my face in my 56 years, and I hope I never do. I don't think anyone who hasn't had the experience knows what they'd do.

knockonit
November 21, 2008, 08:19 AM
Got the whole story, she got a plate number, vehicle description, and perp description.
Gave to Scottsdales finest, she did tell them she might have messed up on teh last number as she was crying so hard she could hardly see.
She said she thought of trying to drive out of it, but was jammed between cars.
She said there were cars on both sides and behind her, and couldn't go anywhere. She couldn't go anywhere till he moved.
Not sure what the local leo's did or are gonna do, she's gonna give them a call today.
I'll follow up when I have a little more.
I did get her a Taser, one of the new small ones.
Also she is a very good shot, and has gone thru several hunter safety classes and even though she can't ccw, has done the class with a friend.
She is not able to have a weapon at Scottsdale Community college, their rules and its on Reservation land, we all know what that means.
It could be a situation, time for a change.

Regardless hopefully the leo's will deal with it.
WE'll see what today brings

scythefwd
November 21, 2008, 08:39 AM
If you pop someone holding a gun with a tazer, can the current (which runs over the skin) be transferred to the backstrap and the rest of the gun and ammo and possibly setting off the primers?

Alan

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 21, 2008, 08:45 AM
Let's just say, for reasons of discussion, that this jerk had a fake gun (which should be red on the muzzle, but could have been painted black, which I believe would be a felony in itself).

OK, let's say the gun was fake and he pulled this EXACT same stunt with someone legally carrying a gun and they shot him, either handicapping him or killing him.

I wonder how that would pan out as far as the person defending themselves.:confused:

John828
November 21, 2008, 08:51 AM
A fake gun is just as much a perceived threat as a real gun. Think about the regrettable LEO shootings where a kid with a fake gun gets shot. They were justified.

FMF
November 21, 2008, 08:53 AM
even with a fake gun, if it's perceived as real (as just about any imitation firearm can be) I'd think an armed response would be justified. Who's going to wait to find out if someone's gun is real?

RKBABob
November 21, 2008, 08:59 AM
A fake gun is usually treated as real if it is used in the commission of a crime, and places any victim in fear of their life.


Edited to add: Wow, two people just beat me to it.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
November 21, 2008, 09:00 AM
That's good to know.

I agree, you really don't want to wait to find out the hard way that the gun IS the REAL THING!

Corporal K
November 21, 2008, 09:13 AM
knockonit,

You may consider getting her into a self-defense class, something realistic like Krav Maga. It wouldn't have helped in this situation, but this incident turned out "ok" (notice I out that in quotes), and she might need a morale-booster.

Sinixstar
November 21, 2008, 01:53 PM
If you pop someone holding a gun with a tazer, can the current (which runs over the skin) be transferred to the backstrap and the rest of the gun and ammo and possibly setting off the primers?

Alan

I would be more concerned about the involuntary reactions that come with getting hit with all that current. You pretty much lose control over your muscles, and they have a habbit of going into spasms and reacting unpredictibly. An involuntary trigger pull would not be out of the question.

armedandsafe
November 22, 2008, 01:08 AM
The electrical discharge will not set off the primers. It would take several minutes to heat the primers, gun, cases and all to the point of ignition. The electricity itself will not set them off.

The muscular reaction of the hand holding the gun would be likely to cause one of two actions. Either the gun will be dropped or the gun will be convulsively squeezed, possibly firing the gun.

Pops

model4006
November 22, 2008, 01:31 AM
yeah i dont see how a taser would have helped her situation, if she even reached for it she could have been shot.

i know how you/she feels though, and i would get her the taser too. on my campus (state university in ohio) you cant carry, but you can keep one "locked" in your car. maybe you could read over their rulebook again and find something like that hopefully.

Ron-Bon
November 22, 2008, 01:54 AM
Just try to calm down and thank God that she is okay

bgeddes
November 22, 2008, 02:16 AM
In my state, with a carry permit, defending someone in grave danger is justification for the use of lethal force.

So, if I see the A-hole threatening said young lady with a firearm, can I run a tire up his back? Vehicles are considered lethal weapons in court so would that be justified?

BTW, Good job dad!! Sounds like your daughter learned a lot of self preservation from her lessons in life. Glad she's OK.

knockonit
November 22, 2008, 06:36 PM
Yep basic same rules, can keep one locked in car, but the college is on Reservation land, and we all know here in ARizona what that means.

Anyway, had a friend teach her about the taser and use, and another associate run her thru some drills on driving defensively.
So we'll see.
Also have a few other folks tracking this fella down and see what the law is gonna do about it.
thanks for all the comments.
rj

wep45
November 22, 2008, 10:29 PM
the number of unleashed crazies out there is alarming, and the population of this group is growing:uhoh:..........welcome to the new america:eek:

scythefwd
November 22, 2008, 11:32 PM
I would be more concerned about the involuntary reactions that come with getting hit with all that current. You pretty much lose control over your muscles, and they have a habbit of going into spasms and reacting unpredictibly. An involuntary trigger pull would not be out of the question.

Since I believe the current is AC (DC is much more destructive at lower amps) you are right about the spasms. I would bet that there would possibly be more than one trigger pull, but if he only pulled once, could the current turn that gun into an "automatic", chamber, current induced bang, chamber, rinse, repeat, etc, bang...

scythefwd
November 22, 2008, 11:37 PM
thanks armdandsafe. I didn't know if the current itself could do it. I dont have the appropriate facilities to test that.

It wouldn't have to heat the whole gun though. It would only have to generate heat at the primer. If there is a gap between the primer and the housing, or a little crud, there will be some resistance. The arc jumping that resistance or the electricity pushing through resistance will cause heat. Tasers use 10,000 V at very low amps. I could picture this causing heat in a very thin piece of copper / brass very quickly. It doesn't have to heat the whole gun, just the bullet around the primer. Yes, the gun would act like a heat sink, but how well is that bolt face meeting with the case? Any gaps there that could spark? Just questions, have to have something to think about :)

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