[Madjohn]

since im not to sure about getting my ccp yet i was wondering about any legal weapons like batons and stuff like that i can carry legally with ought a permit and if the situation arose were i had to use it wouldn't get into any trouble with the police.

[hso]

First off, whether it is legal for you to carry a baton, or other non-firearm weapon, depends upon the state you live in. Every state has different laws.

Second, it can be perfectly legal for you to carry something and still get into trouble with the police based solely on your behavior and/or environment.

[Madjohn]

i live in PA i know you can carry pepper spray legally but thats the only one i know.

[J. Jay]

In most states you can have a baseball bat in the trunk IF you have a glove and ball with.

[hso]

Madjohn,

Read through the "classroom" thread. Amongst the silly crap is good advice on perfectly normal items you can have with you all the time that can serve as good SD tools.

[mercop]

Your primary mechanical force option needs to be something that can be carried in the hand even in the most prohibitive environments to be used alone or transition to something else.

The two items that fit that bill are flashlights and pens. I prefer the Surefire L2 since it's size mimics a kubaton.

Whether legal or not an expandable baton can be a PIA to carry at times and attracts lots of attention when used.

[Todd A]

I like pens and lights. They are not weapons at all, but can be used to increase the effect of your strike.

A blow with a small flashlite against a hard target is better than a bare hand.
I have had a "Boxers Fracture" once in my life. It wasn't fun and my right hand was useless for days. Had it happened in a for keeps self defense stituation I would not be typing this now. And I am not a wuss,I can take pain.


If you are able to,get some training with whatever you decide to carry. If not at least practice deploying your chosen item and do some strikes on a improvised bag.It is better than just putting them in your pocket and feeling safe.

[KINGMAX]

Get you a three or four D-Cell MAG-LIGHT flashlight. Why do you think the 'boys-in-blue' carry them in the middle of the day when the sun is out.

[mercop]

Striking with the light or pen is actually a very small part of what I do with it.

[Todd A]

Yes I know that they can be used for locks,takedowns,pain compliance, pressure points etc.....

Since I am not going to take someone into custody, or try to modify his behavior I don't plan to use them in that manner.

I simply want to stop them as fast as possible. To me they just make strikes more effective.

[mercop]

Me neither and that is now what I am talking about. I don't believe in pressure points and pain compliance for self defense. I am talking about front chokes and hooking using the tool. It is the fastest choke there is (blood not air).

[Todd A]

Hooking is good,and is why I have a "stick" available for each hand.

As to the front choke, just how "fast" is it in real life? If presented with an open shot to the throat area I feel a strike to the adams apple would be a near instant stop. Or would a choke be "more" effective?

[bikerdoc]

I carry pens and lights, gun and knives, but my primary every day go to weapon is my cane.
A good distance impact weapon that can difuse a situation you should have realized was developing and avoided.
Quick effective use will let you get out of dodge quickly.
Depending on the situation - and this is where training and thinking come in targets are eyes, throat, groin clavicle, elbows, knees,wrists, skull...
you get the idea.
one instructor uses the old bayonet technique, thrust,parry, slash. Others teach to snap it like the old b-29 baton. there are others.
Me, Im lucky to have a good natured son in law ( ex marine now leo) who pads up and presents me with diferent scenarios to practice.
good fun, then I got feed him and watch him drink my beer

[woof]

Put a bow on the baseball bat and say it's a gift.

[onebigelf]

Walk with a limp. A cane is perfectly legal, and, if you learn to use it, can be a handy and useful item that beats the heck out of a collapsible baton. I have a bum knee ;-) I've often thought someone should make a better self defense umbrella. So much potential there.

John

[22-rimfire]

Even with a firearm and a permit, you may still get into trouble with law enforcement if you ever have to use them or it. A handgun permit only gives you the right to carry, not a blank check for self defense. I keep a large Mag light in my vehicle should I ever need it. They really help if you have to do some walking or car tinkering at night.

[mercop]

Todd, I have found using a stick to hook is stronger that your hands. It seems that when your thumb is to the sky you are stronger than if your palm is to the ground. Think about it in reference to climbing the peg board in a gym.

I have found strikes to the throat hard to land for two reasons. One is that under stress our chins come down to our chest. The other is that people tend to aim at the chin and strike that instead with variable results. If you do go for the throat be sure to hit high in the chest and skip up and into the throat.

Depending on where you are when you deliver it a strike to the throat will break only break balance forward and backward, fail to put you to the outside and may not negate the attack you are defending against. Choking with the pen has the effect of corkscrewing the person into the ground. Unlike other chokes it is also very innocuous.

[BigBuckMaster]

i have a pair of blackthorn Eskrima sticks in my truck, and most of the time i just use one. got in a fight once, hit a guy in the larynx and collapsed it with the stick. he would have died if i had not called the EMS guys.

personally, i would not go with a large mag light, but somthing more simpel, ie a ColdSteel Koga or RPG Thrower. the Koga is a small baton (7.5 in) that you hold so only the ends (rounded and very hard) stick out. i own this and carry it around (also have one in each car and in my beadroom drawer). they have another verson that has pointed ends. the RPG thrower is a foot long 1055 steel dart that is sharpened on both ends with a weight at the end. throw it like a base ball.

i own a few of ColdSteel's non-bladed toys, like the Indian War Club (looks like the real thing- very nice), a Irish Blackthorn Shillelagh (walking stick, kinda), and thier african Sjamboks- it can be used as a whip, cattel prod, and a baton. it is hippo hide wrapped around a fire hardened sitck.

also you might not want to underestamate the knuckel dusters (brass knuckles). gots a few of them scattered round the house and cars. i also have one in my wallet.

[mercop]

How about these-
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=409321

And because it is usually metal knuckles that are prohibited I designed and had some polymer ones made, they are called Jaw Jackers.

[mercop]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=409321

Try this again

[MadMercS55]

I normally try to carry a folder that can double as an impact device. Something like the Benchmade AFCK, Emerson CQC8 or similar. When held in the closed position, they have been effective for me in an impact role using the top or butt of the folded knife. The new pens from Benchmade and others I believe have this in mind as well. I prefer the knife as a non-firearm option over most else, since it gives me both lethal and non-lethal options overall. I also keep a collapsible baton in my vehicle, but since leaving LE work, I've not much occasion to employ it. It is a pain to carry overall and is generally a prohibited offensive weapon according to PA law.

[Carl Levitian]

I think its a good idea for any non firearm weapon you may carry/use, to be a funtional item at a non weapon task. Why give some politicly ambitous deputy DA something to blow up out of wack?

A dedicated impact tool like a blackjack, asp, brass/aluminum/plastic knuckles or fist load tools can backfire on you in the aftermath. All depends on the cop, and I preffer not to go that route.

Its going to be very hard to make a case if you use a pen or AA mini mag, vs something with a name like jaw jacker or death dealer, or skull crusher.

Like it or not, and I don't, we live in weird times.

[BigBlock]

Even with a firearm and a permit, you may still get into trouble with law enforcement if you ever have to use them or it. A handgun permit only gives you the right to carry, not a blank check for self defense.

If deadly force is justified, it doesn't matter where you are or what tool you use to kill a bad guy. You may; however, get in trouble if that particular tool isn't allowed in the area you're in. But killing bad guys is legal everywhere in the US, with any tool you can find, as long as the person truely is a "bad guy".

For example, if you protect your house with an illegal machine gun, and kill an intruder...you should not have a problem with the "killing" part, but rather, with the illegal weapon you own.

[mercop]

Back to the flashlight or pen, they may be used for their legitimate use, as a self defense tool and/or as a bridge to a different tool that you cannot walk around carrying in your hand like a gun or knife.

As my friend Kelly Worden says "one for throwing and one for going"

[alaskanativeson]

Walk with a limp. A cane is perfectly legal, and, if you learn to use it, can be a handy and useful item that beats the heck out of a collapsible baton. I have a bum knee ;-) I've often thought someone should make a better self defense umbrella. So much potential there.

John
It's expensive, but this umbrella (http://www.real-self-defense.com/umbrella.html) is very stout.

[Pussywillow]

I alternate the Cold Steel stuff...

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm195/Psychobastard_bucket/CSYawarasEvenSmaller.jpg


I especially like the Sharkie because it's a pen, albeit an obviously oversized one. I can carry that on a plane. I can justify having it in a pocket.

I also occasionally carry a full sized, Blackthorne walking stick. I'm looking at getting one or two more of those. The walking sticks tend to be obvious & on more than one occasions have encouraged otherwise over-zealous street personalities to leave me alone.

I don't waste my efforts on come-alongs. They take time & two hands. I always assume I'm dealing with more than one individual.

I think the impact flashlights are a nice idea... though they're design probably classifies them as "evil" in some metropolitan jurisdictions.

[conwict]

For example, if you protect your house with an illegal machine gun, and kill an intruder...you should not have a problem with the "killing" part, but rather, with the illegal weapon you own.

Some members here who have served jury duty feel differently.

Think about a case with no witnesses. Your word against a dead or injured person's, or against the cops who slammed you to the ground, maybe claimed you resisted when you didn't really - it was all the adrenaline that kept you tensed up. Do you really think all jury members are able to understand what they're dealing with, and how to be "fair?"

Now think about all the info they're fed by the media..."evil weapons"..."weapons that should be outlawed because they kill"...that could tip the scales away from your favor.