Interesting Gun used in crime detailed on the Discovery channel


Futo Inu
September 19, 2003, 12:19 AM
It was one of those Tues. night shows, The New Detectives or FBI Files - TND, I think.

Anyway, seems peeps kept finding nude bodies of prostitutes who'd been shot through the head and tied up; .38 slug found in head. Funny things were, the bullet entry wound was keyholed, though seemingly made at close range, and there were NO rifling marks on the bullet.

Well, after some investigation, they find the guy, a former cop, in his "lair" - a warehouse he lived in, and also found a .38 revolver, WITH THE BARREL REMOVED. He was just shooting his victims straight from the cylinder - explained both the keyholing and lack of rifling marks. He also used nylon-coated bullets for some reason, but not sure why - there wouldn't have been any marks had he used jacketed or lead bullets either. But anyway, interesting...doubt he got much velocity from the gun, but didn't need it for execution style murders.

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Mike Irwin
September 19, 2003, 12:21 AM
The "nylon coated" bullets were probably Federal Nyclads...

September 19, 2003, 01:17 AM
Probably used em cause that what he had handy.


September 19, 2003, 01:23 AM
You don't really need the lead bullet. The primer by itself or in conjunction with the power is enough to kill someone. To see for yourself, take a primed casing (no bullet or powder) and fire it at a piece of cardboard. Lots of energy.

September 19, 2003, 12:32 PM
Yeah....but with a bullet and service load you actually get some effective range.


September 19, 2003, 10:29 PM
This isn't really new.

I once saw a Colt Single Action "Belly gun" dating from the 1880's.
The trigger was removed and the front of the trigger guard was cut off, leaving only a trigger-like portion at the rear to use as a finger grip.

The barrel was removed completely, and the gun was to be fired by "slip firing" the hammer.

This was owned by a lawman who apparently used it as a hip pocket backup.

Not very accurate, but when the "muzzle" is in somebodies stomach, it doesn't have to be.

Phantom Warrior
September 19, 2003, 10:52 PM
My best friend used to carry Nyclads in his .38. If I recall correctly, the purpose of the nylon is to reduce lead dust in the air and possibly build up in the barrel.
Oh, there was nothing wrong with the Nyclads. The reason that the sentence is past tense is that he switched carry guns.

September 20, 2003, 11:24 AM
I used to load my old S&W CS9 with Federal Nyclads and they were very accurate. They use a very SOFT lead bullet for maximum expansion on impact and the plastic tips makes feeding much more reliable. The law isn't fond of them as the plastic covers up most of the rifling groove marks of the barrel making ballistic tests next to impossible.

Jake 98c/11b
September 20, 2003, 02:31 PM
HKmp5SD, I don't think I would ever concider the force of a primer alone to be lethal, or even a serious concern to anything but unprotected eyes. A blank can sure as hell kill you but there is quite a bit more to a blank. Even still a blank load needs to be a near contact shot to be cause for concern.

Johnny Guest
September 20, 2003, 09:48 PM
Guess I missed that episode.

They - - Or some similar program - - did one in which a guy was shooting people from ambush with a .35 Whelen rifle. This is unusual enough that they were able to "make" the shooter fairly easily.

Really hated to see that one. I've been looking for a .35 W, and I guess everyone I asked about it had seen that program - - Kept asking me if I wanted to be another "oddball sniper." :mad:


September 21, 2003, 01:20 AM
Was bogmindled last year when stopped at a fuel station/general store a few miles from my place and saw that they had 35 Whelen ammo on the shelf.


September 21, 2003, 01:33 AM
.38 Special from a no barreled Model 36 J frame would have bout same energy as same cartridge from an auto with 1 1/2" barrel.

.38 Special from a no barreled Model 14 K frame would have bout the same energy as same cartridge from an auto with 1 3/4" barrel.

Either way, lots of punch. Lack of rifling probably limit good shot placement to 7-10 yds.



September 21, 2003, 08:59 AM
Blanks can be very fatal. They are what killed Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) on a movie set.

Black Snowman
September 21, 2003, 09:54 AM
There's more to the Brandon Lee incedent than that. They didn' t have an armorer on that movie and so were using REAL guns and not the converted guns they were supposed to be. One of the "for show" rounds in a revolver wasn't crimped enough and the bullet fell into the barrel. Later when the blanks came round it shot the bullet out lodging it next to his spinal cord.

I won't go into it any more here because it's not related to the thread. You can find detailed info elsewhere on the web. I'll just leave it at that.

September 21, 2003, 08:42 PM
Jetman has his stories confused. Brandon Lee's case was a series of stupid events. But there was another case of an actor "playing " he put the 44mag, loaded with blanks, against his head and pulled the trigger. The wax wad penetrated his skull. As for Nyclads I only used it once a rabbit with a 9mm, expanded to 3/4" !!

4v50 Gary
September 21, 2003, 08:46 PM
Nyclads were first produced to address the airborne lead problem on the range. However, the trend has now included haz-mat removal from the range itself so it's very possible that in the near future some LE ranges will be going to newer non-lead ammo.

September 23, 2003, 05:12 PM
Jon Erik Hexum was the actor that killed himself with a .44mag blank.

IIRC he was frustrated with filming delays so he put the gun to his head and blammo.


September 23, 2003, 06:49 PM
I would imagine that frangible bullets from an unmodified revolver would serve the same purpose of frustrating attempts to match specific rifling marks with a suspect's firearm. Clearly, the lack of rifling marks on the bullets allowed the authorities to match them to the unbarreled revolver. Rather ironic.

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