IMPORTANT: 1911 desing lasts more than CZ-75/85 design? Berettas and Glocks too?


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Irfan
November 21, 2008, 05:38 PM
I hear and read at different gun-forums that there are so many 1911s that run on their original slide and frame for over 100,000 rounds! But at the same time you can't find anyone that has fired more than 100,000 rounds through his/her CZ-75/85. Glocks, at least in 9mm, last more than 100K rounds. Ted Nugent has personally fired 100K rounds through his Beretta 92 replacing the locking block once! What about CZ?

The reason why I'm asking this question is because I really like my CZ-85B. Yah, I really do! But sometimes I really worry about its durability. I want to shoot a lot and at the same time to have I pistol I can count on. It would be really expensive for me to move to .45 caliber and buy a 1911. Should I move to a CZ-75B? (it may be more durable than the 85 but I'm not sure)

The question is why does the 1911 design last more than the CZ-75/85 design even though it uses a more powerful round? Is it a better design or CZ just makes poor quality pistols? The cast frame may be a problem? Maybe that's the reason we don't see these pistols in the line of duty. Maybe you get what you pay for.

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Schofield3
November 21, 2008, 05:43 PM
Your CZ is fine, Iím sure it will shoot as many rounds as you can put through it, nothing to lose sleep overÖ.;)

everallm
November 21, 2008, 06:20 PM
You have the remember that every post on a gun site is always truthful, verifiable and accurate and the poster is invariably, steely eyed with 20-20 vision, washboard abs and capable of shooting the bollocks off a gnat at 25 yards, off hand, blindfolded and with a weapon they've never touched before.......Oh and they have clean minty breath too.

1911 and Glock fans will always tell you their product is the one that God shoots, lasts forever and is the one True Holy Grail.

CZ folks response is generally, "I love it, it feels good, is reliable but you have to hold it and shoot it first".

Lets say you shoot twice a week, dumping 100 rounds each session, each week every week. Circa 10,000 rounds

Rounds at about $240/1000 (prices from ammoman)

Cost approx $2400 per year......better start reloading, costs should halve.

10 years to 100,000, costs of ammo alone between $12K and $24K

The point is, the CZ range pistol is good, it's reliable and the cost is the smallest part of total cost of ownership.

Z71
November 21, 2008, 06:26 PM
Believe me, the 1911 design is just as mortal as any other auto-pistol design. Meaning that a 1911 will break with the best or worst of them.

Part of the 1911's mortality stems from the myriad of manufacturers and quality differences between them.

True, a 1911 could conceivably last a 100,000 plus shots, but so too should a quality pistol of more modern design.

mljdeckard
November 21, 2008, 06:27 PM
It's not a question of whether the slide and frame won't crack, it's a question of if the rest of the setup will hold up or not. The big pieces might well last forever, but if you have to drop all the guts and start over again anyway, you might as well be buying a new frame and slide.

Blue .45
November 21, 2008, 07:51 PM
I hear and read at different gun-forums that there are so many 1911s that run on their original slide and frame for over 100,000 rounds! But at the same time you can't find anyone that has fired more than 100,000 rounds through his/her CZ-75/85.

You are making an assumption here. Just because nobody has tried it yet, doesn't mean it can't be done. This assumption, has led you to the following assumption:

The question is why does the 1911 design last more than the CZ-75/85 design even though it uses a more powerful round?

Lets say you shoot twice a week, dumping 100 rounds each session, each week every week. Circa 10,000 rounds

Rounds at about $240/1000 (prices from ammoman)

Cost approx $2400 per year......better start reloading, costs should halve.

10 years to 100,000, costs of ammo alone between $12K and $24K

The point is, the CZ range pistol is good, it's reliable and the cost is the smallest part of total cost of ownership.

Very good point. For the cost of 2000rds. of ammo, one could buy an extra CZ if they are concerned they might wear out the first. Personally. I don't think a second one would be needed.

krs
November 21, 2008, 08:06 PM
Should I move to a CZ-75B? (it may be more durable than the 85 but I'm not sure)

That would be no.

The 85 is simply the ambidextrous version of the 75.

BCRider
November 21, 2008, 10:13 PM
It's all about where you read the material, how well the guns are cared for and what the shoot through them.

In researching the Berreta 92FS I found references to the breakage issues with the early production but at the same time I found enough statements posted by folks calling themselves ex or serving soldiers that said they were more than happy to get rid of the clunky old 1911's that would jam every other shot. Now who knows what trials and tribulations that these service pistols recieved but the point is that with some care there's no reason why your 85 can't see the 100K mark. It may be starting to rattle a little from slide wear and some of the internal parts may get replaced along the way but that is their nature and it would appear that the 1911's, Glocks, Steyr's and all the rest will see the same wear and need for component replacement as they go through life. After all it is the nature of mechanical objects subjected to high stress to wear here and there.

Also keep in mind that your CZ is not some custom made gun. You need to compare apples to apples. Comparing it to a custom CNC'd 1911 using all the very choicest metals may not be fair. But at 1/4 to 1/5 the price of those custom shop 1911's that may last twice to three times the life of your CZ who's getting the better deal? And even with this point there's no guarantee that these custom specials will last that long.

jpwilly
November 22, 2008, 12:53 AM
Odd's are the 1911 will break or elongate the barrel link and probably the slide stop long before 100,000rnds. Doesn't mean it can't be done. Cars have driven 1,000,000 miles too but certainly not every car.

1911 guy
November 22, 2008, 11:03 AM
There is a trick to getting to 100,000 rounds. Know your gun.
1) Clean and inspect it periodically. Replace any excessively worn parts before they damage something else.

2) Replace your recoil spring every two thousand rounds, your mainspring about every 10,000.

3) use only factory ammo or YOUR reloads. "Some guy at the range" is not a good source for ammo. Neither are reloads sold by the range staff. Ammo is either factory or reloaded. Shoot only YOUR reloads.

4) Field strip and clean after each use, detail strip only once or twice a year. Excessive detail stripping can lead to wear on parts that don't need to be worn. Twice a year if the pistol sees high round count (over 10,000 rounds), once a year if less than that.

5) Avoid +P and +P+ ammo except for CCW. Don't give your pistol a regular diet of it, even if it's rated for it.


Nothing can stop the gun gods from getting angry with you and breaking your widget. Doing these things, however, can increase your odds of making your pistol last. More than one gunshop owner thinks I shoot too much, but my two hard use 1911s keep going. So will your CZ.

Mike OTDP
November 22, 2008, 11:34 AM
Good advice. I would also add that the Sig P210 is often regarded as being exceptionally durable.

The Lone Haranguer
November 22, 2008, 02:52 PM
Very, very few of us are going to put 2,000 boxes of ammo through our guns. ;)

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