Power Extractor My A**


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model4006
November 22, 2008, 08:40 PM
so i recently bought a para ordinance s16-40 limited. pretty pricy gun but i wanted a really high quality .40 cal 1911 for target shooting. what i got was a jam-o-matic. the only gun ive seen jam more was a taurus pt 111 my friend had. i can NOT believe this. not only does it double feed (see title of this post) but it will also jam on the way to battery, (round sorta crooked and stuck on its way in) and also i got one stovepipe. today it jammed 4 times in 50 rounds (all double feeds), which for me, for a 1300 dollar gun, is totally outrageous.

im really frustrated that para's claim to fame the "power extractor" seems to be the problem. what else causes double feeds? i thoroughly cleaned and properly oiled the gun too.

i guess monday ill call para and start the whole process of sending it back, i hope it doesnt take forever.

no real point to this post other than to complain about my expensive junky gun, and to see if anyone else has had problems with para's. or if youve had any experience with their customer satisfaction.

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General Geoff
November 22, 2008, 09:11 PM
I'm in the process of buying an S16-40 Limited. While your post is a bit worrying to me, chances are likely it's just a freak thing, as I've heard so much good about this gun. Don't fret yet, I'm sure Para will make it right for you. :)

From what I understand, most of these problems come back to ammunition and magazines. Do you have the full 16-round mags, or the neutered 10 rounders? What kind of ammo are you using? How does the fit & finish feel between the slide and the frame?

longdayjake
November 22, 2008, 09:22 PM
What ammo are you using. You seem to have bad luck. What exactly is a taurus 111?

mljdeckard
November 22, 2008, 09:28 PM
If you search for Para problems, you will find a few horror stories, but I'm not necessarily convinced that it is pandemic. A friend of mine just ordered a custom Hi-cap from them, and the slide had been squeezed in a vise so hard, it was out of spec, the guide rod/plug wouldn't release to strip it. When we finally did get it apart, a flat edge in the round cavity was visible. They fixed this quickly and without argument, and reimbursed my friend for shipping.

The difference between your problem and THAT problem is, that one was obvious, and it's pretty difficult to imagine how it could have been caused by the user on a brand new gun. Your problem is more vague, and I could see a test of wills to get it fixed, free, and fast.

JoeSlomo
November 22, 2008, 09:30 PM
While I have never owned a .40, I hear from my fellow competitive shooters that they can be temperamental to get up and running.

BHP FAN
November 22, 2008, 09:34 PM
Too bad you didn't pick up TWO RIA GI .45's instead! Seriously though,I'm sorry for your misfortune.

model4006
November 22, 2008, 11:21 PM
the ammo was independence, 180 gr fmj. the mags are 10 rd because gander mtn lied to me (another chapter to the nightmare) and they are ordering me the hi cap mags.

i dont see how mags could be causing the double feeds.

the fit and finish on this gun is the nicest ive ever seen. it doesnt feel sloppy or anything. the slide is really hard to pull back, like way harder than any other .40 i have felt, but it doesnt feel wrong, just like its got a stiff recoil spring.

taurus pt 111 is a small 9mm, and that was a friends, not mine.

1911 guy
November 23, 2008, 12:22 AM
I hate to tell you after the fact, but Para Ordnance makes nothing but crap. You are just one of many with stories similar to this. I was one, too. Bought all the hype, spent my money, got a hunk of worthless steel. Well, some steel and a lot of plastic.

I know of two gunshops that refuse to sell them now, one used to be a big Para supporter. Quality went into the gutter, Bon stopped selling them. He won't even order one for you if you ask.

You'll also likely find that Para will be about as helpful as a brick wall in resolving this. They've got your money, they're happy. You'll also discover that they will talk about out of spec parts as being somewhat common and no big deal. Of course not, they've got your money.

Search my username and "Para Ordnance" in this forum, I posted my own tale of carnage and woe about two years ago. I wouldn't own another Para if they paid me to take it. I'd trade the worthless thing for something that actually worked. Maybe upgrade to a pointy stick.

atblis
November 23, 2008, 12:40 AM
chances are likely it's just a freak thing
Uhhh, probably not actually.

The power extractor refers to the manner in which it extracts money from your pocket.

jpwilly
November 23, 2008, 12:43 AM
I was told by a dealer when looking at a Para 1911 double stack just two weeks ago that he had a lot of complaints about reliablity and many had to be returned to be fixed.

On the other hand I have a Taurus PT145 Mil Pro 45acp that has not had a single failure to feed any SD ammo etc thrown at it over the last 1.5years of owning and carrying it. Go figure!

Snarlingiron
November 23, 2008, 12:58 AM
Well, all I can say is Glock 22, 23, 27 or 35.

jpwilly
November 23, 2008, 01:17 AM
^^ Someone has Glocks on the brain. While they are a good pistol they aren't for everyone including me. I prefer 1911's for 45's and CZ75's for wonder nines.

Sunray
November 23, 2008, 01:32 AM
Jamming is caused by the mag or the ammo. If the ammo doesn't have enough energy to cycle the action properly, the ejector won't work properly. Double feeding is a mag issue.
Change ammo first. Then look at the mag lips, then the recoil spring. Most likely an ammo thing though.
Contact Para anyway. They're not highly thought of, up here, either, but not for the same reason. Paras are made in Canada, but they ignore the Canadian market, such as it is, pretty much entirely. For example, Canadians are not eligible for any of their promotions.

General Geoff
November 23, 2008, 07:03 PM
the ammo was independence, 180 gr fmj. the mags are 10 rd because gander mtn lied to me (another chapter to the nightmare) and they are ordering me the hi cap mags.

i dont see how mags could be causing the double feeds.

the fit and finish on this gun is the nicest ive ever seen. it doesnt feel sloppy or anything. the slide is really hard to pull back, like way harder than any other .40 i have felt, but it doesnt feel wrong, just like its got a stiff recoil spring.

Wait till you get some 16 rounders before you pass judgment. Also, with the real stiff spring, try some real hot .40 loads. Pick up a couple of boxes of doubletap .40S&W ammo and see how that works for you.

If the hot ammo works without issue, then you just need to get a slightly softer spring.

mattk
November 23, 2008, 07:38 PM
Reliability has never been a strong point with Para guns.

They will however do their best to fix your gun.
It sounds like you may have two problems.
1. Your chamber maybe too tight.
2. Your extractor has too much tension on it.

jocko
November 23, 2008, 07:53 PM
should a person who spends a grand plus hav eto put up with this type of poor quality. Not just with Para's. There are others out there that don't do any better.

I bought a new Para Carry 9. the most accurate handgun I owned at the time. loved the LDA trigger system and would say today it is the best -- bar none.

BUT I had to send mine back 3 times in less than 6 months of ownership for issus.

The alloy frame started to chip and peel right after the first 100 rounds. The gun looked a 100 years old.

I think the Para service in Tn tried their best to make my Carry 9 work correctly, but just never could get it right. I peddled it .

One just should not have to jack with these 1911's like I read so much many have to do to get them running right. We tend to blame the ammo, mags and what ever but the blame has to lay with Para Inc ...A shame to..

atblis
November 23, 2008, 09:48 PM
should a person who spends a grand plus hav eto put up with this type of poor quality. Not just with Para's. There are others out there that don't do any better.
The better question is why do people spend a grand plus knowing they'll have to put up that type of poor quality? Para's issues are well known.

model4006
November 26, 2008, 07:38 PM
im not really fond of buying some hot ammo (price), but ill be more than happy to load up some fairly hot rounds and try them out.

it does feel like the recoil spring is awfully stiff.

first thing is first, hotter ammo, and the 16 round mags i have already ordered. If those dont fix the problem, im going to send it back.

i had no idea para's were known for reliability problems, i NEVER would have bought one. i read quite a bit online and didnt see anybody complaining. next time ill look longer...

Jim K
November 26, 2008, 07:48 PM
Let me rephrase something I have said many times. A company's customer service should be judged not on whether they fix their guns but on how often they have to.

I have a feeling of disgust when I read that someone has had to send a pistol back a half dozen times but "it is a great gun and Suzie at customer service is nice to talk to."

I think the word for that guy is "sucker." He'll probably buy another gun from them just so he can continue to flirt with Suzie.

Jim

glove
November 26, 2008, 08:48 PM
My Taurus PT140 and PT-24/7 have been 100%.:) can't say much about the para ordinance.:barf:
Dave Z

General Geoff
November 29, 2008, 12:05 PM
Bump to see how the OP's gun runs with hotter ammo. :)

Walkalong
November 29, 2008, 03:06 PM
never mind

geronimo509
November 29, 2008, 10:37 PM
I jsut bought a para p14 Gun rights model. It is perfect. no problems whatsoever. at 850$ brand new. You prolly paid way too much and that is your gun dealers fault. I went to cabelas and it costs the sticker price of 1150. By gunsmith and gun shop owner said he can call para and order it for me and it will cost 850. With any product that is sold to a ton of people there are bound to be issues with some of them. You must have some bad luck.

aikidoka-mks
November 29, 2008, 10:46 PM
The only problem with my Warthog was that the recoil spring assembly broke during the 300 round break in. They replaced it no questions asked and it's been fine, though I've only put about 20 rounds mixed hp and ball ammo through so far. The only failures to feed were during the break in when I went past the recommended cleaning period of 100 rounds just to see how long it would go.

geronimo509
November 29, 2008, 11:04 PM
i put 1000 rounds through it for my break in, in one sitting, no cleaning, just a good lube in the beginning. this is the first pistol that i had that had no problems during the break in. the para p14 45 gun rights is the finest gun ive own and ever shot. I would recommend it to everyone. in fact my gun smith and shop (Golden Trigger) in Emmaus they have another one for sale for 850 and im thinking of getting my buddy a brother lol

geronimo509
November 29, 2008, 11:14 PM
Golden Trigger Gun shop is highly recommended. But I jsut want to say that i trust all of my guns with my life. I carry the colt, kimber, and para based on the way on dress strong side IWB. Ive heard a lot of terrible things about kimber too but everyone i know with one absolutely loves them. Same for PARAs

General Geoff
November 30, 2008, 01:04 AM
geronimo, I'm actually going to order my S16.40 at the Golden Trigger. He quoted me $1179 for it.


The MSRP for the P14 is $899, MSRP for the S16 is $1229. Probably a significant leap in manufacturing/finishing costs.

geronimo509
November 30, 2008, 11:14 AM
Para's website has it a little higher than that. At places like Cabelas the cost is pretty much the same as the website. Where did you find the $899 MSRP?

aikidoka-mks
November 30, 2008, 04:25 PM
Bud's Gun Shop online had a good price on my Warthog. Just be careful with the FFL transfer fee, I got a little screwed on that due to my lack of research with options in my area.

bigmike45
December 1, 2008, 11:18 AM
I recently picked up a LTC Lightweight with the power extractor and it has worked flawlessly so far. The gun's caliber is 9mm with a 4" barrel and I just hit the 500 round mark. I hope it holds up since there is no way to replace it with an conventional type extractor, that I am aware of anyway and I really like having the larger claw to grab more of the rim upon extraction.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/LTC9NEWGRIP.jpg

geronimo509
December 3, 2008, 10:26 AM
para p14 gun rights

88618

88619

geronimo509
December 3, 2008, 10:27 AM
big mike how did you get the picture so big. im kinda a newbie but i understand computers so with a little direction i can figure it out

geronimo509
December 3, 2008, 10:53 AM
SRY about the Picture post... here they are...

GregGry
December 3, 2008, 12:50 PM
The good thing about 1911s is that there are 10 people in line to buy it used off you.

jece
December 3, 2008, 04:32 PM
Is the Thompson Custom 1911 .45 worth $800.00+dollars? Since Kahr bought the rights to O-A/Thompson companies?

geronimo509
December 3, 2008, 04:46 PM
I dont know, however if you your going to spend 800$ i would recommend a para ordinance gun rights model for 850-900$. the single stack or the double stack. i have the double stack and i consider it to be one of my better gun purchases. thats with price, reliability, and the fact that they donate 25 dollars to the NRA legislative section. thats just my opinion

atblis
December 3, 2008, 05:03 PM
The good thing about 1911s is that there are 10 people in line to buy it used off you.
Don't Paras tend to take a pretty good hit on resale value though?

geronimo509
December 4, 2008, 09:43 AM
i have not looked into selling it, and i believe that i never will. you might be right. However, if that is what is going through your mind when you buy a firearm, you are probably buying it for the wrong reason.

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